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I like to see the larger IMac return to its glory in a new design using M2 Pro/Max SoC's.

I also like to see what the Mac Pro turns out to be like.
New iMac with large hard drive options, big screen and port variety. You know, like a normal iMac from three years ago. I don’t need a better screen. There’s nothing wrong with the screen—certainly don’t want a ‘better’ screen with higher prices. Nine years ago my decently speced 3 TB iMac cost about €3,100-3,200. I’m afraid this time a 4 TB (3 TB not available) will cost over €6K. Apple under Cook is so greedy.
 
What is the feasibility of having a Mac Pro where the SoC could be updated?

There could be a tray to unlock and easily swap out with the latest Apple Silicon.

The new trays with M4 Ultra (eg) would be available only for the Mac Pro, on the Apple Store.

Would allow you to keep the casing for more than 10 years, while staying up to date on the latest SoCs.

This would clearly differentiate the Mac Pro from the Mac Studio, too.
 
if that mac pro is true, it is such a letdown. it's basically an updated mac studio that allows for pcie cards? these days, many things can just plug into usb ports. even with industry grade components, the fact that it "only" has an Ultra chip is awful because the size of the machine gives it so much more legroom for processing power. if apple wants Mac Pro sales, they might as well just update the Mac Pro to have the latest xeon w chip and DDR5 memory. most companies would rather have that then a mac pro that failed to live up to its expectations

Make a comparison of a 24-core & 48-core Xeon desktop workstation. Your emotionalism may not align with what HP/Lenovo are offering.

It should be point by by point identical.

Also, a Mac mini M2 Pro outperforms a 2019 Mac Pro Xeon

 
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New iMac with large hard drive options, big screen and port variety. You know, like a normal iMac from three years ago. I don’t need a better screen. There’s nothing wrong with the screen—certainly don’t want a ‘better’ screen with higher prices. Nine years ago my decently speced 3 TB iMac cost about €3,100-3,200. I’m afraid this time a 4 TB (3 TB not available) will cost over €6K. Apple under Cook is so greedy.

Apple has not offered any Mac with a spinning disc HDD in over 2 years.

With your requirements you may be better served buying a refurbished 2020 iMac 27" 4TB that start at $2399.
 
Not sure why it's not on the roadmap here. It was slated to release in the Spring of 2023.
No, it was not slated for a release, nor was it slated to even exist. The ONLY things slated for release are things that Apple publicly announces a shipping date on; everything else is just rumor, speculation, and completely made-up B.S. by bloggers.
 
I would love for this to be true. I run two Dell 32" 8K displays now, but at 150% OS zoom (Windows). If Apple drops a 40-42" 8K Pro Display XDR that I could run at 100%, maybe I would be fine with one...
Well, I should have added...that any new MacPro will most certainly have to provide Thunderbolt 5 for those 8K capabilities and that proper implementation of TB5, and the yet-to-be-determined PCI-E implementation to accompany that, might well account for any delays beyond Tim Cook's 2022 deadline that we're seeing with this product launch.

8K HDR MILC cameras from Nikon, FujiFilm, Sony and Canon are already in the hands of indie/prosumer shooters (not to mention what's already been available from professional dedicated video production cameras) and I am certain that Apple will not let these markets go unattended for either FCP or their hardware.

My expectations for an iMac Pro is that Apple will repurpose their 32" XDR Pro Display with more mini-LED zones and TB5.
 
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I just want a new iMac! is it that hard?!
You don't want that, you want a Mac Mini, a $300 4K display that you'll also use with your next computer and $400 still in your pockets :)
Ok, iMacs are really cool but they're not worth the extra money and losing the freedom of separating the computer and the display IMHO. Especially now that Mac Minis are cheap as bread and better than ever.
 
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iMac 24" M1 will turn 2 in April.

Last iMac 27" resfresh is approaching 3 years by August.

Selling an iMac 27" from 2009-2022 and iMac Pro from 2017-2021 is proof that there is demand for a large iMac.

I'm one of them. Hour preorders are accepted I'm ordering to replace mine that received its last Security Update over half a year ago.
If you want a larger screen, why don't you just get a monitor, then a Mac Mini or Studio to go with it, instead of waiting for a 27+inches iMac that might never arrive?
 
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If you want a larger screen, why don't you just get a monitor, then a Mac Mini or Studio to go with it, instead of waiting for a 27+inches iMac that might never arrive?
I like, many iMac owners love AIO and I have zero intentions to replacing its final Security Update.

If my use case changes then buy a new Mac.

So.... 2012 iMac 27" 22nm > 2023 iMac 27" 5nm > 2033 iMac 27" 0.5nm (A5)

If no new iMac appears in 2023 then I'll follow your suggestion of a Mac mini M3 3nm + Studio Display
 
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Why do I feel that the Mac Pro is going to be underwhelming?
Because there's nothing Apple can do to make it shine


In the past they'd put a really powerful CPU in it and take advantage of Intel's high end lines. Since they make their own silicon there's nothing they can do to make it impressive
 
Make a comparison of a 24-core & 48-core Xeon desktop workstation. Your emotionalism may not align with what HP/Lenovo are offering.

It should be point by by point identical.

Also, a Mac mini M2 Pro outperforms a 2019 Mac Pro Xeon

that comparison has major flaws. for one, it's a comparison between a 2023 consumer grade computer and a 2019 workstation/server grade computer that was made to be more expensive. also, that mac pro is worth nowhere near $15000. you only come out with $15000 if you do all the upgrades through apple's inflated prices and not by aftermarket parts. there's also the situation where the mac pro kinda "forces" you to use MPX modules at an extremely high premium due to Mac Pro design and apple inflation. a m2 pro mac mini outperforming a 2019 mac pro xeon is like your dominant hand being stronger than your other hand. it doesn't prove anything. apple is the one selling that so you can point your finger at apple instead. if you could custom build a Mac Pro with consumer grade PC parts, this Mac Pro would likely win in most benchmarks.
 
that comparison has major flaws. for one, it's a comparison between a 2023 consumer grade computer and a 2019 workstation/server grade computer that was made to be more expensive. also, that mac pro is worth nowhere near $15000. you only come out with $15000 if you do all the upgrades through apple's inflated prices and not by aftermarket parts. there's also the situation where the mac pro kinda "forces" you to use MPX modules at an extremely high premium due to Mac Pro design and apple inflation. a m2 pro mac mini outperforming a 2019 mac pro xeon is like your dominant hand being stronger than your other hand. it doesn't prove anything. apple is the one selling that so you can point your finger at apple instead. if you could custom build a Mac Pro with consumer grade PC parts, this Mac Pro would likely win in most benchmarks.
Then by your logic you should look elsewhere for a solution that fits your use case.

With how Apple prioritizes refresh of a Pro desktop without PCIe expansion slots (2013, 2017 & 2022 models) means they do not have incentive to consider <50% of Mac Pro user needs (2012 & 2019 models).

That's why I urge you to present a 24-core & 48-core Xeon desktop workstation at $6k & $8k price points respectively that would have the raw performance of a $4k Mac Studio Ultra 64GB/1TB.

I've seen many comments here putting down the Ultra part's raw performance. They do not present a comparative Xeon desktop workstation alternative. They're comparing it to nothing.

Derogatorily calling it as a just a "Mac Pro with a Ultra chip". If it gets the job done then who cares if it isn't called a Xeon, Threadripper Pro or EPYC.

My 2021 iPhone 13 Pro Max's A15 Bionic 5nm chip outperforms my 2012 iMac 27" Core i7 22nm and it's just a smartphone SoC.

That impresses me! A SoC with a less than 6W TDP outperforms an Intel chip of more than 77W.
 
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i know what to expect from Apple this spring:
1. Expensive hardware
2. More expensive hardware
3. Most expensive hardware
Remember when we had to pay $9.95 for iOS software update. Thank god, that’s not happening. Some dark times!

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It would be amazing if Apple can release iPhone 14 Pro line up in Product Red, please. I've been waiting for this for a very long time now. Make it happen!
I understand that Apple will be releasing it in Product Plaid. Product Red is for Aids treatment and awareness. Product plaid is for awareness and treatment of those who are fashion challenged.

Remember the people who wear shorts with a tuxedo shirt and spinning/blinking neon green bow tie.
 
I just hope they get Joz, Ternus, or Fed to announce the headset — none of poor presenters they have been using just for the sake of diversity.
That’s quite inappropriate to suggest that the presenters were chosen for diversity reasons. They were chosen based on their respective fields of expertise within the company. That’s why, if you actually look at their titles on the screen rather than assume they’re unqualified, you’ll see that they’re VPs of different parts of the company.

With all that being said, none of the presenters are trained actors and that obviously shows. The white male actors are not consistently great either, so you bashing diversity makes zero sense and just reveals your worldview more than anything else.
 
Apple has not offered any Mac with a spinning disc HDD in over 2 years.

With your requirements you may be better served buying a refurbished 2020 iMac 27" 4TB that start at $2399.
I don't live in the US so I would pay more here, but right now I have a 2014 iMac with 4 TB internal, so for now this machine is fine. I just mean in the future if I ever wanted to upgrade to a newer machine and Apple brings out a larger iMac then I will very likely be priced out of the market, having used iMacs for 20 years. And refurb iMacs from Apple in my market are very hard to come by, especially 4 TB ones and they aren't new at this juncture either.
 
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I don't live in the US so I would pay more here, but right now I have a 2014 iMac with 4 TB internal, so for now this machine is fine. I just mean in the future if I ever wanted to upgrade to a newer machine and Apple brings out a larger iMac then I will very likely be priced out of the market, having used iMacs for 20 years.
What many do in your situation is just buy the $1299 iMac 24" M1 and an external 4TB USB3 drive.
 
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What many do in your situation is just buy the $1299 iMac 24" M1 and an external 4TB USB3 drive.
I don't want a smaller screen. My current machine is 27" iMac. And I want 4 TB internally. I've had 3 TB internal for nine years and upgraded to 4 TB internal as I wanted more. I have external storage, too, but prefer to use internal storage for my daily use. That's how I roll. I also have a better selection of ports than those 24" iMacs and don't like hubs or dongles. For now I'm fine. But if a larger iMac comes out in the future I hope it's priced in a way that people other than Tim Cook's rich friends can afford one.
 
I have at least 5 friends with 5K 27" iMacs who are beginning to lose the faith as their older machines begin to show their age. One has a screen with pink fringing so he won't consider a Studio Display as he's heard the panel is the same. Apple seems happy to lose these customers. If they were really going to split their customer base they could at least have given Mini users a cheaper 5K screen to avoid the scaling users encountered using 4K 3rd party monitors. Put simply I want a 27" 5k monitor with no sound, no webcam but WITH height adjustment. How hard is that? Well very it seems.
 
I don't want a smaller screen. My current machine is 27" iMac. And I want 4 TB internally. I've had 3 TB internal for nine years and upgraded to 4 TB internal as I wanted more. I have external storage, too, but prefer to use internal storage for my daily use. That's how I roll. I also have a better selection of ports than those 24" iMacs and don't like hubs or dongles.
The 3TB & 4TB that you bought was a HDD. Hence the cheap price.

Apple halted sale of HDDs for more than 2 years.

Most of Apple's customers would not buy it. A sign of that consumer behavior is Apple phasing it out that long ago.

You may have to adjust your expectations if you want to get a future iMac 27" replacement.

Odds are its I/O port selection will mirror that of a Mac mini M2 Pro or Mac Studio M1 Max.
 
Mac Pro silicon needs to get away from “Pro, Max, Ultra” etc. It just needs a starting CPU core option with multiple upgradable tiers, and same for GPU and RAM. I Realize that it may not happen this time, but needs to be the longer play for sure. Massive chips that won’t go in anything else by a long shot, even Mac Studio.
Yes, I agree. Using "pro, ultra, max and "whatever" is more than not helpful. I think maybe Apple wants it to be not so clear.

In ay case, no matter what they call it the M2 or M3 is not going to be a match for an Intel Xeon (or AMD Threadripper) coupled with Nvidia GPU. Apple has a lot of work to do on the high end. I doubt the new Mac Pro will compare with my 4-year old Linux PC.
 
What is the feasibility of having a Mac Pro where the SoC could be updated?

There could be a tray to unlock and easily swap out with the latest Apple Silicon.


It is technically feasible, but likely would be substantively different from what Apple did with the MP 2009-2012 models. Several points.

1. The tray will likely be large and complicated. 2009 tray was not a simple 'socket' like alternative. Neither did it plug into a commodity socket. The MP 2013 CPU was on a 'tray' also.

Neither one of those were a commodity part that Apple sold at highly affordable prices.


2. The SoC is quite likely going to serve as a "Black Hole" effect and pull more stuff onto the tray (besides the GPU). The SSD controller is in the SoC. So the SSD Modules connectors would likely get pulled back over also.
Since the GPU and Thunderbolt controllers, highly likely would also get at least a couple of TB and perhaps a HDMI socket attached to the card also. ( GPU outputs are often provisioned off the same 'card' that the GPU package is soldered to for good reasons. )

The RAM? Highly likely attached.

The System Management Controller (SMC) is relatively tightly coupled to the SoC (some tasks split between the two) so it too.

The old MP 2009 era board had the "Southbridge" on the logic board.

upload_2019-7-3_20-39-50-png.846515


The SoC pulls that across onto the 'tray' also. So instead of having just the ESI/DMI link across the tray edge you now have all of that 'fan out' from the Southbridge adding to the complexity of the tray connector.
( a contributing factor to why some of the I/O like display out and at least some Thunderbolt would be far easier just to run out the back end of the tray. )

The other offset would likely be that wouldn't get two x16 PCI-e v4 lanes run out to slots but into a two input PCI-e PLEX Switch (like on the MP 2019). Just to cut down on lanes have to traverse off the card. Run 32 lanes and then fan out on the logic board. Additionally, the PCI-e switch will serve as a 're-driver' since there are much more restrictive distance limits for PCI-e v4 (and up ... faster pragmatically gets shorter. ).

Maybe another eight other x1 PCI-e v4 off the tray to do stuff like the 10GbE , Wi-Fi , etc.

The Mac Pro 2009-2012 is a fairly tall system but ends up with only 4 slots. That is an internal space trade off. Apple probably would have to 'blow away' Slot 8 in a MP 2019 chassis to both put in a monster proprietary connector and allow enough 'tall' clearance for the large heatsink. ( instead of width of the chassis now have to consume height. )


3. All of this highly likely would not be longitudinally compatible. 2-3 years down the road Intel CPU sockets aren't compatible. That SMC controller is going to need to interact with the Power Management Controller. Generally DDR5 DIMMs don't fit in DDR3 sockets. Modularity, in and of itself, doesn't buy future computability.

Same baseline reason why SSD modules 3-5 years down the road probably won't work with a 5 year old SSD controller. (even if tried to shovel the SSD module connector to the main logic board , it only presents long term problems). The more evolutionary stick I/O try to run off the tray to drive down the costs of the tray , the more the tray will get fixed in time.

If try to run TBv4 out to ports that hand off the main logic board. Are those paths and edge PHYS logic packages going to work with TBv5 ? Probably not. Current USB4 paths going to work with future USB5 paths and PHYS? Probably not.



The new trays with M4 Ultra (eg) would be available only for the Mac Pro, on the Apple Store.

And when did Apple show huge interest in selling MP 2010 trays to 2009 folks? Or MP2013 trays to other 2013 folks? It is still the same company.

The 2009-2012 tray was largely a inventory cost saving measure by Apple to combine two sub-products into a single shared main logic board ( single socket and dual socket workstations sharing more designed components). It wasn't a super deep love infatuation with modularity just for modularity. Nor was it sell commodity computer component parts for next 5 years exercise. Most 2009-2010 era dual socket boards from competitors were larger ones where could fan out past the 8 DIMM slots that Apple provisioned. That tray capped it 8 because it has far less room than a conventional larger main logicboard.


Would allow you to keep the casing for more than 10 years, while staying up to date on the latest SoCs.

This would clearly differentiate the Mac Pro from the Mac Studio, too.

Even if got a tray it extremely likely would support 10 years of updates. Most likely Apple would move from one extremely proprietary tray socket to another once got the next Mn Ultra/Extreme update. The used tray market would last for 10 years, but Apple the container on active support for 10 years? Probably not. Apple's Vintage/Obsolete support policies start the countdown when the product is superceded and withdrawn from sales. Selling 'next gen' Mn Ultra/Extreme trays (and hence new MP) would put the old one on a countdown clock that at best runs 7 years.

It is unikely that Ultra/Extreme updates will come yearly, but also unlikely that they are going to be on 3 or more year update cycle either. Probably closer to 2 years ( over 1 and less than 3 ). 2+7 isn't going to get you to 10.
 
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