TheYayAreaLiving šļø
Suspended
WWDC 2022 - Shoot me now! The transition is so smooth. Check it out! š«”š³š„µ
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
What to Expect From WWDC 2023: AR/VR Headset, 15-Inch MacBook Air, Mac Studio, iOS 17, xrOS, macOS 14 and More
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Surely, if you're so bullish on AR, you must have some thoughts on what those killer apps are, though. Personally I don't think AR stands a chance until/unless the hardware is super lightweight and fashionable, ie: glasses. I don't believe most people want to wear goggles for any length of time. When people talk about virtual monitors, I just don't see most people wearing googles for 8+ hours a day, especially when you can buy several large monitors for the (rumored) headset price.
I've been a long-time Apple customer and fan (40 years and counting!) and I never count them out, but this just feels like the wrong direction. AR has always felt like a gimmick to me or, at the very best, a nice feature but not an essential feature. Like I said, I can imagine quick and useful 5 minute use cases that would be nice to have, but nothing I'd buy a dedicated piece of hardware to experience. So what AR experience/feature makes the average user spend several thousands dollars?
Any guesses as to price and configuration of the potential 15" MBA? I'm thinking around $1500-1700 for 8gb RAM + 256gb SSD, and 8 core CPU/GPU. close to $2100 for 16gb RAM and 512gb SSD, and maybe a few extra cores on CPU or GPU.
Right now there's a rumor the VR headset will come in around $3k... so good luck if that's the case.
Sorry but anyone who opines that 1998-2023 has been a period of stagnation for the company is in some fantasy world. Apple under Cook is now a $T entity; the world's largest most successful tech firm.
It is self-evident that the world's largest most successful tech firm should not innovate the same way that (high failure rate) start-ups do. Investing $B in tech like AR/VR is innovation, but at a different scale that start-ups cannot do.
When you ask So what AR experience/feature makes the average user spend several thousands dollars? I have no quick answer, because you qualify with the term average user. When I have app ideas that service the average user I mostly will not share them on the internet.
I will say that if Apple hits a ~$2k price point plenty of average users will buy in just to learn the new tech. If that happens relevant apps will get dreamed up and flow into the pipeline.
However lots of special use cases come immediately to mind. The whole area of structural engineering screams out for an AR/mixed reality tool along the lines of the rumored Apple headset. E.g. imagine use of the rumored headset in evaluation of the building collapsing in Iowa. Or even moreso with modern structures that are all CAD designed.
Construction engineering usages could allow better envisioning of how building details real-world get built before it happens. That is not the state of current construction state-of-the-art. "As-built drawings" could be real instead of the pretend documentation that they are today.
Consider mechanical engineering from inside devices, and at different scales. Reviewing operation of a motor vehicle transmission - - from inside the transmission, under operating conditions. Etc.
Nuclear engineering usages are fairly obvious.
Computer science; looking at circuits at nano scale, etc..
Or science experiments under conditions hard-to-achieve due to scale, temperature, safety, etc. That thought brings to mind an average user app for K-12...
The potential is only limited by imagination. IMO Apple's AR/mixed reality product research direction is a huge deal.
Last edited:
Lol. Fair enough!
I don't think that's true. I think the headset needs to come in below $1K before the average user buys in (a game-changing use case notwithstanding). $2K is a lot of money. $3K is a lot a lot of money. Apple has a built-in hardcore fan customer base who will buy this product at whatever price. But, once all of those are sold, I think the headset will be a pretty tough sell at a higher price point. I doubt the Watch would be selling well if it were priced at $2K.
As you say, "special use cases". None of these sell headsets in volume. None of these involves an app that garners millions of subscriptions. Apple needs volume for developers to devote time and resources to development. I also think a lot of the special use cases are simply unrealistic unless the price point is much lower. Education, for example. Schools buy cheap Chromebooks, not $3K headsets. If anything, they're going to buy the Quest 3 for $500, not Apple goggles for possibly 6x the price.
A lot of developers are abandoning the Watch and that sells many million units per year. The Apple TV App Store is a wasteland. Almost no one develops for it. I get the special use cases. I can think of plenty as well. But none of them is consumer facing. None of them sells a lot of app subscriptions. I have no doubt that Apple will release a very impressive product. As a fan I'm excited to see it. But I have serious doubts about the product's overall viability, especially if the price is as high as rumored.
The tethered battery pack makes it a 100% non-starter for me, but I guess you have to start somewhere. I'll wait until it's self-contained in 5 years or so.
Fair enough, no one special use case will quickly sell headsets in volume. So what? I have very intentionally repeatedly analogized to the Newton, and it took a decade before the Newton experience started paying off in the consumer marketplace. And it paid off big time.
I could easily see a case where every structural engineer must-have such a headset, just like they needed a slide rule in the 1960s or a calculator in the 1970s. That is a lot of headsets sold to just one discipline. There are scores of such disciplines and things ultimately do trickle down to the consumer level.
So even though personally I expect killer app(s) w/in two years, even if it takes a decade+ like Newton did it remains a huge smart move by Apple.
Right. Central problem #1. If these supposed future killer apps for it are coming, shouldnāt we have at least some ballpark inkling of what they might be? The utter void where ākiller appā should be is an issue.
Exactly. āHey, wear goggles to get this (insert unknown killer experience here)! Never mind the belt battery pack.ā
Resistance to wearing things that wrap around the head is HIGH. And thatās even beyond resistance to wearing things on the face. Most people who wear glasses do so because they have a disability, not because they have a desire to put something on their faces.
Totally. The whole idea is kind of asinine. āIām going to use these two little screens close to my eyes to show me a fake huge āmonitorā that simply canāt match the resolution of real large monitors or, I dunno, PAPER?ā Come on now. People who need large monitors will continue to buy large monitors.
30 for me. I bought my first Macintosh in 1994. I agree that this is a giant red flashing light that says āfail.ā
I wish I could think of one, honestly. But, like most people, Iām generally trying to have LESS interaction with screens, not more to the point that theyāre obscuring my whole field of vision.
So a mountain of āifs.ā Thatās an unsteady hill to build an expensive house on.
I Apple discontinues M1 Air and lowers the M2 base Air to $999, then I expect 15 inch Air to be $1299 or $1399 8/256.
If they donāt lower the price of 13 inch Air then $1499. They wonāt go over $1500, IMO.
What I really want to see is a lower prices on upgrades. 8/256 is too low for 2023, but I understand that the target audience for the Air can probably get by fine with the base configuration. But $200 for 8 more gigs of memory and $200 for 512 is WAY too much. However, I also know this wonāt happen. The upgrades are where Apple makes their money on computers.
LOL
The Newton did not āpay offā for Apple in any way. If youāre claiming iPod and iPhone are Newtons youāre wrong. Dead wrong.
It depends on need. E.g. wedding photogs and hazmat workers for decades have not thought twice about a belt-supported battery pack to help them get the job done. IMO the utility of Apple's AR/mixed reality will later trickle down from real usages to the kinds of folks wondering if they want to drop $$ at the Apple store just for grins.
Never have I claimed iPod and iPhone are Newtons. Do not misconstrue my commentary.
My claim is that Apple's work on Newton was a learning process that later paid off (I specifically referenced a decade+ later). I opine that Apple's work on AR/mixed reality is similarly a learning process that will long term pay off.
Tech has been evolving quickly now, so I do not think we will require 10+ yerars for Apple's work on AR/mixed reality to show productive results.
Hoping for the same! Have been holding off for the new one for so long now
Spot on assessment. I think that has to do with people not willing to do a wee bit of research, or stretch their imaginations, in order to understand the difference between AR and VR.
That intentional lack of curiosity is very apparent here. And sad.
Guys.
I have Lockdown Mode turned on, on my phone and it just blocked a state-sponsored attacker from hacking into my device.
I have Lockdown Mode turned on, on my phone and it just blocked a state-sponsored attacker from hacking into my device.
I decided to stop commenting on the headset forums because of exact reasons you mention.
Still a day 1 purchase for my studio for the development of our ongoing AR work [which I am not sharing them as they are commercially sensitive].
I am also quite curious about what hardware support may help optimize operation/development around the new goggles. Will we all want lots of RAM? Maximum graphics cores? CPU? Memory bandwidth? I maxed out RAM on my new M2 MBP not because I currently see 2024 need for more than 64 GB, but rather because I want to be as capable as possible of going after whatever happens with AR/mixed reality 2024+.
Or it may turn out that the headset stands alone with no special demands on the rest of the Mac ecosystem. We will see; I remain curious.
Or a 32ā iMac. Why should it be limited to only 27ā?
As long as your view of the real world comes via cameras and a screen thereās no significant difference. AR isnāt viable until youāre looking at things directly.