What to Expect in the Third Generation MacBook

[bigjnyc]

Is the touchbar really that horrible? I have no experience with it but I would think that if you don't want to use it, you can just make it persistent Function keys and ignore it for everything else. What other issue do people have with the touchbar other than the potential increase in price? is it really that horrible to have touch function keys over physical function keys?

 

[bill-p]

Yes.

It's very very very easy to press the Esc key by mistake simply by swiping over the bar while it's active. In some cases (for programming), that's detrimental.

Adjusting brightness/volume/anything now requires a few taps instead of just pressing buttons like before.

And I won't go back into the whole battery drain situation because people keep ignoring that.

Personally, I think touch bar is the WORST idea Apple has ever had. Ever. TouchID is okay and probably warrants its own processor, but the touch bar is just so very useless. If they wanted to do anything, I think embedding a big iPad-like surface would have made more sense, but then the MacBook Pro won't be "Pro" anymore for folks who need a keyboard.

 

[Mac 128]

Is the touchbar really that horrible? I have no experience with it but I would think that if you don't want to use it, you can just make it persistent Function keys and ignore it for everything else. What other issue do people have with the touchbar other than the potential increase in price? is it really that horrible to have touch function keys over physical function keys?

I agree. I rarely use my function keys. Most of the time they're just wasted real estate. I've wanted something like this for years, in fact I tried with various degrees of success to use software to customize the keys over the years, but they inevitably didn't work in all software, could be buggy, and generally a headache. The other headache is that every app has the potential to use them differently. This allows me to know what they do without memorizing them, or swapping key templates everytime I switch to a new app. As with any new technology it takes a little bit of adjustment to use it. The bottom line is, not everyone's needs are the same. For most consumers, I can only imagine the TouchBar would be an improvement for a seldom used set of keys. That's not to say it's perfect, and some improvements need to be made, so that a person can adjust the volume as easily as they do now, but that doesn't mean throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I don't buy the argument that it's going to dramatically decrease battery life. But if it did, then Apple won't add it. However, given the need to expand the technology for greater adoption and development, I suspect Apple will do what it always does, which is to maximize battery conservation in other areas, such that the new power drain at least doesn't reduce the current battery life. The Apple Watch added GPS without taking a hit on battery life, despite people on these boards howling for two years that GPS would drain the battery in a matter of minutes. As long as the battery life doesn't take a significant hit, even if it doesn't get better (nor does the competition), then there's no issues here for me.

 

[fokmik]

Yes.

It's very very very easy to press the Esc key by mistake simply by swiping over the bar while it's active. In some cases (for programming), that's detrimental.

Adjusting brightness/volume/anything now requires a few taps instead of just pressing buttons like before.

And I won't go back into the whole battery drain situation because people keep ignoring that.

Personally, I think touch bar is the WORST idea Apple has ever had. Ever. TouchID is okay and probably warrants its own processor, but the touch bar is just so very useless. If they wanted to do anything, I think embedding a big iPad-like surface would have made more sense, but then the MacBook Pro won't be "Pro" anymore for folks who need a keyboard.

Hmm seems you dont have the touchbar or you didnt figure it out. You can slide with just one tap the brightness or volume, you can use a v custom app for the touch bar that makes it a must have. No battery issues here, since i get around 9 hours with the same usage as late 2014 mbp, and that had around 7-7.5 hours

 

[bill-p]

Hmm seems you dont have the touchbar or you didnt figure it out. You can slide with just one tap the brightness or volume, you can use a v custom app for the touch bar that makes it a must have. No battery issues here, since i get around 9 hours with the same usage as late 2014 mbp, and that had around 7-7.5 hours

I do. Developing for it everyday. Maybe that's actually why I hate it (beyond the reasons stated above).

One tap and then slide is slower than directly pressing buttons, not to mention you have to look at the touch bar after the first tap. There is no way out of this usage. The buttons are exactly where they need to be and do not require me to look down at the touch bar. Maybe I'm nitpicking but that's the truth.

Yes, I can program the touch bar to always have the brightness and volume sliders, but then there will not be enough space on it for anything else.

You probably are not running into battery issues because you barely use the touch bar if at all. For a programmer who hits the Esc + function keys multiple times a minute, I barely get 5 hours of usage (or 7 if I'm not extensively testing any heavy routine) for coding. That's HALF what I got from the 2015 MacBook that the company replaced with this Touch Bar MacBook Pro for the same usage.

Honestly, if not because it's a work requirement, I'd prefer them to give me the non-Touch Bar 13" MacBook Pro.

 

[Appleaker]

Is the touchbar really that horrible? I have no experience with it but I would think that if you don't want to use it, you can just make it persistent Function keys and ignore it for everything else. What other issue do people have with the touchbar other than the potential increase in price? is it really that horrible to have touch function keys over physical function keys?

I don't know why people think the Touch Bar was the sole reason for the price increase but that isn't true at all. The same applies with battery life.
The only major issue I have with it is pressing the escape key. I would prefer that to be a physical button, maybe on the left side like the Touch ID button. Ideally, I would like to have standard function keys AND the touch bar. Not only would this make accessing certain functions (e.g. volume, brightness) easier, but it would also mean that the whole Touch Bar could be used for the application functions, AND it would fix the complaints people have.

 

[Mac 128]

I don't know why people think the Touch Bar was the sole reason for the price increase but that isn't true at all. The same applies with battery life.
The only major issue I have with it is pressing the escape key. I would prefer that to be a physical button, maybe on the left side like the Touch ID button. Ideally, I would like to have standard function keys AND the touch bar. Not only would this make accessing certain functions (e.g. volume, brightness) easier, but it would also mean that the whole Touch Bar could be used for the application functions, AND it would fix the complaints people have.

If I had to wildly speculate where Apple is going with the MB, I'd say that they are moving away from a physical keyboard and entirely to a virtual one under glass. I realize that would be problematic for touch typists, but that's really kind of becoming a thing of the past -- do schools even teach it anymore? Battery would likely be the main issue with that now, but maybe not so much in the future. In the meantime, the iPad is training a generation of customers with that as an expectation.

 

[DrDan99]

If I had to wildly speculate where Apple is going with the MB, I'd say that they are moving away from a physical keyboard and entirely to a virtual one under glass. I realize that would be problematic for touch typists, but that's really kind of becoming a thing of the past -- do schools even teach it anymore?

Now that is something I would never buy.

 

[Appleaker]

If I had to wildly speculate where Apple is going with the MB, I'd say that they are moving away from a physical keyboard and entirely to a virtual one under glass. I realize that would be problematic for touch typists, but that's really kind of becoming a thing of the past -- do schools even teach it anymore? Battery would likely be the main issue with that now, but maybe not so much in the future. In the meantime, the iPad is training a generation of customers with that as an expectation.

Yeah that's the future plan, although with the backlash over the Touch Bar alone, their plans may have changed slightly to make sure they get everything right for the touch input area. That means haptic feedback in the sense of textures, as well as replicating the feel of a keyboard through a Taptic Engine, probably mixed with the haptic feedback. They wouldn't release it with simply a touchscreen there and no feedback or pressure sensing.
Even today, battery isn't stopping that from happening but it would need to improve to keep the same level of battery life as seen today.

 

[0092762]

Note: Skylake and Kaby Lake chips used in the MacBook Pros do support Thunderbolt 3, or more specifically, they have more high bandwidth data lanes available, which Apple is "hacking" in order to pull off 5K support on those chips.

The same thing won't happen to the Core M chips because of data lane limitation. Basically, the chips in the MacBook are nice but they ain't up to the same level as the ones used in the MacBook Pros, even though they're from the same generation/family of processors.

U chips have 12 PCIe lanes whereas Y has 10. But macbook pros can have 4 full speed ports, so why not 2 full speed USB-C for Y? 12 isn't that much more than 10.

 

[bill-p]

U chips have 12 PCIe lanes whereas Y has 10. But macbook pros can have 4 full speed ports, so why not 2 full speed USB-C for Y? 12 isn't that much more than 10.

2 of the lanes of the Y chips are used for the SSD.

Imagine the same thing for the U chips, and you can see the effective usable lanes for external peripherals are about 8 vs 10. Or 4 to 5. (4K to 5K in case you didn't catch that)

Skylake U also can't run all 4 ports at full speed when a 5K display is connected. 2 of those 4 ports don't even support Thunderbolt 3. When a 4K display is connected to the MacBook Pro with U chips, the other ports can still reach about USB 3.1 speed, but if a 5K display is connected, then they're all effectively USB 2.0 only. This is what happens to the 13" MBP. The 15" has more lanes so it doesn't run into the same problem. The situation won't be much different if the MacBook had 2 ports but one of them is connected to a 4K display.

So yeah, I'm not ruling out that Apple may choose to accept the same trade-offs and problems with the MacBook. In which case, they may very well come out with a MacBook with 2 USB-C ports, but do note that with the current design, the 3.5mm jack will have to go.

Lack of lanes plus power consumption may also have contributed to Apple deciding to not support Thunderbolt 3 on the current MacBook as well, which is a shame because making it Thunderbolt 3 would have allowed it to dock on to an external GPU that could then handle higher resolution displays using its own data lanes.

 

[ColdShadow]

over a decade ago I had an IMB ThinkPad 12" which had finger print sensor as a secure way to log in.
so I don't get it why some people here are making a fuss of it.
it should be there on every MacBook.

 

[Esquire1]

over a decade ago I had an IMB ThinkPad 12" which had finger print sensor as a secure way to log in.
so I don't get it why some people here are making a fuss of it.
it should be there on every MacBook.

That fingerprint sensor isn't anywhere close to the same thing. It's like saying the Motorola Atrix made fingerprints popular on phones.

 

[junkmail509]

1 TB Drive, 16 GB RAM, and Touch ID would make this a compelling purchase. Adding Thunderbolt 3 (one or two ports) would make it a day 1 purchase. Bonus would be Touch Bar v2 with a physical ESC key.

 

[fokmik]

Like the 13" MBP today, even the 12" MB is delivered 7 June fastest, so update for 12" MB is confirmed for Monday

 

[fokmik]

The source also says that MacBooks are only getting internal updates this year but more major changes are planned for future models. This includes the dynamic e-Ink keyboards we have heard about before. The OLED Touch Bar would apparently remain for the function key row and the remaining keys would be ‘e-paper smart keys’. The poster also seemed to suggest that a future external Magic Keyboard (‘2018’) would also get this feature set, including the Touch Bar.

 

[ColdShadow]

Huawei Mate X and Samsung Galaxy Book 12 are newly available.
both ultra portable and both have at least 2 ports + Core i5 CPU.
both equally premium and in the similar price range (Galaxy Book 12 and MacBook 12)
so I really don't understand why Apple insists on so much compromise for the 12 Inch MacBook.
I have to say as much as I favour Mac OS,I'm leaning towards buying either Galaxy Book 12 or Mate X.specially the new Samsung Galaxy Book..that OLED display is just ridiculous.nothing can touch it.

 

[fokmik]

That samsung has around 8 hours battery with lught usage. The huawei i think is not available yet so we must see what compromises has
[doublepost=1496503204][/doublepost]I would not pick oled panel for a device that is on for a longer period of time. In smartphones ir tablet iled are fine but fir laptops monitors tv it is not. If tou plan to keep your device for 1-2 years i think its ok

 

[DrDan99]

A question for those of you that have waited for new Apple products before.

I have not “waited” for an intro like this. (mostly PCs and recently mid-cycle Apple products). I understand they “take down” the online ordering and then bring it back up after the intro. I assume down at the beginning of the keynote and up at the end?

 

[Qu1ckset]

A question for those of you that have waited for new Apple products before.

I have not “waited” for an intro like this. (mostly PCs and recently mid-cycle Apple products). I understand they “take down” the online ordering and then bring it back up after the intro. I assume down at the beginning of the keynote and up at the end?

Correct

 

[DrDan99]

Correct

Thanks

 

[fokmik]

anyone knows with how many hours apple usually close the store for new products to be updated??

 

[C64]

anyone knows with how many hours apple usually close the store for new products to be updated??

IIRC the store is usually back up within 30-60 minutes after the keynote, depending on how fast the changes propagate through the CDNs.

 

[C64]

I don't see any new specs yet, but they only mentioned a shift to Kaby Lake and a faster SSD. Really hoping there's a silent update to some of the other internals as well.

 

[utkanpeker]

I don't see any new specs yet, but they only mentioned a shift to Kaby Lake and a faster SSD. Really hoping there's a silent update to some of the other internals as well.

I really don't think that was it. Silent update may be the thing to look for maybe?