What's gonna happen to the Apple TV 4K

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by rmoliv, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. rmoliv macrumors 6502a

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    Dec 20, 2017
    #1
    Released in 2017.
    Are they gonna kill it, keep as it is, upgrade it?
    Predictions, not what you wish they'd do.
     
  2. chabig macrumors 603

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    Sep 6, 2002
    #2
    I predict it will either stay as it is or be replaced by something better.
     
  3. casperes1996 macrumors 68040

    casperes1996

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    Location:
    Horsens, Denmark
    #3
    Short term, it'll stay, maybe even get upgraded once. Longer terms; You've seen how TVs are getting AirPlay two and remote control over iOS and whatnot built in now? tvOS on 3rd party TVs is my prediction. Only a select few, but it's my guess. If you've been with Apple a long time, this seems fairly unlike Apple. Letting their software run on non-Apple hardware hasn't really been in the cards since Rhapsody, but Apple doesn't seem to want to make a full TV, but they do seem to want to control the software we interact with on the TV, yet external boxes won't stick around forever, since the TVs themselves are getting more and more capable with less reason to have extra boxes connected to them.
     
  4. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 65816

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    Feb 9, 2009
    #4
    Apple TV will always be around. It's a money generator for Apple to sell iTunes film. That's it - period. Apple is about money BIG TIME and anything that promotes their services stays!

    Look back over the years and ask yourself how often do Smart TVs get updated? How is that smart TV performing from 3 years ago? How reliable are the apps on it? Do they still work?
    Chances are that a gloomy picture is posted here. And that's why separate boxes will always remain superior PLUS you tend to update them every time a new model is launched every two years.

    The majority of Smart TVs will not have the processing power to deliver a 4K HDR film with Atmos well. IMO there is nothing worse than trying to watch a film and it stops to buffer or simply freezes or an app crashes.

    Apple TV is here to stay and maybe one day it'll develop into a WiFi6 Mesh router too. It's hard to know what Apple is thinking though as they are so unpredictable - a bit of a Jekyl and Hyde company.

    As I said if it's something that makes them money by promoting money spend on their services, it will stay and the Apple TV does that.

    Maybe a lossless audio like Dolby True HD MAY be implemented in iTunes and future ATV to compliment 4K Dolby Vision and super fast fibre broadband?
     
  5. Audit13 macrumors 68040

    Audit13

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    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #5
    It's also possible that, with the release of the iTunes app on upcoming Smart TVs, Apple concentrates on getting the iTunes app on as many TVs as possible rather than developing a newer version.
     
  6. ericwn macrumors 68020

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    #6
    Apple might do something comparable to what they did with CarPlay in the TV market. Not sure they will want to continue selling ATV boxes for long.
     
  7. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 65816

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    #7
    One thing, ask yourself would you be truly happy to sign in with your Apple I.D. - something that has ALL of your information on from name, address, credit card info, contacts, photos of your children, purchases etc etc to a Hisense TV with crappy OS or an Android TV?

    I certainly would not. That's the reason why I chose iOS for my phone etc. My Apple I.D. is meant for an Apple product that has regular OS updates NOT for a Smart TV with lacklustre security and non existent OS updates.
     
  8. kiranmk2 macrumors 6502a

    kiranmk2

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    Oct 4, 2008
    #8
    The problem Apple now have is that the Apple TV 4k is just too expensive. Amazon are selling the Fire Stick 4K (which supports Dolby Vision and HDR10+ and Dolby Atmos) for £50 - less than 1/3 the price of the cheapest Apple TV 4K. Previously Apple had exclusivity of the iTunes store on its hardware, but now that is coming to Samsung TVs (and no doubt all major smart TV platforms after an exclusivity window) that doesn't seem much of an advantage anymore.

    I'm guessing a newer model (with HDMI 2.1) may come in the form of a streaming stick with a cheaper components with perhaps a more powerful/expensive model with an A12X chip if Apple embrace gaming properly (A12X has XBox One S level graphics).
     
  9. retiredatty macrumors newbie

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    #9
    --- Post Merged, Feb 9, 2019 ---
    But isn't it much better to stream movies from netflix and amazon prime on atv4k than watching these just on your tv without atv? I've tried both ways and streaming from atv4k is much better.
     
  10. chrfr macrumors 604

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    Jul 11, 2009
    #10
    There are plenty of ways to watch Netflix and Prime Video on TV for a fraction of what the Apple TV costs. The user experience just is not significantly different from one device to another. The Apple TV is far too expensive for a streaming device.
     
  11. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 65816

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    Feb 9, 2009
    #11
    I truly disagree. How can 180 dollars be too expensive for a device that works reliably? Cheap is false economy if it buffers or freezes whilst watching content.

    It's like arguing that iPhones are too expensive simply because Samsung or an Android thing is available for 150 dollars.
    Nothing in life is free. If it's cheap, there's a reason. Do you honestly think that the owner of Amazon is being super kind to humanity by offering his fire tv thing for cheap with zero profit because he likes people? No, he makes money - lots of it. That means his cheap fire stick is in fact 'cheap' in every way.
    Please do not compare utter rubbish to a quality product. It's like asking why a hand made suit costs £1000 when H&M are selling them made by children and slave labour for £30 and not seeing or understanding the difference
    --- Post Merged, Feb 9, 2019 ---
    Try the fire stick for 18 months and then please report back on its quality to stream a 4K Dolby Vision film with ZERO buffering, usability and outright reliability.
    Personally, I do not think that you'll find it a long term pleasure!
    If it's cheap, then it's cheap for a reason. To stream a 2 hour film in 4K with Dolby Vision, you need a product with top quality components. I'm not convinced that any Amazon product has those.

    I find it insulting comparing an Apple product to an Amazon product. They are worlds apart. Day and night in terms of quality, R&D, construction, build quality, operating systems, security.
     
  12. casperes1996 macrumors 68040

    casperes1996

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    #12

    It's better right now, sure. But if tvOS ran on those TVs with a minimum spec for hardware required by TV manufacturers to use tvOS, it'd be the same experience entirely.
    Better even since it's a box less, and you don't need to switch over to it. Or perhaps a little worse in the loss of the Apple TV remote, but generally the same experience.

    Plus, many people already have PlayStation, Xbox or other boxes that offer all the same functionality
     
  13. vertical smile macrumors 68040

    vertical smile

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    Sep 23, 2014
    #13
    I think the current ATV4K will not be updated anytime soon, maybe not for a year or a few years. The ATV4 will be replaced by an ATV "lite" for $69 in the US. It will 16GB, smaller, fan-less, and an older A-chip. It might not come with a Siri Remote.

    tvOS will be relatively unchanged, like it pretty much has been since launch.

    I honestly think that the ATV isn't that important to Apple, and all the recent built-in AirPlay on TVs news is just Apple's way of exposing more people to their growing services business.

    It is a shame, because I think that Apple could have made the ATV and tvOS into something really unique and special when compared to the other streaming boxes.

    Instead, they neutered the ATV4 at launch with an underpowered A8, the Siri Remote, the requirements related to the Siri Remote, app size restrictions, etc...... All of this killed any momentum the ATV4 had building prior to its launch.
     
  14. jole26 macrumors newbie

    jole26

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    #14
    It wouldn't surprise me if this Samsung iTunes deal has a longer term aim of putting tvOS onto Samsung tvs.

    It would make sense for Samsung because Tizen isn't as well regarded as their competitor's offerings. And it would make sense for Apple to increase their market share in the streaming to tv space.
     
  15. Michelasso macrumors 6502

    Michelasso

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    Treviso, Italy
    #15
    HDMI 2.1 is mostly good for 8K televisions, at 120Hz (the standard supports up to 10K at 120Hz), and eARC (useless on a streaming device. AFAIK HDMI 2.0 supports al possible audio formats and bandwidths connecting the box to an AVR).

    I suspect an A12X chip isn't powerful enough for 8K resolution (even less at 120Hz). Plus the price of 4K televisions dropped only recently. Then I don't know about the rest of EU, but in Italy there will be another terrestrial television switch off. DVB-T will switch to DVB-T2 and for people with older televisions that will mean to buy yet another decoder or, quite likely, a new television. A 4K TV unless one is masochist.

    Once many will face the "joys" of a lag TV (depending on the TVs brand and model, off course!!) I imagine they will look in the market for a fast 4K streaming box, as I did. Sure, for people spending €300-500 for a new TV (and €150-200 for an Android phone) it would be absurd to fork out €200 for an ATV 4K. The ATV 4K may not gain market shares. But I strongly suspect it will keep raising its total sales. So no, it won't go anywhere. As I imagine it will take at least another couple of years for the ATV 8K with HDMI 2.1. Probably more. The ATV 4K itself came out a year later than the competition after all.
     
  16. priitv8 macrumors 68040

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    Estonia
    #16
    Apple won’t be releasing 8K streaming device unless they have content on their servers.
    Now that they supposedly are rolling out their own appleflix, the critical mass of available 8K content might arrive sooner than I expect.
    Then again, we will have to see how soon the production workflow in studios gets upgraded. That will be a painful and costly experience for them, I’m afraid.
     
  17. rmoliv thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Dec 20, 2017
    #17
    I think it’ll take at least 3 or more years until a 8K capable Apple TV is justifiable. Most content is still HD even though last year saw a big increase in 4K HDR content on iTunes. I hope it takes long time as I’m not willing to spend several thousands anytime soon to upgrade to an 8K TV when I just got last year a 4K HDR Dolby Vision/Atmos capable LG TV.
     
  18. vertical smile macrumors 68040

    vertical smile

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    #18
    I don't think there will be an 8K ATV until 2025 or later.

    Content aside, I seriously doubt that Apple will make an ATV with 8K capabilities until there is a large market with 8K TV sets.

    There were already analysts (or Apple PR) stating that the current ATV4K is sold at cost, and if that is remotely true, I doubt that Apple will incur a loss to provide 8K for non-existing customers.
     
  19. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 65816

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    #19
    No way that any Apple OS would appear in a Samsung product. tvOS is iOS and there's no way on this planet that Apple would share that with one of Apple iPhone's biggest and most vulgar/hateful rivals!
    Samsung plays dirty in every respect. It has no ethics. No morals. Apple is not stupid. Or at least, it didn't used to be.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 10, 2019 ---
    2025? In the computer age?
    By 2020 AV1 compression will be the standard. 8K streaming using AV1 will require around 80mbps fibre broadband. Certainly not a problem there as many cities around the world have 200+ we have 150, 400 and 900mbps options unlimited in my city. Plus of course, 5G changes EVERY THING!

    The minute that the movie distributors start with 8K then things will move fast.

    Maybe we don't need it and maybe people actually need to start living and get a life - in the outside world. People in the western world see more miserable, discontent, selfish than ever from what I care to remember, so it's clear that the digital world is not doing much to make the world a better place for some.
    Let's see how it pans out. If 8K is successful, then it's going to be successful far far far quicker than 2025.

    My advice, buy the 4K Apple TV now - it's cheap enough to upgrade whenever you want to PLUS it holds its value very very well on the secondhand market.

    Me? I'd rather carry on my travelling, meeting incredible people that leave imprints on my heart and soul that i'll remember for the rest of my life.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 10, 2019 ---
    Yes, those movies in iTunes are taking a heck of a lot longer to upgrade to 4K HDR than I thought. The majority - 98% of titles in my wishlist are HD.
    Seems to be just the new mainstream releases that get released in 4K on iTunes.
     
  20. jole26 macrumors newbie

    jole26

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    #20
    That's a little naive. You do seem to like making hyperbolic statements.

    They're a competitor is some areas and a trusted partner in others. Some of the hardware in iphones are Samsung products and we know itunes is heading to Samsung tvs.

    I said I wouldn't be surprised to see tvOS on Samsung tvs but I do think it's unlikely. But if Apple do decide to discontinue the ATV then it is one of the possibilities.
     
  21. danieleilertsen macrumors regular

    danieleilertsen

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    Oslo, Norway
    #21
    Wrong. HDMI 2.1 also supports Quick Media Switching, wich is kinda importent to apple tv. You know, when it auto matches contet to frame rate or sdr/hdr. QMS lets that happen without the black screen you see today.

    Since almost no TVs will have hdmi 2.1 this year, they have no reason to update it before next year.

    My prediction is we get an updated apple tv 2020. Not sure if it will support 8k or not.
     
  22. x-evil-x macrumors 68040

    x-evil-x

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    #22
    8k Wont catch on as fast as 4k. Its only necessary on 85"+ tv's which wont become the norm that soon. What has 4k done since it came out? There isn't THAT much content. Most cable channels are 1080p and that is still compressed. Netflix 4k is compressed it isnt much better than 1080p Blu Ray IMO. The adoption of 4k all over the board is very slow. By 2021 you really think internet companies will be offering the speeds needed for 8k? I dont see gigabit speeds for cheap that soon and then you are talking data caps.
    All the stuff I see about 5g is that it is very dangerous. I need to research more into it but I think people are looking passed this or just havent heard about it. I think 5g being widespread could get a big backlash the more info comes out about it.
    Back to 8k, I really dont see this catching on for the average consumer. Im hoping by 2021 4k is the norm with everything in 4k BUT I still dont see this happening by 2021. Things are moving too slow for it...
     
  23. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 65816

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    #23
    NO WAY that Apple OS software is going to appear in a Samsung TV. The hardware in Apple products that comes from Samsung is a totally different division that Samsung products just like LG and LG display are a different entity.

    To even think that tvOS which is the iPhones iOS operating system could appear in a Samsung TV is simply completely bonkers! It's the equivalent of Microsoft asking Apple if they can license MacOS for their 'purposes'.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 11, 2019 ---
    I agree 5G is nasty. I don't want it. There are plenty of health related matters on the subject and quite frankly it WILL interfere with human DNA. It's nasty but then you have dirty politicians - just look at the world right now and you'll realise that a certain orange man will easily go ahed with it!

    Not sure who the average customer is and whether they buy 4K iTunes films anyway. I tend to think of an 'average' customer as simply the person in the UK who subscribes to SKY TV and believes whatever that box feeds them.
    Probably more the enthusiast who buys an Apple TV / Apple product and later on a 8K TV.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 11, 2019 ---
    The LG range of TVs will have HDMI 2.1 this April launch. Maybe we'll see that on Apple TV this September :)
     
  24. x-evil-x macrumors 68040

    x-evil-x

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    #24
    Whats the real benefit of hdmi 2.1 anyway? You'd need a new receiver that supports it unless you ran straight to the tv. I think it supports higher refresh rate(not that anyone is complaining about the 60hz on oleds or lcd's).
    What other benefits does it really bring thats worth waiting for?
     
  25. danieleilertsen macrumors regular

    danieleilertsen

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    Oslo, Norway
    #25
    IMO it is the VRR, earch and QMS, and off coruse 8K etc.

    But think of this, with hdmi 2.1 you can put the apple tv on match content and match framerate. It will always change to the best picture of the source, without black screens, like you see today.

    This is a game changer imo.
     

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