Whats keeping you from getting a new Mac Pro?

[Cliff3]

You're getting yours a day ahead of me. I ended up getting the 8G RAM upgrade from Apple, then ordering an additional 8G RAM from OWC (actually saves about $50 doing it that way). I've seen the reports of the new MP doing better with 6 sticks or RAM instead of all 8, but I'll be using it for music, so I'll probably end up using the full 16G of RAM.

...until 4G RAM prices drop, anyway.

I ordered mine from Macconnection.com - they discount it slightly ($110) and don't charge sales tax to this California resident. This will be the 3rd Mac I've bought from them. They're a good vendor.

I opted for 12GB based on the benchmark results that have been posted so far. My primary memory consumer will be VMWare virtual machines - I have a Windows Server 2003 VM that is running SQL Server, IIS, and the Cognos 8.x server components that needs some room to stretch its legs. I expect Lightroom and Photoshop will be a lot happier on the new machine than they are on my 3GB MBP too.

 

[leekohler]

Too expensive. My G5 is great for now.

 

[jjahshik32]

The low end CPU has enough power for my needs, and the 2.66 commands a substantial price premium that I can't justify paying.

FWIW, this chart says all the Gainestown CPUs have 6.4 GT/s transfer speeds, while this chart says the E5520 is 5.86 GT/s versus 6.4 for the X5550. I have found several other articles that suggest all the Gainestown CPU's share the higher of the two speeds. Since Intel hasn't published official specs yet, it's probably anybody's guess.

I am not a system designer, so I am not going to attach importance to specific low level chip metrics without a solid understanding how the whole of the system interacts and exactly what effect that metric has on the performance of the system. It's easy to point at a number and say bigger must be better, but things usually aren't that simple. Then there's that number with a dollar sign in front of it. That one I understand pretty well.

Its just me though saying this but I find the 2.26GHz some what crippled. Just viewing the performance gains from the 2.8GHz 8 core previous gen feels like the $500 isnt really worth it. Especially when you can stick the same ATI 4870 in the 2.8ghz model.

But the 2.66GHz and the 2.93GHz seems to be pretty substantial upgrades. I know its more expensive than the previous gen models that they replaced but then it is much faster.

We wouldnt know everything yet for certain which programs have differences in speeds compared to the last gen to this generation since the full benchmarks hasnt risen yet.

Anyway to your last comment, usually in the computer world unfortunately bigger numbers do mean better but if dollar signs infront of it is that much important to you, your best bet would be a 2.8GHz 8 core previous gen mac pro as to the nehalem 2.26GHz Octad.

I used to own the 2.8GHz 8 core model and sold it off sometime mid last year. I waited about a year now and I do have the funds, but I feel gypped. I really really thought that the base model of the new nehalem would be about 2x faster than the model it was replacing in this case the 2.8ghz model. But nope, I waited for nothing and I know others feel the same as I do and now considering paying a crazy amount of $1200 more to get the mid range model just to justify the wait of the purchase.

Maybe this was Apple's true scheme of things but man last year I wouldnt even touch the 3.0GHz or 3.2GHz models since they were in the $4k range but now I'm considering a $4.5k midrange model and I'm sure other people who has waited are not thinking twice about pulling the trigger on the 2.66GHz model.

 

[jmpage2]

Price is definitely what is keeping me out of a Mac Pro. I can afford it but the only reason that I would need something as powerful as the Mac Pro at this point in time is the occasional Windows game, The Pro is the only machine that offers fast enough video performance that I wouldn't have to have two machines sitting at my desk.

I'm contemplating just getting a Mini to start getting comfortable with OS X, and sucking it up for 12 months to see if Apple will pull their heads out and offer a more mid-range workstation product between the Pro and the iMac.

 

[Cliff3]

Anyway to your last comment, usually in the computer world unfortunately bigger numbers do mean better but if dollar sign infront of it is that much important to you, your best would be a 2.8GHz 8 core previous mac pro as to the nehalem 2.26GHz Octad.

Not necessarily. For example, if faster memory transfer performance just means the CPU is stuffing a buffer because the memory can't consume the data as quickly as the CPU delivers it, then that QPI performance number becomes somewhat moot. Standardized benchmarks are more useful measures of performance.

And thanks for your financial advice. I'll ignore it. Enjoy your mac mini.

 

[jjahshik32]

Price is definitely what is keeping me out of a Mac Pro. I can afford it but the only reason that I would need something as powerful as the Mac Pro at this point in time is the occasional Windows game, The Pro is the only machine that offers fast enough video performance that I wouldn't have to have two machines sitting at my desk.

I'm contemplating just getting a Mini to start getting comfortable with OS X, and sucking it up for 12 months to see if Apple will pull their heads out and offer a more mid-range workstation product between the Pro and the iMac.

You know what? I noticed many people going to this route and I have done so already. Buying a mini and using it for the next 6-12 months until either Apple bumps up their specs (probably when 3.2GHz nehalem is out in the next couple of months) to replace the 2.93GHz and bump each model down and keep the prices the same.

If the 2.66GHz model bumps down to $3299 I would gladly buy that new base model. Also dont forget Apple has gotten their nehalem xeon systems quicker than other vendors (which could really explain the increase in price).

 

[jjahshik32]

Not necessarily. For example, if faster memory transfer performance just means the CPU is stuffing a buffer because the memory can't consume the data as quickly as the CPU delivers it, then that QPI performance number becomes somewhat moot. Standardized benchmarks are more useful measures of performance.

And thanks for your financial advice. I'll ignore it. Enjoy your mac mini.

Well think about it this way, there are no more fsb which the QPI is really design to replace. Faster fsb = faster performance, faster qpi= faster performance.

What your describing seems to be the nehalem vs. previous gen architecture. When memory speed is literally 2x faster and when the new architecture gotten rid of the fsb for the much faster qpi, I dont see why the cpu should buffer nearly as much in this case.

I really really really REALLY want one of these new nehalem but the value is so terrible. I found a 2.8GHz 8 core model at one of my local apple store for $1899 brand new which I'm seriously considering. Basically the same performance for $1400 less. But I feel like I waited for nothing to only just get old technology.

Another fear is that in 2-3 more months the nehalem mac pros will get a free speed bump and I'd feel more gyped. For example the 15" unibody mbp got a free bump up to the 2.66GHz and the 2.93GHz for the same price.

I Love Apple at the same time I hate them.

 

[Lucibelle]

While I don't doubt that the MacPro will get a speed bump sometime during the year, I have my doubts that they will drop the 2.66 octo $1400 to the current price of the 2.26. But hey, maybe they do... Bottom line is that there will always, ALWAYS be the next model to be released and to drool over. By next release, the 3.2 octos (yes, I call them "octos", now hush) will seem archaic, but will still be plenty of power to meet the needs of many users.

I waited for the Nehalems to be released. I've always used Macs, and I'm just going to trust that Apple knows what they're doing when it comes to the decision to release 2.26 as the lowest octo model. They have yet to disappoint me.


Oh, and Cliff...if I weren't married.

 

[greax]

Mad Apple

I had decided to finally buy my first mac, but now I have changed my mind again...

Most people would see that something is very wrong here:

Base Mac Pro on apple.dk: DKK 23,999.00 / 5.71 = $ 4,203.00

Base Mac Pro on apple.com: $3,299.00

Apple seems to think this is the way to do business. Well not with me. I think they are pushing the price enough already. Not that I cant afford it, been saving since last summer. There just isnt enough value for the money.

Im going to assemble my own linux/windows 8-core Nehalem, with freedom to choose whatever hardware I like and saving thousands of dollars.

/T

 

[Tallest Skil]

Most people would see that something is very wrong here:

Yep. What's wrong is that your country suffers from not being this country.

In that Apple has to pay taxes, shipping, and other international business fees, which push the cost of the product higher outside their country of origin.

I would LOVE to have some Club Orange and Club Lemon over here, but it is not fiscally viable for me to order it from the Republic of Ireland.

Apple seems to think this is the way to do business. Well not with me.

Heaven forbid you need to buy anything from a company outside your own country, then.

Im going to assemble my own linux/windows 8-core Nehalem, with freedom to choose whatever hardware I like and saving thousands of dollars.

You get right on that. Let us know when you can build a Gainestown machine for less than the price of a Mac Pro.

 

[Cliff3]

I had decided to finally buy my first mac, but now I have changed my mind again...

Most people would see that something is very wrong here:

Base Mac Pro on apple.dk: DKK 23,999.00 / 5.71 = $ 4,203.00

Base Mac Pro on apple.com: $3,299.00

Apple seems to think this is the way to do business. Well not with me. I think they are pushing the price enough already. Not that I cant afford it, been saving since last summer. There just isnt enough value for the money.

Im going to assemble my own linux/windows 8-core Nehalem, with freedom to choose whatever hardware I like and saving thousands of dollars.

/T

It's probably due to Danish customs and VAT, not Apple. Until the economy imploded I was going to be moving to Australia for at least a couple of years to manage a software development team there. Their customs duties and taxes added a substantial premium to imported goods.

 

[greax]

Yep. What's wrong is that your country suffers from not being this country.

In that Apple has to pay taxes, shipping, and other international business fees, which push the cost of the product higher outside their country of origin.

I would LOVE to have some Club Orange and Club Lemon over here, but it is not fiscally viable for me to order it from the Republic of Ireland.



Heaven forbid you need to buy anything from a company outside your own country, then.



You get right on that. Let us know when you can build a Gainestown machine for less than the price of a Mac Pro.

True true, its sad to live in DK with 25% VAT, and since the extra cost on apple.dk is 27.3%, this means that apple is adding an extra $75.25.

I am saying that Apple should do some country specific profit maximization, instead of just adding 25% and shipping. I am sure they would benefit too, as they are missing out on many customers in the North European countries.

/T

 

[Gonk42]

You get right on that. Let us know when you can build a Gainestown machine for less than the price of a Mac Pro.

I'm thinking of doing this too (running Linux not OS-X) but until things are officially released it's impossible to get accurate costs. With the 08 Mac Pros the cost of self-build was a lot more than the Mac Pro but for the 09 model I don't think it will still be the case. I think a base model (2.26GHz Octo) with more RAM slots than the Mac Pro will cost under £2k here in the UK whilst even with a generous student discount the Mac Pro is something like £2,600. But at this point this is all speculation.

 

[Ploki]

True true, its sad to live in DK with 25% VAT, and since the extra cost on apple.dk is 27.3%, this means that apple is adding an extra $75.25.

I am saying that Apple should do some country specific profit maximization, instead of just adding 25% and shipping. I am sure they would benefit too, as they are missing out on many customers in the North European countries.

/T

our country doesnt even have Apple Care
but i still have a mac heh.
there are ways in europe, to get around VAT... and when you do that, you are more close to the US price.
you probably know, US citizens have to pay taxes at the end of the year.

im not going to convince you but i dont think they are ripping of Eu costumers, everything americans costs way more in US.

if not anything, get it from UK then! pound/euro is still sweet. i know a few guys that did just that. and get around VAT, and you are down to less than the US price.

 

[diotav]

..

 

[Sdancott]

..

Huh?

 

[jjahshik32]

..

Damn those are olld school money. I havnt seen those, 20's, 50's, and 100's in the past 6 years!

 

[Abidubi]

..

Now here is what I'm talking about!

Oops... This is what I meant.

I get them confused all the time, especially with:

 

[jjahshik32]

Now here is what I'm talking about!

Oops... This is what I meant.

I get them confused all the time, especially with:

Whoa~!! Thats some serious cash!!

BTW, looking at your sig.. wow your mac pro is estimated to ship in may?!?

 

[Abidubi]

your mac pro is estimated to ship in may?!?

Oops, lol. Typo.

 

[MIDI_EVIL]

8GB memory limitation on Quad.

Gutted.

 

[stix666]

The mini-display port connector isn't long enough. Where I want the Mac Pro is a bit more than 42in away from the screen. And I really want a 24in LED ACD (IPS, LED, built-in isight, clean solution for future laptops, films should look good on it, 17% off regular price)

 

[jmpage2]

You know what? I noticed many people going to this route and I have done so already. Buying a mini and using it for the next 6-12 months until either Apple bumps up their specs (probably when 3.2GHz nehalem is out in the next couple of months) to replace the 2.93GHz and bump each model down and keep the prices the same.

If the 2.66GHz model bumps down to $3299 I would gladly buy that new base model. Also dont forget Apple has gotten their nehalem xeon systems quicker than other vendors (which could really explain the increase in price).

I have now done so also. Mini + 4GB of RAM to get my feet wet before splurging on something as spendy as a Mac Pro.

 

[jjahshik32]

I have now done so also. Mini + 4GB of RAM to get my feet wet before splurging on something as spendy as a Mac Pro.

I have to mention one thing that the mac mini is a very capable "main" machine. These little machines are awesome.

 

[jmpage2]

I have to mention one thing that the mac mini is a very capable "main" machine. These little machines are awesome.

I am hoping I am as impressed as you are!

In all likelihood if I like the Mini I will get an even more powerful Mac at the end of the year.