What's with Aspyr?

[Signal-11]

I'm convinced that Steam is the way of the future. It's been what, five years since Steam went online? I've long since lost the physical media for most of my games but for every game I've ever bought through Steam, I can access from any computer. It's nice to be able to build a computer regardless of where you are, load up the Steam client and access your full library of games.

I just wish the PSP would go this way so I wouldn't have to lug around a zillion UMDs.

 

[nhexima]

Gotta agree, Steam is excellent. Even with the hassle of having to boot to Windows to play the games, I've still bought a ton of stuff in the last year due to the awesome weekend sales and general quality of Valve's games. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like they have any interest in making a platform for the Mac, but right now all we have is GameTree and Greenhouse - and their prices and selection are downright awful in comparison. At least they're growing, though...

 

[edddeduck]

There is barely a market for games in the Mac ecosystem. And since Macs can now run Windows, the business case for porting games to the Mac has completely vaporized.

This assumes your average Mac users wants to buy a copy of windows and PC games instead of having a native copy. Even if everyone in this forum would Bootcamp your average Mac user will not (my guess). Hell I help make Mac games (and am a gamer) and I dislike dual booting because I loose my OS X email, services etc when in Windows.

Hardcore gamers yeah they will dual boot but lets face it hard core Mac gamers always had a second PC rig anyway all it has done is lower the number of machines in the room!

Overall I think the intel move (and hence bootcamp) brings more positives than negatives even for gaming on the Mac.

Edwin

This is only my personal opinion though...

 

[0098386]

And for what its worth; http://www.joystiq.com/2009/05/18/gamerdnas-left-4-dead-stats-reveal-power-of-steam-sales-promot/.
The PC version of L4D is doing rings around the console version. It's only one example mind, but a tremendously good game. And isn't there a game called World of Warcraft that took over the real world?
PC gaming is dying, lol.

 

[txa1265]

The downside of the whole Digital Download thing is the impact on the Used sale / trade game market.

I am very active on Goozex (game trading) and it is wonderful to be able to play a game like Legacy of Ys on the DS which took a couple dozen hours for me to work through and be completely 'done' with ... then trade it so someone else gets good value, and in exchange I can grab Okami for the Wii for one son and the latest Naruto Wii game which combined were about the same amount of 'points'.

However, under my desk I have a series of games I would *love* to get rid of ... but can't because Steam & Impulse tie things to your account *forever* ... even if you bought retail! Things like Empire: Total War, Last Remnant, Demigod, etc ...

That doesn't even count the digital games - and I have > 50 games on Steam, and loads more on GamersGate, Direct2Drive, EA Store, PopCap, GameAgent, Impulse and who knows where else ...

 

[Rodus]

There seems to be a growing suspicion on insidemacgames that the next Aspyr port could actually be The Force Unleashed, if this is true then I'll definitely be buying an Aspyr title again.

 

[Eric5h5]

The downside of the whole Digital Download thing is the impact on the Used sale / trade game market.

Whether it's a downside or an upside depends on if you're a consumer or a developer.

--Eric

 

[nhexima]

The loss of resale thing bites - that's part of why I won't buy a retail product that has a limited number of required online activations, like Spore and many recent SecuROM titles that phone home.

OTOH, I've never paid more than $10 for a digital download game. (I even purchased Orange Box, retail, for $10) When I can buy a game like Bioshock for $5 on sale, I'm pretty willing to give up those resale rights, especially since I'll be able to reinstall it on any number of machines as long as the company is in business (Steam doesn't look like it's going anywhere for a while).

 

[neiltc13]

The loss of resale thing bites - that's part of why I won't buy a retail product that has a limited number of required online activations, like Spore and many recent SecuROM titles that phone home.

EA lifted the limits on Spore a LONG time ago.

 

[Brad Oliver]

After what they did to NWN2, I don't think I'm really interested in buying any of their software.

What did we do to it? If you're talking about the (lack of) patches, know that we have one in the pipe to bring us current with the PC, and we intend to try and stay current after that.

Their COD4 port is so much slower than native Windows version it looks like it was just Ciderized

We've paid close attention to benchmarks on CoD4 and we appear to be within spitting distance of Windows on most configs (doing a Boot Camp comparison). The BareFeats benchmark testing seems to show this as well, although admittedly some cards/configs underperform vs. BootCamp.

We had a patch not so long ago that increased performance on some Nvidia cards, so grab that if you haven't already.Can you give me some details on your Mac config? Have you been eyeballing performance or have you been running timedemos? if the former, what parts of CoD seem to run worse for you - multiplayer, singleplayer, a specific level or event really chug?

 

[eXan]

We've paid close attention to benchmarks on CoD4 and we appear to be within spitting distance of Windows on most configs (doing a Boot Camp comparison). The BareFeats benchmark testing seems to show this as well, although admittedly some cards/configs underperform vs. BootCamp.

We had a patch not so long ago that increased performance on some Nvidia cards, so grab that if you haven't already.Can you give me some details on your Mac config? Have you been eyeballing performance or have you been running timedemos? if the former, what parts of CoD seem to run worse for you - multiplayer, singleplayer, a specific level or event really chug?

I have an ATI card, so nvidia patch will do no good. The setup is 2007 alu iMac 2.0 GHz, Radeon 2400 XT and 4 GB RAM. I dont play multiplayer - just the single player campaign and I had to run 800x4xx with everything low-med to get a framerate above 30 most of the time.

Numerous reports say that Windows COD4 runs at 40+ FPS on 9400M at 1280x800 everything near maxed and since 9400M is not that much powerful than my Radeon I wonder if Windows version runs so much better.

By the way, how to run a timedemo? I've tried some commands I googled (timedemo pipeline, etc), but the console always says "no demo file found" or something like that.

There seems to be a growing suspicion on insidemacgames that the next Aspyr port could actually be The Force Unleashed, if this is true then I'll definitely be buying an Aspyr title again.

+1 and lets hope it doesn't run slower than Crysis.

 

[txa1265]

What did we do to it? If you're talking about the (lack of) patches, know that we have one in the pipe to bring us current with the PC, and we intend to try and stay current after that.

I saw your second post, and honestly had no issue with CoD4 with my unibody Macbook Pro. The Mac / PC Bootcamp comparison feels reasonable for me.

However ... NWN 2 feels like it has a horrific performance gap. Most of that testing I did with an early 2008 MBP (max config).

 

[Brad Oliver]

Numerous reports say that Windows COD4 runs at 40+ FPS on 9400M at 1280x800 everything near maxed and since 9400M is not that much powerful than my Radeon I wonder if Windows version runs so much better.

I don't believe that to be the case. Some quick googling shows that at 1280x800, the 9400m can't quite manage 30fps and will drop to 11 in some cases:

<http://optimitza.cat/news/2008/10/16/nvidia-geforce-9400m-benchmarks/>

Edit: Huh. That page links to a review that actually benchamrks Mac CoD4 on the 9400M so it's not an accurate Windows benchmark. My google-fu is weak here - I can't find a Windows benchmark of CoD4 on that hardware at all! Any help?

The best way to judge the Mac version is to run Boot Camp on the identical Mac. That said, we are very competitive on ATI cards vs. Windows. In fact, I regularly talk with the manager of ATI's Mac driver group specifically about Mac CoD4 benchmarks and how we can work together to get better performance. ATI is dead-serious about Mac CoD4 performance to the point where I'm a little frightened.

The card we do worst on for the Mac in CoD4 is the GeForce 7xxx series, and that's because we've had to disable a fast path to avoid panicking the Nvidia 7xxx driver. I have some hope Snow Leopard will address this and allow us to turn this path back on, but I don't know yet if that will be true.

By the way, how to run a timedemo? I've tried some commands I googled (timedemo pipeline, etc), but the console always says "no demo file found" or something like that.

You can only run timedemos from the multiplayer app. I don't know if there's a canonical set of files out there, but we have a series of timedemos that run via the ModWarfare mod. I'm not quite sure whether someone just recorded it here and used that or if it was grabbed from somewhere off the internet. I suspect the former. No timedemos actually ship with the game as far as I can tell.

Here's a link with some PC-centric instructions, but with the exception of the Windows-style file path it is identical to how you'd do it on the Mac:

<http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-wargames/161674-how-make-time-demo-cod4.html>

Hope that helps.

However ... NWN 2 feels like it has a horrific performance gap. Most of that testing I did with an early 2008 MBP (max config).

That's one with an Nvidia 8600 in it?

 

[eXan]

I don't believe that to be the case. Some quick googling shows that at 1280x800, the 9400m can't quite manage 30fps and will drop to 11 in some cases:

<http://optimitza.cat/news/2008/10/16/nvidia-geforce-9400m-benchmarks/>

Edit: Huh. That page links to a review that actually benchamrks Mac CoD4 on the 9400M so it's not an accurate Windows benchmark. My google-fu is weak here - I can't find a Windows benchmark of CoD4 on that hardware at all! Any help?

The best way to judge the Mac version is to run Boot Camp on the identical Mac. That said, we are very competitive on ATI cards vs. Windows. In fact, I regularly talk with the manager of ATI's Mac driver group specifically about Mac CoD4 benchmarks and how we can work together to get better performance. ATI is dead-serious about Mac CoD4 performance to the point where I'm a little frightened.

The card we do worst on for the Mac in CoD4 is the GeForce 7xxx series, and that's because we've had to disable a fast path to avoid panicking the Nvidia 7xxx driver. I have some hope Snow Leopard will address this and allow us to turn this path back on, but I don't know yet if that will be true.



You can only run timedemos from the multiplayer app. I don't know if there's a canonical set of files out there, but we have a series of timedemos that run via the ModWarfare mod. I'm not quite sure whether someone just recorded it here and used that or if it was grabbed from somewhere off the internet. I suspect the former. No timedemos actually ship with the game as far as I can tell.

Here's a link with some PC-centric instructions, but with the exception of the Windows-style file path it is identical to how you'd do it on the Mac:

<http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-wargames/161674-how-make-time-demo-cod4.html>

Hope that helps.

Thank you for the reply

I don't have a specific URL to where I saw 40 fps 1280x800 near Max, but I think that's the impression I got from watching YouTube videos with uMBs running COD4 in Bootcamp, and reading threads here like Gaming on 9400m.

Good to know ATI is interested how games run on Macs with their cards

 

[txa1265]

That's one with an Nvidia 8600 in it?

Yes - though the with new one NWN2 *still* feels quite sluggish. It is a matter of NWN2 Mac feeling like it ran better on the Windwos side of a MBP from 2 gens ago than it does on the Mac side of a current one. (always top memory, top vid card)

 

[alkar]

Brad, I still think it runs faster on 8800GT in Windows... I have both versions of the game and I can do a timedemo + screenshot of the results if you are interested in it... I'll post the results later today...

But for example, the first map in the boat in single player is sometimes crawling at 30fps at the very beginning when dropping the helicopter, while on Windows I remember it was smooth to my eyes (maybe around 50-60fps)....

 

[Huntn]

Gotta agree, Steam is excellent.

I don't care for Steam. I prefer selling old games when I'm done with them and I believe this is prevented after the game is registered via Steam. no?

 

[gfoster610]

Woo hoo a Brad Oliver appearance

I'd just like to say thanks Brad for popping into a thread to answer people's concerns in regards to Aspyr games. I know when I was playing Civilization a lot, you were always around the Civ Fanatics boards to help with issues and concerns. It's always nice to see someone who cares about the products he develops

 

[Brad Oliver]

Brad, I still think it runs faster on 8800GT in Windows... I have both versions of the game and I can do a timedemo + screenshot of the results if you are interested in it... I'll post the results later today...

I am interested, but make sure of two things: you're using the same settings and that the Mac version is using the latest patch. Before that, as I hinted earlier, we were way behind on the 8800 vs. Boot Camp. With the patch, we're only behind by a few fps in our internal testing.

 

[MOFS]

They haven't released any mac games from them for a while, all they keep releasing are pc games.

The other thing that people have hinted at but not explicitly said is that more and more games producers are releasing games simultaneously on the Mac and PC. When I got my iBook, The Sims was an Aspyr port, and Championship Manager 01/02 was a Feral port. Now Sims 3, Spore and Football Manager are released pretty much simultaneously to name a few. Essentially more producers are doing it in house, meaning less opportunity for converters to bring PC games across.

 

[alkar]

@Brad, i've finally run a timedemo (you can find it with this post) both on OSX 10.5.7 + Windows 7 RC with the same settings (same "players" folder actually) and Windows wins hands down !

Settings were 1280x1024 FSAA 4X + anisotropic 16X + everything else maxed. Patch was the latest 1.7.1 (else fsaa is slow as hell and I can tell you now FSAA hasnt much impact.. maybe 1fps or 2 less)

38.6fps on OSX vs 66.4fps on Windows !

Dunno what internal test you are doing but cod4 windows is really much more optimized.

Here is the link to the demo : http://rapidshare.com/files/235670758/d1.dm_1.zip.html

mirror : http://rapidshare.de/files/47249676/d1.dm_1.zip.html

 

[Brad Oliver]

Essentially more producers are doing it in house, meaning less opportunity for converters to bring PC games across.

This is true, but the problem we've always had is more games to port than manpower so in a way it's helpful to the Mac community in general that some of these guys are picking up the slack. Consider all the Activision, LucasArts and Take2 titles still out there in need of a Mac home (when it makes sense, of course). There's still plenty out there for the Mac.

@Brad, i've finally run a timedemo (you can find it with this post) both on OSX 10.5.7 + Windows 7 RC with the same settings (same "players" folder actually) and Windows wins hands down !

Settings were 1280x1024 FSAA 4X + anisotropic 16X + everything else maxed. Patch was the latest 1.7.1 (else fsaa is slow as hell and I can tell you now FSAA hasnt much impact.. maybe 1fps or 2 less)

38.6fps on OSX vs 66.4fps on Windows !

Thanks, I grabbed the timedemo. I have one last favor to ask. Can you e-mail me your config.cfg file? On OS X, it's found in "Call of Duty 4 Data/players/profiles/<yourprofilename>/config.cfg". Send it to brad AT aspyr DOT com. That file contains no personal info, just your settings.

For our timedemo testing we actually stick to the default settings to keep things simple (for bulk testing it's a pain to keep altering it), and our performance is pretty much close to even for Windows in those scenarios.

 

[txa1265]

I don't care for Steam. I prefer selling old games when I'm done with them and I believe this is prevented after the game is registered via Steam. no?

Sadly that is the case ... as it is whenever you buy anything digitally from GamersGate, EA, GameAgent, GameTree, Impulse, Direct2Drive, GameStop Downloads, and so on.

For me, the worst thing is how Impulse & Steam tie your serial number for retail games into your account permanently ... I would love to trade out (via Goozex) Last Remnant, DemiGod, Empire: Total War, Sins of a Solar Empire, GalCiv II, etc ... but I can't. Definitely impacting my game purchases.

 

[Ol3s]

The other thing that people have hinted at but not explicitly said is that more and more games producers are releasing games simultaneously on the Mac and PC. When I got my iBook, The Sims was an Aspyr port, and Championship Manager 01/02 was a Feral port. Now Sims 3, Spore and Football Manager are released pretty much simultaneously to name a few. Essentially more producers are doing it in house, meaning less opportunity for converters to bring PC games across.

Thats cos spore and sims 3 are ciderised, meaning it wont take as long to port them, while before sims 2 was a native port

Brad Oliver, are there any possible new games that could potentially be ported by aspyr to mac, like modern warfare 2 adn whatnot (hey maybe call of pripyat too)

 

[Kaketrinsa]

Hi to Brad, and all CoD4-players.

After some excessive testing, I've figured out the (perfect) CoD4-config.
Taking base in max-settings-framerate (with the 1.7.1-update), it improved mine with 80 % (!) while just turning the graphics-quality a liiitle bit down. Hardly recognizable.

Start by turning up all the graphics. Yeah, even the texture quality to max. Then turn off a few options under the pane 'Graphics':
- Anti-Aliasing. This one can be left on if you have a good computer and have the 1.7.1-patch. Not 1.7, but 1.7.1! Turning off will improve framerate with about 10-to-20 %.
- V-Sync. Err... Err... WTF does this even do? Turning off will improve framerate with 20 %.
- Depth of Field. This is the effect that appears when you aim down the sight. It is also the effect that causes a nice chop in your framerate during tight situations. Turn this off for a 10 % fps-increase.
- Soften Smoke Edges. Here it is! The true frame-rate-killer. Turning it off will increase framerate by massively 30 %!

Here are the before and after on the map Bloc. Photos shot at 1920 x 1200 originally.

Maxed out:
http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179738&stc=1&d=1246266567

My config:
http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179739&stc=1&d=1246266567

The 80 % increase in fps just as I promised! Roughly, you can say that the config will improve your fps with 50-to-100%, but that depends on the map (and especially the amount of smoke).
The framerates are still veeery depressing, considering I have the 2008 iMac top-specced. The game came out the fall 2007. I also get pass the recommended system-specs on the game-cover.

So... Aspyr... Brad... Time to brighten up the game a little more?
I experience that smoke is the worst thing the frame-rate suffers from. If that's my nVIDIA GF 8800 GS, I don't know, but I think there are a few things you could do to brighten the game up.
Shadows that are cast from buildings are all pixelated, while the ones from characters are nearly perfect. Is there a way to fix that?
I'd rather have one bulletproof port than 50 cider-ports.
I hope I'll see a 1.7.2, or something, after Snow Leopard is released. That update should take full advantage of what the OS offers.
Glad one of you guys from Aspyr came out to the people! MacSoft sucks at that...