Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I never claimed they'd be readable, only that there are messages stored in a cloud. Not like iCloud backup, I get that. I know that once the message has been sent if you delete it you cannot retrieve from that device.

Yeah I wouldn't really call that "storage" -- "Buffering" is technically more accurate.

It's not really different to a router which maintains a send-buffer, only that the timeline is longer (days rather than milliseconds).

If iMessage is the courier, that storage is just its delivery pile (all in magic wax-sealed envelopes which are un-openable by anybody but the intended recipient). It can't just read your messages out of there. It doesn't maintain any history. It knows bupkis about what you send/receive - it is literally just an end-to-end encrypted courier.

That's different to most other messaging systems. If I log in to Facebook or Google from any device, I see all my history. WhatsApp works in a similar way to iMessage, but only supports one device and only supports telephone numbers to contact people with (hence no native tablet version). iMessage is way better architecturally - which is why the service itself as functional (multi-device, large attachments, contactable by telephone/email) and as secure (end-to-end encrypted) as anything out there. The one flaw is that new devices don't automatically have your message history, so iCloud backup exists to ease that for the most common case.

I know you probably understand this, but I'm writing because lots of other people don't, or get confused about it. Encryption is an important topic these days.

Anyway, it doesn't sound like WhatsApp is going to break that - it sounds like they want to integrate customer service (which is increasingly going towards live-chatting) in to WhatsApp. That sounds relatively benign, and it'd be interesting if they can improve on, say, banking support with things such as simpler authentication.
 
I'm from the UK too I have the weirdest feeling for iPhones it has been free (or was during a certain period) my friend has an android and gets charged to use it.

From memory I'm pretty sure if you kept the same phone number you received. "lifetime service" meaning for as long as you owned that number it was 'free' forever.

I am also pretty sure it was indeed free on iOS a good while ago; my friend has an Android phone and it was 'free' for the first year and 69p thereafter (like it is/was in later years on iOS).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blujelly
"we've asked some people to pay a fee for using WhatsApp after their first year"

What does this mean, that only some users were asked to pay to continue using their app? I've never used the app so I don't know how this works.
 
Again, you didn't read the evidence you submitted. It directly contradicts the assertion you are still making without any discernible proof. As for their info not stating outright "We index your data to better sell to advertisers", you're wrong there as well (please read your own evidence). They tell you exactly what they do with your data, which is classified as personal and non-personal. The same classifications used by Apple and Google. Btw, both Apple and Google expressly tell you they index your data to better use, not sell, aggregated and anonymous data for advertising purposes. Same as Whatsapp. I can back up my claims with evidence from Apple, Google, and use your evidence from Whatsapp. All you've done is throw out disparaging supposition with no evidence of truthfulness to it. I don't use Whatsapp so I have no skin in the game. But if I make an accusation, I will at least attempt to be accurate.


http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/...tion-practices-whatsapp-and-att-fail-the-test

https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-government-data-requests-2015
 
And still how true.
It is not true. Neither Facebook nor Google sell your "personal information". They sell advertising. And based on your data, and the data of others, they target ads to you that they think are meaningful. There is no grand conspiracy here. Someone has to pay for all of these services and most people are too cheap to pay even a dollar for an app.
 
From memory I'm pretty sure if you kept the same phone number you received. "lifetime service" meaning for as long as you owned that number it was 'free' forever.

I am also pretty sure it was indeed free on iOS a good while ago; my friend has an Android phone and it was 'free' for the first year and 69p thereafter (like it is/was in later years on iOS).

You can change your number as well, but many people just never bother doing that and instead create new accounts. I have used exactly three different numbers with the same account and still have the lifetime service. I actually downloaded WhatsApp while it was free for a few days, back when the app wasn’t really known.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Avalontor and slu
From memory I'm pretty sure if you kept the same phone number you received. "lifetime service" meaning for as long as you owned that number it was 'free' forever.

I am also pretty sure it was indeed free on iOS a good while ago; my friend has an Android phone and it was 'free' for the first year and 69p thereafter (like it is/was in later years on iOS).

Oh yeah that was the one, cheers for clearing it up!

Yeah. iPhone to iPhone I use iMessage and those who have the "other kind" I've always used Facebook Messenger. I don't see what's so good about WhatsApp.

iPhone to other…does…not…compute! Haha I'm quite lucky in the fact that everyone I know owns an apple device, phew! ;)
 
Yeah I wouldn't really call that "storage" -- "Buffering" is technically more accurate.

It's not really different to a router which maintains a send-buffer, only that the timeline is longer (days rather than milliseconds).

If iMessage is the courier, that storage is just its delivery pile (all in magic wax-sealed envelopes which are un-openable by anybody but the intended recipient). It can't just read your messages out of there. It doesn't maintain any history. It knows bupkis about what you send/receive - it is literally just an end-to-end encrypted courier.

That's different to most other messaging systems. If I log in to Facebook or Google from any device, I see all my history. WhatsApp works in a similar way to iMessage, but only supports one device and only supports telephone numbers to contact people with (hence no native tablet version). iMessage is way better architecturally - which is why the service itself as functional (multi-device, large attachments, contactable by telephone/email) and as secure (end-to-end encrypted) as anything out there. The one flaw is that new devices don't automatically have your message history, so iCloud backup exists to ease that for the most common case.

I know you probably understand this, but I'm writing because lots of other people don't, or get confused about it. Encryption is an important topic these days.

Anyway, it doesn't sound like WhatsApp is going to break that - it sounds like they want to integrate customer service (which is increasingly going towards live-chatting) in to WhatsApp. That sounds relatively benign, and it'd be interesting if they can improve on, say, banking support with things such as simpler authentication.

Awesome, I knew some but not all of that about iMessage. Thanks for the information. Clearly iMessage has a lot of advantages over the other messenger protocols.

And yes, it sounds like WhatsApp wants to bring services kind of like many other 3rd world countries are doing with SMS (like banking) or Telegram with its bots (the weather bot or whatever). It's good that there's experimentation going on in this seemingly straightforward medium.

As I'm using an Android for mobile I'll have to stick with Telegram and WhatsApp. (Love my OS X devices and iPad but prefer Android, weird, I know, but it is what it is).
 
Yeah. iPhone to iPhone I use iMessage and those who have the "other kind" I've always used Facebook Messenger. I don't see what's so good about WhatsApp.

There is nothing good about WhatsApp, but it’s the app that most of your contacts likely will have. WhatsApp existed before iMessage and Facebook Messenger, so there wasn’t always a decent alternative.
 
It actually is. I find Whatsapp much better from usability point of view (also I have friends who do not have Facebook and have no wish of changing that state of affairs), and I find the web client very useful (my phone is always with me anyway). Messenger is uncomfortable to use, not to mention bizarre FB habit of deciding which conversations I want to see, which I do not, and what's "filtered". But yes, I sort of expect FB to phase out Whatsapp soon as indeed it makes no sense to have two apps. Also it would force some more people to get FB accounts.

Almost a billion people use Whatsapp. No, they will not phase out Whatsapp because "it doesn't make sense".
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.