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WhatsApp Messenger Implements Full End-to-End Encryption

I'm not in the Facebook ecosystem so I haven't used WhatsApp, is it possible to create an account without Facebook to authenticate?
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KALLT said:
It is controlled by several Russians, but it seems that the web of mailbox companies that Telegram has spun to hide its identity leads ultimately back to the US. What is more concerning is that Telegram is made by Zuckerberg’s former rival Durov, who was in charge of the Russian ‘Facebook’ until he was ousted by Russian authorities. He was as much in the business of big data as Facebook is. Telegram is at least as dubious as WhatsApp.
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All of the clients' source have been released, you can audit the code if you are really concerned. They're continuing to release more too, eventually I expect all of Telegram will be open source.
 
thisisnotmyname said:
I'm not in the Facebook ecosystem so I haven't used WhatsApp, is it possible to create an account without Facebook to authenticate?
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Yes, they are different services, but Whatsapp is owned by FB.
 
If only iMessage was available for Android, I could ditch this crap :( (or maybe I need richer friends with iPhone)
 
Telegram is a great app that I've been using for a years now and it's getting traction, there is still the issue of it being Russian and not fully open source. Also, they're missing the calling feature that WhatsApp has.

Interesting to see OpenWhisper help WhatsApp on this and their flagship app Signal is extremely behind in stability, features and bugs. Also, is WhatsApp open sourcing the code or open for audits?
 
This is a gimmick. Am I missing something? If it's not open-source, their claim of end-to-end encryption doesn't mean anything. For all we know, there could be a backdoor.

Heck, even for things like Telegram that are open-source, are you guys checking your binaries against the source? If not, check out what the open-source project Transmission just did to a bunch of Macs. On top of that, do you believe that the client's implementation is secure?
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Oblivious.Robot said:
At least I trust them more, but on the other hand almost none of my friends seem to switch to it. :mad:
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Maybe they don't care about encrypting their lunch messages.
 
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If you are interested in this area, I highly checking out the EFF's Secure Messaging Scorecard [ https://www.eff.org/secure-messaging-scorecard ], where they rate apps on a number of key security points.

Folks keep recommending Telegram. It doesn't actually score that well.

Personally, I prefer Signal [ https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/signal-private-messenger/id874139669 ]. It's recommended by Bruce Schneier, noted cryptographer and author of "Applied Cryptography", as well as Edward Snowden. One of Signal's developers is Moxie Marlinspike, who lately has helped with the new security in WhatsApp.
 
MH01 said:
It's like encryption has suddenly become a sensitive topic cause Apple pretended to care so much . . .
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Why be so negative and cynical all the time? Apple has been consistently improving security over a number of years, in both hardware and software. With that kind of a track record one would have to be entirely blind to call it a "suddenly sensitive" topic with Apple "pretending" to care.

Lest you think they're just playing the long con, consider this: Apple is about the most secretive tech company there is, and Apple employees use Apple products. Apple, thus, cares very deeply about device privacy if only because it's self-serving:rolleyes:
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MH01 said:
Though the current silence while FBI unlocks iPhone is disappointing
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What do you expect Apple to say? How is them letting the public fracas be and focusing on further improvements in-house "disappointing"?
 
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Surprised to see so many positive comments about Telegram, given its background, whereas Signal's appears to be much better. Granted the app is a lot less feature-full. The fact that the Signal developers were involved in the implementation of Whatsapp encryption, however, gives me a certain amount of faith. Depends how you use it of course, but Whatsapp has a significantly larger userbase which can be a key factor.
 
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MacBH928 said:
How does Whatsapp makes money? it was bought for $18B or so, it encrypts the messages, it benefits 0 out of users?
Does not make sense. Facebook is a data gathering company.

I wish people would switch over to Telegram, but with this PR move, everyone will think they are safe on Whatsapp and there is no need to make the switch.
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As said earlier Telegram is as suspicious as WhatsApp is. Telegram is controlled by Nikolai and Pavel Durov, Russian brothers who made their money with "Russian Facebook" VK. Telegram is a shady company. They have subsidiaries in Virgin Islands, Belize and HQ in Seychelles which effectively hides the true ownership. They have claimed they are incorporated in Germany but that is not true. Their crypto, MTProto is open but backend is closed and can't be audited. Telegram is not normally end-to-end encrypted. Only "secret messages" have end-to-end encryption. If one really wants reliable security then Signal seems better option.
[doublepost=1460013576][/doublepost]Also, there is the matter of Telegram meta data leaks. Is this intentional for big data mining?

Ola Flisbäck, a consultant at Sony Mobile Communications, has demonstrated that although Telegram claims to protect users' data and conversations from "snooping third parties" such as governments and advertisers, the app is actually leaking huge amounts of metadata that make it possible to gain information about Telegram users.
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MH01 said:
It's a bit sad these tech news stories fall under politics , religion and social issues. It's like encryption has suddenly become a sensitive topic cause Apple pretended to care so much and FBI got what they wanted anyway but pretended they needed apples help.
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Apple has always been ahead of the curve with security. iOS brought security first. Mac OS X brought security first. Think back to the Cheetah/Puma/Panther/Tiger vs Windows XP days.
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The Mercurian said:
Ok - is this a concern though ?

My main concern - can I stop them from seeing my contacts ? This is what I dislike the most about whatsapp - that they grab your contacts list
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Yeah, this is by far more important to me than them seeing my messages. Well, would be if I used WhatsApp. I know absolutely nobody IRL who uses it.
 
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Wondercow said:
Why be so negative and cynical all the time? Apple has been consistently improving security over a number of years, in both hardware and software. With that kind of a track record one would have to be entirely blind to call it a "suddenly sensitive" topic with Apple "pretending" to care.

Lest you think they're just playing the long con, consider this: Apple is about the most secretive tech company there is, and Apple employees use Apple products. Apple, thus, cares very deeply about device privacy if only because it's self-serving:rolleyes:
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What do you expect Apple to say? How is them letting the public fracas be and focusing on further improvements in-house "disappointing"?
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Yeah I am cynical , cause part of me is really disappointed about the quality of recent Apple software, it's being rushed out to meet an annual markerting pitch. I miss the old days where it was about quality and not pumping out features to sell as much as possible.

stop the media propaganda and focus again on software quality . Even Apple own engineers have pleaded with management to focus on quality over feature development. Every release is broken with multiple major issues, I have never seen Apple release so many patched after a major update, this is Microsoft territory. Current 9.3 is a classic example.

To get into a security privacy war of words with the FBI , to follow up with a release with security issues....hmmm
 
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Nuvi said:
As said earlier Telegram is as suspicious as WhatsApp is. Telegram is controlled by Nikolai and Pavel Durov, Russian brothers who made their money with "Russian Facebook" VK. Telegram is a shady company. They have subsidiaries in Virgin Islands, Belize and HQ in Seychelles which effectively hides the true ownership. They have claimed they are incorporated in Germany but that is not true. Their crypto, MTProto is open but backend is closed and can't be audited. Telegram is not normally end-to-end encrypted. Only "secret messages" have end-to-end encryption. If one really wants reliable security then Signal seems better option.
[doublepost=1460013576][/doublepost]Also, there is the matter of Telegram meta data leaks. Is this intentional for big data mining?
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You convinced me that Telegram is not "private" either, but I still prefer it over Whatsapp. Why? Simple, because telegram is not owned by a $ 320 BILLION company valued only because of the information it shares. It also didn't invest $20B in an app, then it said its free and we don't collect anything about you.
 
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