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WhatsApp Protests Apple's App Store Privacy Requirements

Daveoc64 said:
The issue is not about trust - it's about having a fair comparison.

Netflix has to show you a privacy label, Apple TV doesn't.
Zoom has to show you a privacy label, FaceTime doesn't.
Spotify has to show you a privacy label, Apple Music doesn't.
WhatsApp has to show you a privacy label, iMessage doesn't.

There are going to be people that see these labels and get put off, but then go straight to an Apple app that collects similar information (or more) without showing a privacy label.

Apple having a robust privacy policy in place doesn't negate this as a problem - all companies have to have privacy policies to comply with the law. If Apple thinks privacy policies are insufficient for third parties, they really ought to treat their own apps the same way.
Click to expand...

So many people claiming that Apple won’t be showing these labels for their own apps, when they actually will be.

developer.apple.com

App Privacy Details - App Store - Apple Developer

Learn about providing your app’s privacy practice details in App Store Connect for display on your App Store product page.
developer.apple.com developer.apple.com
 
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ArtOfWarfare said:
I'm working on making my own social media platform right now, and something I've noticed about every other company in this space is that they harvest absolutely gargantuan amounts of totally useless data. They seem to have zero sense about what data is either valuable to sell or what data a customer appreciates them having.

I intend to collect a decent amount of data, maybe 5-10% as much as the others do, but the data will be incredibly valuable to me delivering a worthwhile platform to the user, it's going to be extremely valuable to advertisers, and the user isn't going to find it creepy that I have it (and it'll be very transparent that I have the data.) It's not weird useless data like your car's license plate or your house address - it'll be information that you'd be perfectly willing to share with a complete stranger.
Click to expand...
You might consider some information useless, but really its those little nuances between us that's the most important kind when it comes to making a sale. Target the individual, NOT the demographic.

Your "weird" data like number plates would enable a potential advertiser to target ads at your car make/model.

Your address would enable them to target products that better fit your social status and budget.

Facebook for example don't just collect data, they re-create you in digital form so they can better sell to you, engage you, and sell you more. I would say there is very little data "wasted".
 
lol... people here are really naive believing anyone is interested in message content. In most cases that's the least useful data because it doesn't necessarily speak truth... it may be out of context, sarcasm, a quote,... all very difficult for machines to interpret.
Metadata on the other hand doesn't need interpretation.
At which time, from which place (most wifis expose your precise location because their IP is geomapped), who are your contacts (obviously) and with whom is most data exchange and type of data.
Crossreference this data with people being close often and/or whom is most data exchanged.
Crossreference this data with usage from other devices (e.g. WA Web) giving insight into desktop usage incl. cross-site scripts
Crossreference this data with users other accounts, e.g. insta, compare with likes given and sort likes into categories. On which ads does the user pause/click, build interest database. Also, repeat above.
Not confirmed but possible: analyse users pictures for content.
 
So if Whats up is private and does not collect information, why don't they just add nothing to the privacy label?

This is the biggest joke I heard, Facebook Inc. paid $19B to offer free messaging service to the world. Yeah right. Someone should start a campaign to abandon this toxic app for Signal. Outside US I doubt many people use iMessage as its compatible with Apple devices only.
 
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[AUT] Thomas said:
Not confirmed but possible: analyse users pictures for content.
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You know this is a really nice one, I never thought of it. Grab all the pictures in the profile pictures to create AI database and faceID database. Those corporates are so evil.
 
MacRumors said:


whatsappiconcleaned.png
WhatsApp is protesting Apple's requirement that developers submit information about what user data they collect to create new privacy labels on the App Store (via Axios).

WhatsApp, which is owned by Facebook, has accused Apple of anti-competitive behavior because iMessage is preinstalled on iPhones and does not need to be downloaded from the App Store, where the new privacy labels will be shown.



Apple has tried to streamline the privacy labels into broad terms such as "financial information" or "user content" to describe the kind of data that apps collect. WhatsApp says that these terms may worry users about the data WhatsApp collects, giving it a competitive disadvantage.

WhatsApp submitted the required information to Apple on Monday, but said in a blog post that "Apple's template does not shed light on the lengths apps may go to protect sensitive information." The spokesperson told Axios, "while WhatsApp cannot see people's messages or precise location, we're stuck using the same broad labels with apps that do."

Apple's privacy "nutrition labels" are part of a wider privacy effort following its iOS 14 update in September. The various updates, such as limits to app tracking, have attracted major criticism from Facebook and there is significant ongoing diasgreement between the companies.

The deadline for developers to submit the required privacy information about their apps was yesterday. It is unknown when exactly the privacy labels will begin appearing in the App Store, but now that the deadline for submissions has passed, they will likely be added soon.

Article Link: WhatsApp Protests Apple's App Store Privacy Requirements
Click to expand...
Couldn’t that be considered false? What the iPhone has is SMS support. You only enable iMessage after you put an iCloud account.
 
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Lots of folks have talked about Apple apps not appearing in the app store. While Messages does not, many pre-installed apps do have entries in the app store. This is the mechanism by which you can remove them and add them back later (whether this does more than just remove the icon or not is beside the point). It will be interesting to see if these apps have the "nutrition label." If they do, then there's no more meat to this complaint beyond the fact that some first party apps are not removable.

EDIT: Sure enough, if you search for Apple in the app store now, all of Apple's apps - including the pre-installed ones - have the privacy "nutrition label" on them.
 
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deevey said:
You might consider some information useless, but really its those little nuances between us that's the most important kind when it comes to making a sale. Target the individual, NOT the demographic.

Your "weird" data like number plates would enable a potential advertiser to target ads at your car make/model.

Your address would enable them to target products that better fit your social status and budget.

Facebook for example don't just collect data, they re-create you in digital form so they can better sell to you, engage you, and sell you more. I would say there is very little data "wasted".
Click to expand...
So how effective are those ads? You've seen hundreds of ads in the past week - how many of those products did you investigate? How many did you buy? I'll guess zero for both.

Whatever random crap they're pitching at you, you have zero interest in it. That's not even remotely effective advertising. Despite all this creepy data that they've collected, they're no more effective than TV ads. The TV ad doesn't know which street you're on or your license plate - clearly, that data is of zero value.

I intend to give you, the consumer, ads you want. I expect you'll investigate over 50% of what I show you, and you'll follow up by purchasing around 10% of it.

Also, I want to mention that I'm currently getting an ad for an EpiPen lawsuit. I don't have an Epipen. I know nobody with an epipen. It'd be hilarious how mistargeted these ads were if it weren't for the fact that we're all subjected to perpetual garbage like this.
 
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ArtOfWarfare said:
So how effective are those ads? You've seen hundreds of ads in the past week - how many of those products did you investigate? How many did you buy? I'll guess zero for both.

Whatever random crap they're pitching at you, you have zero interest in it. That's not even remotely effective advertising. Despite all this creepy data that they've collected, they're no more effective than TV ads. The TV ad doesn't know which street you're on or your license plate - clearly, that data is of zero value.

I intend to give you, the consumer, ads you want. I expect you'll investigate over 50% of what I show you, and you'll follow up by purchasing around 10% of it.

Also, I want to mention that I'm currently getting an ad for an EpiPen lawsuit. I don't have diabetes. I know nobody with diabetes. It'd be hilarious how mistargeted these ads were if it weren't for the fact that we're all subjected to perpetual garbage like this.
Click to expand...
Ok. So because a couple of ads didn't match your needs could simply be down to the advertisers not knowing what they were doing with the tools at hand and just set the item to a blanket target area or that you are not the open book that millions of other are online giving them limited data to work with. Plenty of companies have the tools provided but know sweet FA how to use them properly.

Also targeting people with medical conditions or various other inflictions is against the T&C of Facebook so a blanket advertising campaign is the only way it would get approved. An Epipen is not something commonly used for diabetics though ;)

There is never such thing as too much data about your customers when it comes to marketing. NEVER. They literally want to know what you eat for breakfast. (and thanks to instagram, they do)

FYI I hate targeted advertising, I do feel it is inhumanly intrusive and would welcome back the days of well thought out smart blanket advertising campaigns.
 
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Uhm, maybe we just have to go back to actually paying for apps, services and content instead of relying on freemium stuff based on ads and data-harvesting...🤷‍♂️
 
Commodore 64 said:
Uhm, maybe we just have to go back to actually paying for apps, services and content instead of relying on freemium stuff based on ads and data-harvesting...🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
It sounds like a great idea, and I for one am all in. The problem is, most companies these days aren't content with just selling an app. They want to sell a subscription to have a constant influx of money for years. I would totally pay $20 for the ability to use whatsapp. I would have to think twice before paying $5.99 a month for that privildge.
 
They object even though everyone knows they aren't going to abide by the rules that Apple, regulators, or anyone else lays out. Because Facebook.
 
kb923689 said:
If they're so worried about the labels, why not stop collecting data? Oh, I forgot, it's Facebook.
Click to expand...
People could pay for a good messaging app. Oh, but they are greedy and don't want to spend 1-3$. They prefer to use something free and complain about it...
 
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ArtOfWarfare said:
So how effective are those ads? ...

Also, I want to mention that I'm currently getting an ad for an EpiPen lawsuit. I don't have diabetes. I know nobody with diabetes. It'd be hilarious how mistargeted these ads were if it weren't for the fact that we're all subjected to perpetual garbage like this.
Click to expand...
Epipen is used for severe allergic reactions. As far as I know, this does not include diabetes.
 
MacRumors said:


whatsappiconcleaned.png
WhatsApp is protesting Apple's requirement that developers submit information about what user data they collect to create new privacy labels on the App Store (via Axios).

WhatsApp, which is owned by Facebook, has accused Apple of anti-competitive behavior because iMessage is preinstalled on iPhones and does not need to be downloaded from the App Store, where the new privacy labels will be shown.



Apple has tried to streamline the privacy labels into broad terms such as "financial information" or "user content" to describe the kind of data that apps collect. WhatsApp says that these terms may worry users about the data WhatsApp collects, giving it a competitive disadvantage.

WhatsApp submitted the required information to Apple on Monday, but said in a blog post that "Apple's template does not shed light on the lengths apps may go to protect sensitive information." The spokesperson told Axios, "while WhatsApp cannot see people's messages or precise location, we're stuck using the same broad labels with apps that do."

Apple's privacy "nutrition labels" are part of a wider privacy effort following its iOS 14 update in September. The various updates, such as limits to app tracking, have attracted major criticism from Facebook and there is significant ongoing diasgreement between the companies.

The deadline for developers to submit the required privacy information about their apps was yesterday. It is unknown when exactly the privacy labels will begin appearing in the App Store, but now that the deadline for submissions has passed, they will likely be added soon.

Article Link: WhatsApp Protests Apple's App Store Privacy Requirements
Click to expand...

Don't be misled. This is FACEBOOK complaining. WhatsApp was a more private app prior to the service being taken over. What an audacious bunch 😒
 
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iosiseasy said:
You know they have something to hide if they are complaining about it. The amount of data they are collecting is probably much greater than iMessage... they should be careful what they ask for, it’s going to reveal what a data mine Whatsapp is.
Click to expand...

It may be they just wanna complain for the sake of complaining..

On other side of this, if users are all trusting Apple apps anyway, then privacy lapels from their own apps is not an issue anyway because if it was, then no one would be using Apple apps.

Apple does privacy, so the labels not benefit more to thrd party where they would more likely wanna hide the triuth.. Doing this to Apple own Apple is kina of a waste of Apple is true to their word of privacy.
 
Daveoc64 said:
The issue is not about trust - it's about having a fair comparison.

Netflix has to show you a privacy label, Apple TV doesn't.
Zoom has to show you a privacy label, FaceTime doesn't.
Spotify has to show you a privacy label, Apple Music doesn't.
WhatsApp has to show you a privacy label, iMessage doesn't.

There are going to be people that see these labels and get put off, but then go straight to an Apple app that collects similar information (or more) without showing a privacy label.

Apple having a robust privacy policy in place doesn't negate this as a problem - all companies have to have privacy policies to comply with the law. If Apple thinks privacy policies are insufficient for third parties, they really ought to treat their own apps the same way.
Click to expand...
Actually, if you look in the app store at Apple's apps, they in fact do have the privacy "nutrition labels" on them.

So your complaint is reduced solely to first party apps that are not removable, which is exactly one out of your four examples (Messages).

For my part, I remain unconcerned about how much information the Settings app might share with Apple.
 
Tech198 said:
It may be they just wanna complain for the sake of complaining..

On other side of this, if users are all trusting Apple apps anyway, then privacy lapels from their own apps is not an issue anyway because if it was, then no one would be using Apple apps.

Apple does privacy, so the labels not benefit more to thrd party where they would more likely wanna hide the triuth.. Doing this to Apple own Apple is kina of a waste of Apple is true to their word of privacy.
Click to expand...

Of course customers should see those labels across the board also on any Apple app even if it’s just to be used as a reference point.
 
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