WhatsApp to Let Users Encrypt Chat Backups Uploaded to iCloud

[matt_and_187_like_this]

F*€k me sideways! Passwords, encryption over and over. What am I, a KGB agent?

It's supposed to create the illusion that they're not using your data.

 

[iCyprus]

I would go for Telegram

 

[ruka.snow]

If all you ever deal with is one-to-one text conversations then the imessage and sms combination works well for cross platform chats.

The moment you want to send a photo or video, or chat with more than one person, then carrier MMS charges will kick in for all users, unless 100% of the group are using iMessage.

Signal does the same as iMessage on Android. It will by default prefer to send to a contact via Signal protocol but falls back to SMS. Unfortunately it also suffers from the MMS charges problem.

It doesn't cost a lot to send a MMS. And if I want to share photos I'll just shove it on a s3 bucket or share it on Discord.

 

[janwerbinski]

User encrypts data thinking it's safe but Facebook already has decryption key for this data. Such a funny way to manipulate people into sharing private information.

 

[ColdShadow]

Great move by Whatsapp,disappointing to see Apple abandoning/weakening their privacy measures.

 

[RickDEGH]

It's supposed to create the illusion that they're not using your data.

Exactly!

 

[Jmausmuc]

Right. If you believe that, I have a bridge for sale in which you might be interested.

Here ya go: Forensic guide to iMessage, WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal and Skype data acquisition

Did you even read the link you posted? If backups are encrypted, WhatsApp is the safest way to message.

 

[hot-gril]

I don't get it. Why would anyone who's so afraid of an intermediate reading their messages trust WhatsApp? The E2EE actually makes the product harder to use too, like how the desktop app depends on the phone app running. Other than that, it's a solid app, and it works better than iMessage in many ways.

If you think you're special enough to need to hide things, better use Signal.

 

[hot-gril]

Yeah. I don't know a single person who uses sms anymore. Even grandparents learned how to use Viber which is the most popular messaging app in my country.

People in the US tend to use SMS as the fallback, and I don't see why not. It's lacking in some ways, but it works well enough. The one place SMS is really painful is group chats, where FB Messenger seems to be the go-to.

 

[hot-gril]

iMessage has always felt like a progressive enhancement of regular text messaging. And as that it does a great job and it’ll get even better when regular text messages move to being IP based.

I like iMessage when it works, problem is it's not reliable enough. In rare cases, messages are delayed, dropped, or misordered, sometimes just on one device and sometimes on all. Just a few occurrences of that ruin my ability to trust it for coordinating with people; it's like I'm playing the Two Generals problem in real life. Group chats used to be super broken with some members duplicating them randomly, but I think they fixed that.

Hate to say it, but FB Messenger is way more solid. A message thread on my phone is the same as on my PC 100% of the time, and messages always go through properly. Plus I can log into it from anywhere, and it's cross-platform.

 

[DougieS]

It’s your turn, iMessage/iCloud…

If you have messages in cloud enabled, and iCloud backup off - your messages are E2E encrypted and apple can’t read them.

Main downside to this when setting up a new device is having to manually re download apps and where apps don’t store their app data to iCloud - this is lost.

 

[jseymour]

Did you even read the link you posted? If backups are encrypted, WhatsApp is the safest way to message.

Yes, I did. Did you? Or did you extract from it only what you wanted to see?

 

[InGen]

If you have messages in cloud enabled, and iCloud backup off - your messages are E2E encrypted and apple can’t read them.

I could be wrong here but my understanding is that anything stored in the cloud, including messages, not just “backups” are open to surveillance by both Apple and Law enforcement upon request. Could you point me in the direction to a statement from Apple suggesting messages stored in iCloud are encrypted. My firm understanding has always been that they are not.

 

[ruka.snow]

I like iMessage when it works, problem is it's not reliable enough. In rare cases, messages are delayed, dropped, or misordered, sometimes just on one device and sometimes on all. Just a few occurrences of that ruin my ability to trust it for coordinating with people; it's like I'm playing the Two Generals problem in real life. Group chats used to be super broken with some members duplicating them randomly, but I think they fixed that.

Hate to say it, but FB Messenger is way more solid. A message thread on my phone is the same as on my PC 100% of the time, and messages always go through properly. Plus I can log into it from anywhere, and it's cross-platform.

If people still used Facebook messenger I am sure it would work as you say, but it isn’t 2010 anymore. I have never once experienced the issues your reporting here with iMessage, bu mileage may vary as they say. My mate swore by his favourite brand of router and for me it didn’t even best the ISP supplied one.

 

[hot-gril]

If people still used Facebook messenger I am sure it would work as you say, but it isn’t 2010 anymore. I have never once experienced the issues your reporting here with iMessage, bu mileage may vary as they say. My mate swore by his favourite brand of router and for me it didn’t even best the ISP supplied one.

FB Messenger was the default in college (in CA, USA) and continues to be post-grad. Everyone is assumed to be reachable there.

 

[DougieS]

I could be wrong here but my understanding is that anything stored in the cloud, including messages, not just “backups” are open to surveillance by both Apple and Law enforcement upon request. Could you point me in the direction to a statement from Apple suggesting messages stored in iCloud are encrypted. My firm understanding has always been that they are not.

Apple's iMessage Is Secure ... Unless You Have iCloud Enabled

Apple's iMessage isn't as private as you might think. There's a big hole in Apple's end-to-end encryption scheme, and it's called iCloud.

www.howtogeek.com

Apple makes this very confusing, but it’s spelled out most clearly on Apple’s iCloud Security Overview page:

Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If you have iCloud Backup turned on, your backup includes a copy of the key protecting your Messages. This ensures you can recover your Messages if you lose access to iCloud Keychain and your trusted devices. When you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future messages and isn’t stored by Apple.

In other words, having Messages in iCloud enabled is fine for security… but only if you disable iCloud Backup. This prevents the key from being uploaded to Apple.

I’ve had Apple confirm this in store too

 

[willchris]

Same in my country, Viber is the most used messenger. Which is crazy cause it's full of ads and bloat. I have managed to bring over my family to Signal which is what I use mostly these days. I also use Telegram for a group of friends, which is the most complete messaging app currently imo, if you can ignore the fact it's not encrypted by default.

Really? I never saw an add in Viber and I use it daily because everyone's on it. I don't remember it having a premium option that hides the adds so I don't think that's why. I also know for a fact that my sister would never pay for an app and I don't remember her saying anything about ads ever and that the kind of stuff she would definitely comment on... Maybe it's not the same version for all the markets?

 

[usr0]

Really? I never saw an add in Viber and I use it daily because everyone's on it. I don't remember it having a premium option that hides the adds so I don't think that's why. I also know for a fact that my sister would never pay for an app and I don't remember her saying anything about ads ever and that the kind of stuff she would definitely comment on... Maybe it's not the same version for all the markets?

It truly has lots of them, at least here. I installed the app on a 6s I keep in the drawer and the ads are still there. I think I actually tweeted them at some point to provide a paid tier with no ads.