When will iTunes offer lossless? It's 2015!

[jimthing]

Every published scientific test that I've seen has produced the same results, 256k AAC and lossless are indiscernible even to professionals and even when high end gear is used.

This being the case, how is Apple going to market lossless or higher bitrate music for a higher price to its customers?

Sure audiophiles will love it, they'll pay more and they'll convince themselves that they can hear a difference but what about everyone else?

And what about media coverage? We all know Apple receives a swath of media coverage for anything they do. We'll see story after story unearthing what we already know, you can't hear the difference and Apple will be slammed for upselling snake oil.

I mean why have Bluray quality, when digital download quality is good enough...

Talk about missing the point. Try reading the actual valid reasons for lossless above (and elsewhere online, for that matter), instead of merely adding the old "blind test" clueless and endlessly repeated comment, now heard ad nauseam.

 

[Tech198]

isn't .m4a lossless?

 

[wolfman1357]

I wouldn't want lossless. Too much bandwidth, constrained data plans and lack of storage space for my 23,000 track collection make it untenable for me. I don't care about the difference in sound, so long as I can hear it. I prefer 128kbps for my iPhone collection, so I can fit more on it. I wouldn't mind that as an option but I would not be happy if it was forced on me. Anyway, complaining here isn't enough; give Apple the feedback too. I definitely don't share your opinion.

 

[happyprozak]

I mean why have Bluray quality, when digital download quality is good enough...

Talk about missing the point. Try reading the actual valid reasons for lossless above (and elsewhere online, for that matter), instead of merely adding the old "blind test" clueless and endlessly repeated comment, now heard ad nauseam.

Try reading actual valid reasons? I've read on this subject, including this thread, and I don't see any real valid reasons. Dont confuse your opinion with facts. If you have valid reasons, dont be afraid to list them.

Audiophiles are a silly bunch, very few of them are actually honest with themselves. They are like dogs chasing their tails. I find it fascinating actually. Maybe it's the fact that the brain normalizes what we hear, or that even a few decibles can trick our perception of sound quality but whatever it is, it's fascinating.

And don't bring blu ray into this, videophiles don't chase their tails. I have yet to visit a forum of videophiles talking about nonexistent differences. Yes they pixel peep but you can actually see what they are talking about and there's an acknowledgement that differences at some point become imperceptible.

Good enough is not the same as imperceptible. Good enough is "I can tell the difference but the difference doesn't matter" versus imperceptible meaning, the difference isnt apparent to the end user, only a mathematician can see it.

But please, I'd love to hear how you believe Apple should market and upsell higher bitrate music to its users when they won't be able to tell the difference.

 

[jimthing]

Try reading actual valid reasons? I've read on this subject, including this thread, and I don't see any real valid reasons. Dont confuse your opinion with facts. If you have valid reasons, dont be afraid to list them.

Audiophiles are a silly bunch, very few of them are actually honest with themselves. They are like dogs chasing their tails. I find it fascinating actually. Maybe it's the fact that the brain normalizes what we hear, or that even a few decibles can trick our perception of sound quality but whatever it is, it's fascinating.

And don't bring blu ray into this, videophiles don't chase their tails. I have yet to visit a forum of videophiles talking about nonexistent differences. Yes they pixel peep but you can actually see what they are talking about and there's an acknowledgement that differences at some point become imperceptible.

Good enough is not the same as imperceptible. Good enough is "I can tell the difference but the difference doesn't matter" versus imperceptible meaning, the difference isnt apparent to the end user, only a mathematician can see it.

But please, I'd love to hear how you believe Apple should market and upsell higher bitrate music to its users when they won't be able to tell the difference.

No you have not "read extensively" on the subject, because this very forum mentions several reasons for lossless quality that are NOTHING to do with (perceived) sound quality.

Not only that, but you then go on and re-explain your silly point over again. Really you couldn't make it up!

 

[happyprozak]

No you have not "read extensively" on the subject, because this very forum mentions several reasons for lossless quality that are NOTHING to do with (perceived) sound quality.

Not only that, but you then go on and re-explain your silly point over again. Really you couldn't make it up!

Not only can you not answer my question on how Apple could market lossless, you can't even list a single point yourself, bravo! Well argued!

 

[jimthing]

Not only can you not answer my question on how Apple could market lossless, you can't even list a single point yourself, bravo! Well argued!

Market lossless...Easy. A typical thing Apple would say:
"Along with offering 256GBs of storage on the new iPhone 7, we have gotten rid of the old fashioned and out of date headphone port, so now, using Lightning and having up to a massive 256GBs of storage across many of our devices, you can use the better DAC inside the new iPhone 7 to listen to your music in better quality than ever, using our new Lightning Pod earphones. In addition, using any number of third-party headphone manufacturers we have partnered with who are releasing new products over the coming months, many with optional external DACs built right into their cables, we're giving our users an unparalleled choice of audio options for their future listening needs.
To this end, we have also updated our iTunes Store with the option of downloading lossless quality music at no extra charge, also giving users the option of having better quality sound when in the comfort of their own home, as after extensive research, we've discovered a lot of you have high end stereo and speaker set-ups, and can appreciate the better quality we can now deliver. Again, using Lightning, now gives our users the option of using your own high end hifi DAC should you wish, using our new Lightning to USB-C connection adaptor to Make That Connection™ to the artists you love."

That's just a simple marketing angle. Think for yourself any number of others.

 

[happyprozak]

Market lossless...Easy. A typical thing Apple would say:
"Along with offering 256GBs of storage on the new iPhone 7, we have gotten rid of the old fashioned and out of date headphone port, so now, using Lightning and having up to a massive 256GBs of storage across many of our devices, you can use the better DAC inside the new iPhone 7 to listen to your music in better quality than ever, using our new Lightning Pod earphones. In addition, using any number of third-party headphone manufacturers we have partnered with who are releasing new products over the coming months, many with optional external DACs built right into their cables, we're giving our users an unparalleled choice of audio options for their future listening needs.
To this end, we have also updated our iTunes Store with the option of downloading lossless quality music at no extra charge, also giving users the option of having better quality sound when in the comfort of their own home, as after extensive research, we've discovered a lot of you have high end stereo and speaker set-ups, and can appreciate the better quality we can now deliver. Again, using Lightning, now gives our users the option of using your own high end hifi DAC should you wish, using our new Lightning to USB-C connection adaptor to Make That Connection™ to the artists you love."

That's just a simple marketing angle. Think for yourself any number of others.

No customer is going to complain about having lossless as an option at no extra charge, why would they? The whole issue is that Apple will probably have to charge more in order for the studios to allow it. And then we are back to the original argument, that no one can tell the difference between lossless and iTunes plus even with high end gear.

Wanting lossless comes down to an emotional and not a rational response.

I have a hard time seeing Apple trying to charge their customers more for a bump in sound quality that can't be heard.

 

[Scarpad]

At this stage in my life on my 53rd year I'm pretty happy encoding at 320kbbs vbr thru Itunes, it offeres the best compromise of soumnd quality to storage size with my old ears

 

[naryfa]

I don't have a Macintosh or any other high quality systems, I only use Bose, but I can tell this:

When I listen to an mp3 320 at 80% of the speakers' power, I can hear crackling and distortions.

When I listen to the same song, on the same speakers, and the track is ripped in wav, I cannot hear any distortions. The sound spectrum seems to be fully reproduced without crackles and the speakers don't "pop" during heavy load, as they do with mp3.

I can also perceive the bass to be deeper on the wav track. I can't tell the difference in the clarity of the highs, though. They prove to be equally clear.

Your mileage may vary, as they say... You've got different ears!