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When will Safari be better than Firefox?
- Thread starter broken_keyboard
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I also prefer the look of Safari, and I don't have compatibility issues at all either. It's just too slow, unstable, and is such a big memory hog that I switched to Camino.
Logik said:
No - my setup is fine. It's not dog slow, but it is noticably slower. I was really surprised by the guy who said Safari was faster for him, but I do believe Camino could be faster than both, but I haven't used it for ages. My opinion is not misinformed, I have been using these two browsers for ages, on 3 different Macs. Besides everyone here can see for themselves, and I'll think they'll agree with me.
I'm running OS X 10.2.8, so I use the older Safari. This alone is annoying, and I wish that the 10.3.x libraries that the newer Safari uses would be back-ported. But since they're not, this right away means the Firefox is going to keep getting better, while Safari languishes, for me.
A feature that Firefox has, which Safari lacks, is autoscaling of images, to fit in the window. I find this a very ... ummm ... useful feature.
One thing that Safari could add, which would make it better than Firefox, is when you have a lot of tabs, to just make another row for the tabs, instead of the silly drop down list of the tabs which don't fit. At least the drop down list is better than Firefox's habit of just having display glitches on the rightmost end.
A feature that Firefox has, which Safari lacks, is autoscaling of images, to fit in the window. I find this a very ... ummm ... useful feature.
One thing that Safari could add, which would make it better than Firefox, is when you have a lot of tabs, to just make another row for the tabs, instead of the silly drop down list of the tabs which don't fit. At least the drop down list is better than Firefox's habit of just having display glitches on the rightmost end.
Elan0204 said:
I didn't see anyone answer this question, so I'll answer.
Firefox (and Mozilla) have what's called "Type Ahead Find". Whenever you are visiting a page, just hit / followed by any text you want to find.. like..
/Sneeper
As you type, it will jump down to the text that matches what you've typed so far. It's borrowed from unix tools like 'vi' and 'less', which use this same syntax for searching. very handy!
Another cool thing about Firefox (besides it being easily themable) are the plethora of extentions out there. To install them, you just click on them. Voila. Instant new functionality.
That is so cool, I've been using firefox since 0.6 and never even knew about that!Sneeper said:
Websites that don't work with Safari hardly ever work with FireFox. It's the same old story. Some PC user programs a website and "forgets" to test-run it on other platforms or browsers. So basically, you'll end up with having to use IE and even if you do, some websites will only work with IE for Win.
Good websites work with all browsers. It's that simple.
As for stability, I cannot complain about Safari. Crashes once in a while, but nothing that would bother me much (it's way to rare to be a problem).
And personally, I never liked the interface of Mozilla and FireFox.
Good websites work with all browsers. It's that simple.
As for stability, I cannot complain about Safari. Crashes once in a while, but nothing that would bother me much (it's way to rare to be a problem).
And personally, I never liked the interface of Mozilla and FireFox.
Firefox is better than I.E. too!
If you prefer Firefox to Safari, then use Firefox and stop whinging! I
have to work on the "Dark Side", but use Firefox in preference to I.E.
simply because Firefox is so much better.
Apple's Safari is still very young, give it time...
If you prefer Firefox to Safari, then use Firefox and stop whinging! I
have to work on the "Dark Side", but use Firefox in preference to I.E.
simply because Firefox is so much better.
Apple's Safari is still very young, give it time...
Safari is more intuitive ...
I can surf pretty fast with safari and my Keyboard, I personally do not like taking my hand out of the KB to click tabs and move between those, I just use Command+shift+(left/right arrow keys), if I want to type a new address, just command+l , move to google bar command+l then TAB, Camino has the "Moving between tabs" feature but its command+alt+arrow keys, firefox is with ctrl+tab I guess, but you can't move that easy as with camino/safari, but camino is far from firefox/safri speed, those which IMO are the same for 98% of the sites I have in my bookmarks, I have run benchmarks between those browsers and firefox is not that big difference, as for the GUI ... safari rules, the only little problem i DO have is :
Safari doesn't display my company's website correctly
Sh*t! it sucks when I want to show my friends at work how fast safari is...
Then I end saying that you always have possibilities around browsers
BTW: I didn't designed ...
I can surf pretty fast with safari and my Keyboard, I personally do not like taking my hand out of the KB to click tabs and move between those, I just use Command+shift+(left/right arrow keys), if I want to type a new address, just command+l , move to google bar command+l then TAB, Camino has the "Moving between tabs" feature but its command+alt+arrow keys, firefox is with ctrl+tab I guess, but you can't move that easy as with camino/safari, but camino is far from firefox/safri speed, those which IMO are the same for 98% of the sites I have in my bookmarks, I have run benchmarks between those browsers and firefox is not that big difference, as for the GUI ... safari rules, the only little problem i DO have is :
Safari doesn't display my company's website correctly
Sh*t! it sucks when I want to show my friends at work how fast safari is...
Then I end saying that you always have possibilities around browsers
BTW: I didn't designed ...
AmigoMac said:safari rules, the only little problem i DO have is :
Safari doesn't display my company's website correctly
Sh*t! it sucks when I want to show my friends at work how fast safari is...
Then I end saying that you always have possibilities around browsers
BTW: I didn't designed ...
Sorry, buddy, but as I wrote before, IMO that's just a bad website. When you code using the W3C standards, the website will be fully compatible with all browsers on all platforms.
Doraemon said:
Yeah, you're right and i agree with that, as I said, I didn't have the pleasure to design it, I have talked already in the company about this but the guy who did it, seems to think about MS like a standard, he said "Most people use Internet explorer"... I let you know that I have a big plan behind to change our website, it's not really my task but I know I can do it
Safari has been very stable for me, my pet beef (that must be a mixed metaphor) is that Undo doesn't work for me in text boxes in Safari.
Funnily enough, I just tried Firefox last night for the first time. Out of curiosity, I tried launching it from the mounted image.. big, BIG mistake. It just launched, and quit, and launched, and...
Fine, I'll force quit it. Nope, it wouldn't stay in memory long enough. Tried to kill it via the terminal, but the PID kept changing each launch. Tried to logout/restart - Firefox was cancelling the restart. I was about to do a hard reset, and though I'd give it one last go trying to logout while Firefox was quit and just about managed it. Won't be trying Firefox again in a hurry.
I'd be very curious how it managed to keep relaunching itself.. scary.
Funnily enough, I just tried Firefox last night for the first time. Out of curiosity, I tried launching it from the mounted image.. big, BIG mistake. It just launched, and quit, and launched, and...
Fine, I'll force quit it. Nope, it wouldn't stay in memory long enough. Tried to kill it via the terminal, but the PID kept changing each launch. Tried to logout/restart - Firefox was cancelling the restart. I was about to do a hard reset, and though I'd give it one last go trying to logout while Firefox was quit and just about managed it. Won't be trying Firefox again in a hurry.
I'd be very curious how it managed to keep relaunching itself.. scary.
Okay, your opinion is fact.broken_keyboard said:
Oh wait, your opinion is informed, but that makes it not a fact. Which way is it going to be?broken_keyboard said:
Are you just looking to flame the message boards with this thread and your posts in it? All you have talked about is "better" and "worse" with a couple of speed issues thrown in. What do you want to be "better" about Safari? I shouldn't have even read this thread, but inane posts irk me. Either communicate effectively or don't create threads just to argue on them.
Oh, man, I'm glad you brought that up. Mozilla has saved my ass almost every day just because it allows multiple undos/redos, especially in those text boxes. In Safari, if you make a mistake, it's all over, and your day is f***ed. - Well, yours would be, since you have a bigger pet beef about it than I do.whooleytoo said:
osprey76 said:
Before we continue, let's refresh everyone's memory for two minutes (or less, depending on how quickly you read):
Before Netscape 6 was revealed to the internet world, Internet Explorer was the undisputed (evil) best browser, for its high stability (on Windows systems), compatibility with almost all file formats at the time, suitable interface and features, and acceptable internet navigation speed. There were no browser wars at the time that were worthy of notice, since IE's competitors - Netscape 4 and Netscape Communicator, and a few others - had stability issues and were not as compatible with as many file formats as IE. Nobody stepped up the platform to compete with IE...
Stage 1: The browser wars began with the introduction of Netscape 6. Netscape 6 was designed to compete with Microsoft's Internet Explorer. Though it failed, due to poor GUI navigation, stability issues. Mozilla and open source projects were constructed, debugged, reprogrammed, and sped up. Now Netscape/Mozilla offer more customizable features than any other browser, and have improved to the point of high stability, high website compatibility, customizable interface, and fast internet navigation speed. (Right now, I'm invisioning a classic battle scene in a war movie with soldiers, a black and dark red cloudy night sky, a 100 foot tall flag from each battleground so far, with the browser logo on the flag...and fast heavy metal in the background, signaling that the world reigning standard, IE, is evil.)
Stage 2: The problem with Netscape/Mozilla is: Because it has so many features in its GUI and its preferences, it also became the most complex and hardest to learn browser to use. That opened the doors for simplier browsers to step up to the platform and battle. The first of the two, Safari, was tested in beta stages, recoded, and debugged until it hit v1.0 (and I presume is still being debugged). The second, currently in beta, is Firefox, which is open source and a toned down version of Mozilla. Just like in Safari's beta stages, Firefox is being debugged and reprogrammed, but unlike Mozilla, Firefox has a less complex interface.
We are now deep in stage 2 of the browser wars, where all of the above competitive browsers are well recognized, opinions about each browser become stronger and more varied as more people try out more of the browsers, and the challengers to Internet Explorer - Mozilla, Firefox, and Safari - are all coming closer and closer to being "better" than Internet Explorer. Right now, perhaps the only way we can define the "best" browser is Internet Explorer, because it is still the undefeated standardized internet browser at this point into the war.
So, with all that being said:
These are the browser wars, my man. They've never been heavier or more intense than they are now. We rely more and more on the internet for email, web browsing, and immediate access to information. No, wait... we demand internet access for all those purposes, only now, for pictures, audio, and videos as well. We essentially demand that we have the one browser to do it all without having stability issues or a slow/complex GUI. Not only that, but almost everyone browsing this thread has gotten sucked into the browser wars, challenging every other browser out there to destroy one's own current browser. These browser wars are far from over. Eventualy, we'll be seeing screenshots of Safari and Firefox on news sites, such as NBC, FOX, ESPN, etc., more frequently than now, and the apparent difference in browser interfaces with that and IE will grab people's attention... then they will get sucked into the browser wars.
It's one of the coolest wars ever, because everyone's letting out their own opinions, browsers are getting better and better, and the challengers to Internet Explorer are becoming more and more recognized for their own strengths that meet or beat the IE equivalents.
Test
You dare devils out there .... I am trying Firefox for a while now but one of my favorite websites is really slooooow in Firefox (probably the advertisements). I am still waiting for my G5, can you try the site with Safari and Firefox and tell me the difference. If it doesn't act slow for you it may just be my crummy XP machine.... The site is:
http://www.tweakers.net/
Tx,
Egon
You dare devils out there .... I am trying Firefox for a while now but one of my favorite websites is really slooooow in Firefox (probably the advertisements). I am still waiting for my G5, can you try the site with Safari and Firefox and tell me the difference. If it doesn't act slow for you it may just be my crummy XP machine.... The site is:
http://www.tweakers.net/
Tx,
Egon
Hoef said:
took about 10 seconds or so to load in safari... there was something like 90-100 images to download... good grief..
i use what works.. in xp i use firefox, in os x i use safari until i find a site that wants to be difficult with safari then i switch to firefox..
both work well but i've found the integration with os x to be really nice in os x so safari is my default until something strange happens.
use what is best for you, that's my whole thing with this. but if you have an issue don't say the browser sucks because it's probably just your setup, especially if many others are having success with it and you aren't. realize software isn't perfect and if you have bugs report them so they can be fixed.. it's that simple guys.
MrSugar said:
Thanks guys for trying out ..... Not to use curse words but the site performance in Windows Explorer is excellent
Safari is just fine for me
I have tried mozzilla, firefox, and camino, and I find the GUI's all too dated. Mozzilla looks like Netscape from 1998. I have never found any advantages w/ any opf them, I actually find them slower than Safari. I also liek how Safari is layed out and its GUI and options. I have Safari 1.2.3, and it's amazingly fast, stable, and secure. i have never once had it crash on me. Camino is definatly the best open-source one, and i am not dissing open-source, but I like the usability and foundation Safari is built on. Just my opinion.
Now on windows, it is a COMPLETELY different story. I prefer FireFox on windows, b/c IE has too many holes. The new version in SP2 is OK, but FireFix for Windows is better. I think Mac has Safari down solid, especially w/ 2.0 comeing in 10.4 Tiger. But until MS can get IE to 7.0, which might not happen until Longhorn, FireFox is the best for Windows.
I have tried mozzilla, firefox, and camino, and I find the GUI's all too dated. Mozzilla looks like Netscape from 1998. I have never found any advantages w/ any opf them, I actually find them slower than Safari. I also liek how Safari is layed out and its GUI and options. I have Safari 1.2.3, and it's amazingly fast, stable, and secure. i have never once had it crash on me. Camino is definatly the best open-source one, and i am not dissing open-source, but I like the usability and foundation Safari is built on. Just my opinion.
Now on windows, it is a COMPLETELY different story. I prefer FireFox on windows, b/c IE has too many holes. The new version in SP2 is OK, but FireFix for Windows is better. I think Mac has Safari down solid, especially w/ 2.0 comeing in 10.4 Tiger. But until MS can get IE to 7.0, which might not happen until Longhorn, FireFox is the best for Windows.
There are a lot of people who will dispute the notion that IE was ever the best browser on any platform. This is not like boxing where several organization each recognize a champion and where the title becomes "undisputed' when the champion of one federation beats the champions of the others.King Cobra said:
Huh? The browser wars did not begin with Netscape 6, they began with IE 1.0. If anything, Netscape 6 coincided with Netscape's realization that it had lost the browser wars. You seem to think that the browser wars are hotter than ever at the same time that IE is slated to disappear as we know it. Opinion is not fact.King Cobra said:
Now now, let's all be civil.
A little history though: Netscape 6 is based on the open-sourced Mozilla project. It has very little relation to Netscape 4.78, the last closed-source Netscape release. AOL bought Netscape and open-sourced the browser. If you can't beat the competition yourself, then open it up to the masses. Maybe they can do a better job. The Netscape 6 and Netscape 7 releases are just a certain version of Mozilla with some extras added on. Mozilla introduced many cool features -- tabbed browsing and pop-up blocking. Mozilla uses the Gecko engine.
Safari uses the KHTML engine. Many people were dismayed that Apple didn't choose Gecko, but I think competition is very healthy for Mozilla. When you don't have competition, things become stagnant. It's because of IE's competition that Mozilla/Firefox are as cool as they are today.
But seriously, who cares whatever one you use.. if you like what you use, then congrats. It's like worrying about what kind of clothes labels someone wears. Meh.
A little history though: Netscape 6 is based on the open-sourced Mozilla project. It has very little relation to Netscape 4.78, the last closed-source Netscape release. AOL bought Netscape and open-sourced the browser. If you can't beat the competition yourself, then open it up to the masses. Maybe they can do a better job. The Netscape 6 and Netscape 7 releases are just a certain version of Mozilla with some extras added on. Mozilla introduced many cool features -- tabbed browsing and pop-up blocking. Mozilla uses the Gecko engine.
Safari uses the KHTML engine. Many people were dismayed that Apple didn't choose Gecko, but I think competition is very healthy for Mozilla. When you don't have competition, things become stagnant. It's because of IE's competition that Mozilla/Firefox are as cool as they are today.
But seriously, who cares whatever one you use.. if you like what you use, then congrats. It's like worrying about what kind of clothes labels someone wears. Meh.
Experience, reading other people's feedback on browsers, trying most of them out and determining the strengths and weaknesses of each, you know, places like that.MisterMe said:
And there are a lot of people that would say the same about any of the other browsers. But I already suggested how to define being the "best," and that suggestion (again) is being the undefeated standardized internet browser at this point into the war. If all our computers shipped with Firefox, and most of the websites/businesses out there ran Firefox, then Firefox might be the "best." It could be very well true if a browser is more widely accepted than any others, because it might actually be better, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the most widely used browser is the best. Hence, the suggestion, and not the declaration.
Exactly correct. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove out of that, but these are browser wars, hence, the "war" description I posted earlier.
Back then, it wasn't a war, since few people used the internet. So there was little demand or need for a solid browser, or even competition for one. If anything, back then, it wasn't a war, but little kiddie fireworks.
EDIT: Back then it wasn't even that. You could walk your dog through the playing field and neither you or your dog would get involved in any battles...well, except for cleaning up after your dog's mess.
That's irrelevant. They are hotter than ever because programmers have decided to spend their own time and energy into a project to make increasingly better browsers. IF Internet Explorer goes down tomorrow, say, then the wars would be faught among Firefox, Mozilla, Safari, and maybe OmniWeb and/or Opera. Also, what I "seem" to think is apparently fairly informative, because you asked me where I got all "this stuff" initially.
My advice to you is [1] acquire more knowledge and a developed understanding about more of the recognized browsers, [2] read (a lot of) feedback from other people about the various browsers and their changes, positive and negative, and [3] make sure that after you become more familiar with the browsers wars, you can defend your points about them.