Yeah it’s needs more time in the oven. Hardware and software wise. Always avoid first gen Apple products.
They always get better by the 4th gen and make the 1st gen look like “oh we used that”.
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Where is all the immersive content?
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They always get better by the 4th gen and make the 1st gen look like “oh we used that”.
Like one review of the AVP I read said, “this is the worst AVP that Apple will make.”
I’m still disturbed by the lack of immersive content from Apple. I feel like Apple should have pulled out all the stops to have a plethora of immersive content available, especially since they produce their own content now (ATV+). This, “oh look! We found another 12 minutes of video in the couch cushions!” crap is almost infuriating.
Still interested in checking it out; just dealing with an untimely cataract removal and eye healing process. Next month though I’ll finally get to check it out.
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Make sure yall check out the new Apple Immersive video trailer on the app.
We have the NBA All Star and Super Bowl game coming as well.
Wow at the quality of the NBA one. I watch Xstadium on my Quest 3 but the quality of the Apple one is insaneeee! Whenever they plan to sell tickets to sporting events, I’m definitely buying one.
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I’m not usually much of a sports guy, but I would definitely buy a season pass to MLS if it were released in this format! Thanks for the info on the new releases
The Paris episode by far is the best video yet. Just astonishing. It puts you in view of an activity that pretty much none of us will ever experience in real life nor ever try to perform. On top of that it puts you in the middle of the city of Paris and you observe many landmarks that make you feel like you’re there. There are aerial views of the city that are jaw dropping. On top of that, the way it is filmed and direct you make you instinctively look up and down to really draw you into the film.
Just wow!!!!!! The NBA and NFL footage is incredible. If they could live stream games….😱
Sorry if this has been covered already in the thread - but just wanted to add my name to the list of people who would LOVE to view live sporting events on AVP. I'm big into Tennis and it would be insanely cool to be able to sit court-side (or even better, with multiple possible viewing angles) and watch the action live, or with a short delay. I would pay a stupid amount of money to do this.
Does anyone know what the limiting factor is in doing this sort of live sporting coverage? I've not been able to try the AVP yet as I'm in the UK, but from what I hear the 8K immersive content where you have a 180 degree FOV is very good. Does anyone know how much processing is involved in producing this content, and so whether it's feasible that it could be streamed live (or with a short delay?)
I'd be really interested in knowing whether this kind of thing is possible, as if so, I'm baffled as to why Apple isn't making it a reality using Apple TV+ and their £200bn war-chest...
Does anyone know what the limiting factor is in doing this sort of live sporting coverage? I've not been able to try the AVP yet as I'm in the UK, but from what I hear the 8K immersive content where you have a 180 degree FOV is very good. Does anyone know how much processing is involved in producing this content, and so whether it's feasible that it could be streamed live (or with a short delay?)
I'd be really interested in knowing whether this kind of thing is possible, as if so, I'm baffled as to why Apple isn't making it a reality using Apple TV+ and their £200bn war-chest...
Don't they have more money than most countries? Or do you mean that they're not investing the money because they don't think they'd get a return on it?
Producing content for VR generally and the Vision specifically is an added expense, probably a pretty significant one if it’s going to offer multiple angles. Then you have to consider that sports are among the most expensive entertainments available. The various leagues are expert at prying literally billions of dollars out of fans. There is absolutely no question that the NFL, NBA and the others will charge a serious premium for VR content… and it’ll be blacked out for your local team just like it is on standard TV.
Of course all of this depends on there being a robust market for such broadcasts. That would mean a significant percentage of people owning a VR headset, specifically an Apple headset. But that context does not exist and probably won’t any time soon if ever.
So money. It always comes down to money.
And to add to the money argument.
Most content consumption nowadays is driven by low cost crowd sourced content. That's something we are unlikely to see for spatial content given the massive multiplier on file sizes, not to mention the hosting and delivery of such files at reasonable bit-rates.
Until the platform gets more penetration, apple will have to subsidize heavily to get creators to foot the bill for the new tech, such process cannot be done haphazardly meaning that we are unlikely to see organic growth. They could maybe do something in the lines of tiktok's creator fund once the new iphones are released.
Most content consumption nowadays is driven by low cost crowd sourced content. That's something we are unlikely to see for spatial content given the massive multiplier on file sizes, not to mention the hosting and delivery of such files at reasonable bit-rates.
Until the platform gets more penetration, apple will have to subsidize heavily to get creators to foot the bill for the new tech, such process cannot be done haphazardly meaning that we are unlikely to see organic growth. They could maybe do something in the lines of tiktok's creator fund once the new iphones are released.
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Hosting. I forgot to mention hosting. That single line item for multi angle VR sports will be massively expensive.
300Mb/s for HDR 8k content [1] The newest spec of internet backbones is 400Gb/s [2] And one hour of streaming would amount to 1 TB of data consumption, that is possibly emitting 9 metric tons of CO2 [3]
So roughly 1500 people watching the latest {insert your sport} game live could overload internet backbones, and produce 89 tons of CO2/ hour, 7 times an average American's production. [4] so at the very least ethically reprehensible.
And most importantly to a profit seeking company, would cost 1'280'000$ to fill Madison square garden [5] or 64$/head only for the infrastructure of the data transfer.
We're most likely to see 3D avatars driven by real time live capture than video transmission [6]
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Parkour was decent, not my interests, but cool video. But the new 3 minute teaser with football and basketball is much more impressive to me. Realize how fr away we are, but still hope this is the future.
Watched the parkour video last night. For some reason, I couldn't get the controller to disappear, but it was still enjoyable seeing the three guys doing their thing on the rooftops of Paris. Overall, though, I liked the Faith Dickey highlining episode more.
Watching the new content was great! I’m afraid of heights myself, though it’s funny because if I’m very high off the ground like in an airplane, at the top of a roller coaster or the top of a sky scraper it’s not anywhere near as bad as if I’m just a few stories up. It’s like if I’m high up enough to know I’d die it’s one thing but high enough to know I might live but break every bone in my body if I fell then it really bothers me. Anyway I was just watching the episode and caught myself dropping an “oh s#$%” bomb when the they were jumping at the top of the structure at the end of the episode and caught myself closing my eyes which I never do when watching a regular movie on a TV screen or in the cinema. To me immersive content is the killer entertainment app. I’ve not experienced anything else like it from the comfort of my own home.
I’ll also second the notion that we need more immersive sports content! The clips of the NBA and NFL made me want more ASAP. I’d be willing to pay a premium for more of that kind of sports content along with more immersive video like the few episodes that Apple has released so far. If they had an Apple Immersive add-on subscription that they offered up on top of the standard Apple TV subscription for access to this stuff I’d sign up at this point and be happy to do so if it meant more immersive content arriving for this device faster than the snails pace we’ve seen up until now. Even if I needed one for sports and another for other kinds of series. I don’t think I’d pay for MLS, Golf or Tennis content but I certainly would for NFL and/or college football, NBA, men’s NCAA basketball, NHL and/or MLB content even if all you got was playoff / tournament related sports content initially.
I’ll also second the notion that we need more immersive sports content! The clips of the NBA and NFL made me want more ASAP. I’d be willing to pay a premium for more of that kind of sports content along with more immersive video like the few episodes that Apple has released so far. If they had an Apple Immersive add-on subscription that they offered up on top of the standard Apple TV subscription for access to this stuff I’d sign up at this point and be happy to do so if it meant more immersive content arriving for this device faster than the snails pace we’ve seen up until now. Even if I needed one for sports and another for other kinds of series. I don’t think I’d pay for MLS, Golf or Tennis content but I certainly would for NFL and/or college football, NBA, men’s NCAA basketball, NHL and/or MLB content even if all you got was playoff / tournament related sports content initially.
Multiple issues of which cost is the least difficult to solve. There are huge technological, legal, and logistical problems.
Vision Pro is an over-engineered “devkit” // Hardware bleeds genius & audacity but software story is disheartening // What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right // Why Meta could finally have its Android moment
by Hugo Barra (former Head of Oculus at Meta) Friends and colleagues have been asking me to share my perspective on the Apple Vision Pro as a product. Inspired by my dear friend Matt Mullenweg̵…
hugo.blog
Apple Immersive video format, which enables capture of 3D video in 180 degrees in 8K resolution at 90 frames per second, an absolute juggernaut format with 8 times the number of pixels of a regular 4K video.
That is a lot of bandwidth. How can you stream it? Youtube recommends 150-300 Mbps for a high frame rate 8K video. And that's not an immersive video. Would that require 300-600 Mbps? No country has an average bitrate that high.
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Live sports will be Apple’s secret weapon to sell a huge number of Vision Pro headsets to hardcore fans — but it’s going to be a long & expensive journey
Need necessary industry support with sports leagues and broadcast rights holders
it will take a significant amount of time and money for Apple to strike the necessary agreements with the main sports leagues (NBA, NFL, MLB, Premier League etc) to enable this kind of immersive broadcast experience.
Me: These negotiations sometimes take years.
have to build "a robust production pipeline for live 8K video, which is a tall technical challenge requiring non-trivial investment and specialized talent."
Cameras, production equipment, etc. all have to be designed.
- The experience bar will be very high, which means Apple will have to really customize every aspect of the experience to the nature of each sport to make it better than watching a game on a large 4K television — including camera angles, special replays, birds-eye visualizations, analysis overlays, game stats etc.
"This is a massive canvas for innovation, and it will take several generations of Vision Pro to get there."
Multiple issues of which cost is the least difficult to solve. There are huge technological, legal, and logistical problems.
Vision Pro is an over-engineered “devkit” // Hardware bleeds genius & audacity but software story is disheartening // What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right // Why Meta could finally have its Android moment
by Hugo Barra (former Head of Oculus at Meta) Friends and colleagues have been asking me to share my perspective on the Apple Vision Pro as a product. Inspired by my dear friend Matt Mullenweg̵…
Apple Immersive video format, which enables capture of 3D video in 180 degrees in 8K resolution at 90 frames per second, an absolute juggernaut format with 8 times the number of pixels of a regular 4K video.
That is a lot of bandwidth. How can you stream it? Youtube recommends 150-300 Mbps for a high frame rate 8K video. And that's not an immersive video. Would that require 300-600 Mbps? No country has an average bitrate that high.
Internet Speeds: USA vs. The Rest of the World - Tachus Fiber Internet
The United States is climbing the global ranking for internet speeds. But many of its communities have been left behind. Here's what can be done about that.tachus.comLive sports will be Apple’s secret weapon to sell a huge number of Vision Pro headsets to hardcore fans — but it’s going to be a long & expensive journey
Need necessary industry support with sports leagues and broadcast rights holders
it will take a significant amount of time and money for Apple to strike the necessary agreements with the main sports leagues (NBA, NFL, MLB, Premier League etc) to enable this kind of immersive broadcast experience.
Me: These negotiations sometimes take years.
have to build "a robust production pipeline for live 8K video, which is a tall technical challenge requiring non-trivial investment and specialized talent."
Cameras, production equipment, etc. all have to be designed.
Me: all of this has to be figured out. The short clips they have released are the steps necessary to figure all of this out.
- The experience bar will be very high, which means Apple will have to really customize every aspect of the experience to the nature of each sport to make it better than watching a game on a large 4K television — including camera angles, special replays, birds-eye visualizations, analysis overlays, game stats etc.
"This is a massive canvas for innovation, and it will take several generations of Vision Pro to get there."
This is basically what I said above. People casually throw out things like “I can’t wait to watch the NBA and NFL on this!” As if it’s going to be simple/free for companies to generate the content. The money isn’t a minor issue that’s easily handled. It’s a major issue that cannot he handled at all in a context where a vanishingly small number of potential consumers even have a VR headset. The leagues aren’t stupid. They’re not going to make the hundreds of millions of dollars decision to support this when there’s absolutely zero plausible evidence that they’d ever make their money back.
I enjoyed the parkour video more on the second watch, maybe because I was able to get the controller to disappear (it hadn't responded to my gestures on the first viewing). It was a bit cringe-worthy — not because of the height, but because of my fear that the guys would seriously injure themselves, despite knowing the episode wouldn't exist if they had. Interestingly, I noticed that many of the close-ups were shot on a different day and/or time based on the clouds.
I'm not afraid of heights in situations where I feel there's little or no danger of me falling, like observation decks. But if I'm too close to a cliff edge where a misstep might cause a serious fall, I get nervous.
Not sure I follow. Normally sports networks charge major fees for the rights to broadcast their content. What would their expenses be? I am assume that all of the production itself (staff, equipment) would be provided by Apple?
Doesn’t matter who produces the content. The money is still the issue. Regardless of who’s producing the content it’s going to be a very expensive endeavor. Money that will have to be recouped from end consumers. The leagues will continue to maintain control over it and will impose any restrictions they see fit. So the idea that this kind of content will be readily available and affordable is predicated on a bunch of shaky foundations, not the least of which is an installed base of headsets that can create an economy of scale large enough to make a profit.
I finally got the chance to watch the parkour video. I agree with you and others that at times it was hard to watch because it’s so immersive. I enjoyed the scenes of Paris and even caught a restaurant I’ve been to a couple of times.
The new and improved sizzle reel (I think that’s the term at the risk of sounding Hollywood 🤭) is really well done. All I could think of though is that they had all of the equipment set up to record in the balloon, with the elephants and all of those other sports locations. I wish they had just recorded a nice 45 minute film at each location.