Where To Next From 2009?

[Coloratura]

So I am saving up for a new iMac. Yep, I love my 21” 2009 iMac so much that I want to stick with Apple going forward. The plan is to save over the next year or two, which gives me time to raise the money, because this will be the most I’ve ever spent on a computer.

There are a few things that concern me, though. See, I dove into Apple without looking because I had fond memories of the Macs I had used in school. They were sleek, powerful machines that just worked. I had grown tired of Windows after more than 25 years, and when I got my new (to me) 2009 iMac this year, it was everything I had hoped it would be. I had no idea so much had changed since then.

Modern iMacs seem determined to be ultra thin. As a result, there’s no optical drive. They also took away the chime. I know that doesn’t matter for some, but the chime was one of the distinguishing features of Apple, that little extra bit of uniqueness that celebrated the Mac’s roots.

Looking at modern Macs, I can say they look gorgeous, but the specs don’t seem to match the price tag. Sure, Macs have always been pricey, but that’s because you’re paying for premium hardware, and an OS tailored to your system. I also learned that RAM is soldered on? Hard drives can’t be upgraded? Ports were removed to make it even thinner? Why? For a mobile, sure, but for the desktop that just seems silly to me.

I want to stay with Apple, but so far it seems I want to stay with Apple from 2009, but that can only last so long before even this sweet little machine gives up its own ghost. I don’t ever want to go back to Windows, but if Apple is going to throw out every reason to own an iMac, what options do I have?

I want a system that just works. I want it to be fully functional. I want the hardware to be premium because if I am paying a premium price I want everything that goes with it. So now I am unsure where I will go. Yes, 1 to 2 years is plenty of time for Apple to surprise me with something amazing, but they seem heavily invested in iOS, not desktops.

He wasn’t perfect, and I didn’t agree with every decision he made, but I sure do miss Steve.

 

[mpe]

Not sure if it helps. I also had 2009 iMac years back (it was the 27" model with 2.66 quad-core CPU).

The 5k iMac I replaced it with has been amazing and so is my new iMac Pro I bought this year. Miles better than the 2009 iMac. They have actually more ports, not less.

I guess in both cases the specs for sure match the price tag.

You might be right about the current entry level 21.5" model though, which is a tough sell with 5400rpm hard drive...

 

[Coloratura]

Not sure if it helps. I also had 2009 iMac years back (it was the 27" model with 2.66 quad-core CPU).

The 5k iMac I replaced it with has been amazing and so is my new iMac Pro I bought this year. Miles better than the 2009 iMac. They have actually more ports, not less.

I guess in both cases the specs for sure match the price tag.

You might be right about the current entry level 21.5" model though, which is a tough sell with 5400rpm hard drive...

I appreciate your input. I should actually state what I use my system for. I did initially, but when I went back to fix some sentence issues, I deleted them and didn't realize it until I posted. I use my system mostly for writing, but I also use it for DVD and CD authoring, as well as photo and video editing. I need an optical drive. Yes, I can buy one and attach it, but honestly, what's the point of an all in one if they start removing desktop hardware that still gets used?

In a laptop, I understand, because you want portability, and something lightweight. A desktop sits on a desk. From a business perspective, not having optical media means not actually owning your media, and relying on digital streaming and online servers as well as the cloud to hold your movies, music, and more.

I have about 250 DVD and Blu-ray titles, as well as dozens of CDs. I wouldn't expect to carry them around for a laptop in this day and age, but this is a desktop. Again, the "All" in "All-in-One" is starting to get awfully narrow. A desktop should be the "truck" as Steve Jobs once put it. You should be able to do things on a desktop that you can't do on a laptop, phone, or tablet. That is my biggest concern, that my next desktop will be nothing more than a glorified multi-thousand dollar tablet that locks me in to too few options, and removes my creative choices.

Is this a bit of grumpiness? Sure. I realize technology changes, it's just I want to see changes that benefit everyone, where form follows function, not where function is cut off to appease form factor. "Hey, look how thin our desktops are!" Well, whoop-de-doo, I'll remember that next time I'm taking my desktop on the bus.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"I want to stay with Apple, but so far it seems I want to stay with Apple from 2009, but that can only last so long before even this sweet little machine gives up its own ghost. I don’t ever want to go back to Windows, but if Apple is going to throw out every reason to own an iMac, what options do I have?"

You either buy a new/refurbished iMac and "adopt to the changes"...
or
You buy something else (other than Apple).

If your budget is limited and you're interested in a 21", I'd suggest:
- look at 2017 Apple-refurbished 21" iMacs.

But even so, when it comes time to buy:
- DO NOT buy an iMac with only a platter-based HDD inside.
- instead, get an SSD, even if it's the smallest one they offer (256gb).

That's the single most important component for moving towards the years ahead.

If you need CD/DVD capabilities, buy an external USB drive.
They're cheap, and the 3rd party drives will work as good (or even better than) the Apple Superdrive (I would NOT recommend the Apple CD/DVD).

 

[Coloratura]

OP wrote:
"I want to stay with Apple, but so far it seems I want to stay with Apple from 2009, but that can only last so long before even this sweet little machine gives up its own ghost. I don’t ever want to go back to Windows, but if Apple is going to throw out every reason to own an iMac, what options do I have?"

You either buy a new/refurbished iMac and "adopt to the changes"...
or
You buy something else (other than Apple).

If your budget is limited and you're interested in a 21", I'd suggest:
- look at 2017 Apple-refurbished 21" iMacs.

But even so, when it comes time to buy:
- DO NOT buy an iMac with only a platter-based HDD inside.
- instead, get an SSD, even if it's the smallest one they offer (256gb).

That's the single most important component for moving towards the years ahead.

If you need CD/DVD capabilities, buy an external USB drive.
They're cheap, and the 3rd party drives will work as good (or even better than) the Apple Superdrive (I would NOT recommend the Apple CD/DVD).

I guess it’s inevitable, then, that an external drive will be needed for CD/DVD authoring.

 

[Coloratura]

I went and looked up the price of external DVD drives, and you're not kidding! $30 for a decent drive and it would even match a modern iMac. Honestly, if there was a way to bring back the chime when you boot up, I might be better off than I thought. lol

Also, yeah, I am on a budget, but if I buy a 21" 2017 in either late 2018 or early 2019, I would be in great shape for a very long time, as I would make my dollar stretch much farther. I've seen some computer reviews say that Apple should discontinue the 21" as it's too small, but I think it's more than generous for my needs. While I would certainly *love* a big 27" screen, I'm a writer and occasional video and photo editor. I don't need massive screen space.

As for everything else, it's possible I've been reading way too many articles about the Mac being doomed. It's just that I love this little iMac, and I love the Mac OS, and don't like the idea that I came on board right about the time everyone else was jumping off and running away.

 

[Guy Clark]

If you are going for the 27" 5k iMac take a look at the mid 2017 model

The advantage is in a couple of years time you should be able to purchase a mid 2017 27" 5k iMac for a fraction of the original retail price
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...7-inch-aluminum-retina-5k-mid-2017-specs.html

 

[Coloratura]

If you are going for the 27" 5k iMac take a look at the mid 2017 model

The advantage is in a couple of years time you should be able to purchase a mid 2017 27" 5k iMac for a fraction of the original retail price
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...7-inch-aluminum-retina-5k-mid-2017-specs.html

Oh, those would be lovely, but my budget will be more in the $900 range maximum. That’s why it will take me over a year to save.

 

[padams35]

I also learned that RAM is soldered on? Hard drives can’t be upgraded? Ports were removed to make it even thinner? Why? For a mobile, sure, but for the desktop that just seems silly to me.

RAM is only soldered on the 2013-2015 21.5" machines, but the 2012/2017 21.5" models are at best technical serviceable. The 27"/5K machines still have user accessible ram access doors. Hard drives are almost as upgradable as in a 2009, but adding a USB 3 drive is a lot simpler.

Oh, those would be lovely, but my budget will be more in the $900 range maximum. That’s why it will take me over a year to save.

Ouch. That should cover an entry off-the-shelf 2017 21.5" but probably not one with any built to order upgrades. More likely $900 max will get either a 2015 21.5" or a 2013 27", both of which are just starting to drop into your range. A 2017 4K or 2015 5K would probably require either a slightly larger budget or a somewhat longer wait.

 

[Coloratura]

RAM is only soldered on the 2013-2015 21.5" machines, but the 2012/2017 21.5" models are at best technical serviceable. The 27"/5K machines still have user accessible ram access doors. Hard drives are almost as upgradable as in a 2009, but adding a USB 3 drive is a lot simpler.



Ouch. That should cover an entry off-the-shelf 2017 21.5" but probably not one with any built to order upgrades. More likely $900 max will get either a 2015 21.5" or a 2013 27", both of which are just starting to drop into your range. A 2017 4K or 2015 5K would probably require either a slightly larger budget or a somewhat longer wait.

I could live with a 2013 27”.

Seriously, though, I find a 21.5” screen more than adequate for my needs.

 

[Fishrrman]

The OP wrote:
"I could live with a 2013 27”.
Seriously, though, I find a 21.5” screen more than adequate for my needs."

Get a 27" if you can. Once you have it, you'll be VERY happy that you did.
The other benefit of a 27" model is that the RAM is user-upgradeable.

If you get a 2013 model, and IF it has only a platter-based drive inside, it can be very easily upgraded to an SSD by adding an EXTERNAL USB3 SSD such as the Samsung t5.

If you do this, it will run much MUCH faster...!

 

[Plutonius]

So I am saving up for a new iMac. Yep, I love my 21” 2009 iMac so much that I want to stick with Apple going forward. The plan is to save over the next year or two, which gives me time to raise the money, because this will be the most I’ve ever spent on a computer.

There are a few things that concern me, though. See, I dove into Apple without looking because I had fond memories of the Macs I had used in school. They were sleek, powerful machines that just worked. I had grown tired of Windows after more than 25 years, and when I got my new (to me) 2009 iMac this year, it was everything I had hoped it would be. I had no idea so much had changed since then.

Modern iMacs seem determined to be ultra thin. As a result, there’s no optical drive. They also took away the chime. I know that doesn’t matter for some, but the chime was one of the distinguishing features of Apple, that little extra bit of uniqueness that celebrated the Mac’s roots.

Looking at modern Macs, I can say they look gorgeous, but the specs don’t seem to match the price tag. Sure, Macs have always been pricey, but that’s because you’re paying for premium hardware, and an OS tailored to your system. I also learned that RAM is soldered on? Hard drives can’t be upgraded? Ports were removed to make it even thinner? Why? For a mobile, sure, but for the desktop that just seems silly to me.

I want to stay with Apple, but so far it seems I want to stay with Apple from 2009, but that can only last so long before even this sweet little machine gives up its own ghost. I don’t ever want to go back to Windows, but if Apple is going to throw out every reason to own an iMac, what options do I have?

I want a system that just works. I want it to be fully functional. I want the hardware to be premium because if I am paying a premium price I want everything that goes with it. So now I am unsure where I will go. Yes, 1 to 2 years is plenty of time for Apple to surprise me with something amazing, but they seem heavily invested in iOS, not desktops.

He wasn’t perfect, and I didn’t agree with every decision he made, but I sure do miss Steve.

As far as the iMac, I think it's assumed that you will not upgrade it.

Apple sells a portable DvD so you do not need one built in. People who buy an iMac should buy one with enough RAM and a hard drive to meet their estimated future needs. What ports do you need that aren't on the current iMac ?

 

[EugW]

If and when it is released, get a 2018 27" Core i5-8400 hex-core iMac, and upgrade the RAM yourself (assuming it's possible). Then buy yourself an external USB optical drive. Do not get a Fusion drive model iMac. SSD is strongly recommended. If you must get Fusion, then the bare minimum is a 2 TB model, since they come with at least 128 GB SSD. The 1 TB model has a 32 GB SSD. This is subject to change though with the 2018 models.

If you can wait until 2019, then you can get the 2018 iMac on the refurb store to save some money.

 

[Coloratura]

The OP wrote:
"I could live with a 2013 27”.
Seriously, though, I find a 21.5” screen more than adequate for my needs."

Get a 27" if you can. Once you have it, you'll be VERY happy that you did.
The other benefit of a 27" model is that the RAM is user-upgradeable.

If you get a 2013 model, and IF it has only a platter-based drive inside, it can be very easily upgraded to an SSD by adding an EXTERNAL USB3 SSD such as the Samsung t5.

If you do this, it will run much MUCH faster...!

You’re right. I browsed through the 21.5 selections, and none of them were upgradeable. So 27” will be the next jump, but I might have to wait longer.

As far as the iMac, I think it's assumed that you will not upgrade it.

Apple sells a portable DvD so you do not need one built in. People who buy an iMac should buy one with enough RAM and a hard drive to meet their estimated future needs. What ports do you need that aren't on the current iMac ?

Turns out none! I was worried for nothing on that one. A friend had warned me that the newer iMacs replaced USB 3 with something else.

If and when it is released, get a 2018 27" Core i5-8400 hex-core iMac, and upgrade the RAM yourself (assuming it's possible). Then buy yourself an external USB optical drive. Do not get a Fusion drive model iMac. SSD is strongly recommended. If you must get Fusion, then the bare minimum is a 2 TB model, since they come with at least 128 GB SSD. The 1 TB model has a 32 GB SSD. This is subject to change though with the 2018 models.

If you can wait until 2019, then you can get the 2018 iMac on the refurb store to save some money.

I will be waiting until 2019 or even 2020. If I save carefully, I will have a slightly bigger budget, which will help.

 

[Fried Chicken]

I posted in another thread:
A 2012 iMac with the GTX680MX is an amazing machine for the price.
You don't have to spend $2-3k to get an amazing computer, and I think they can even be had for less than $1k.

 

[Coloratura]

I posted in another thread:
A 2012 iMac with the GTX680MX is an amazing machine for the price.
You don't have to spend $2-3k to get an amazing computer, and I think they can even be had for less than $1k.

That sounds good. I don’t need screaming high end, just a system that can handle current demands. My 2009 does okay with that, but since it maxes out at 8GB of RAM, it won’t be long before that isn’t sufficient. Heck, Chrome eats 8GB of RAM without even trying.

Staying with Mac is my goal because I never want to go back to Windows. Ever.

 

[Fried Chicken]

That sounds good. I don’t need screaming high end, just a system that can handle current demands. My 2009 does okay with that, but since it maxes out at 8GB of RAM, it won’t be long before that isn’t sufficient. Heck, Chrome eats 8GB of RAM without even trying.

Staying with Mac is my goal because I never want to go back to Windows. Ever.

The "advantage" of the 1440p screen is that the graphics cards to drive a 5k iMac didn't appear until later in the lineup. A 2013 doesn't really have the graphics power to drive the 5k display.

Furthermore apple switched from super nvidia graphics to AMD graphics for the generations after 2012. In short, I'm quite happy with my 2012 iMac.

 

[Coloratura]

The "advantage" of the 1440p screen is that the graphics cards to drive a 5k iMac didn't appear until later in the lineup. A 2013 doesn't really have the graphics power to drive the 5k display.

Furthermore apple switched from super nvidia graphics to AMD graphics for the generations after 2012. In short, I'm quite happy with my 2012 iMac.

I used to be an AMD person, but it has always seemed to me that Intel and Nvidia work extraordinarily well together.

 

[MBAir2010]

You are not focusing on an important aspect of a mac, what OSX do you need?
Then go from there.
Im satisfied with el capitan, then i get a mac than can run that OSX

 

[Coloratura]

You are not focusing on an important aspect of a mac, what OSX do you need?
Then go from there.
Im satisfied with el capitan, then i get a mac than can run that OSX

You know what? I’ve never considered it. I have been with Microsoft Windows for so many years, I am used to the next version being the better one, well in theory anyway. I do like El Capitan, but I am a writer, and the writing programs I use tend to evolve with each new OS.

Of course, not every upgrade is going to bring features I need, but it’s nice to have the option.

 

[MBAir2010]

You know what? I’ve never considered it. I have been with Microsoft Windows for so many years, I am used to the next version being the better one, well in theory anyway. I do like El Capitan, but I am a writer, and the writing programs I use tend to evolve with each new OS.

Of course, not every upgrade is going to bring features I need, but it’s nice to have the option.

If you write, pages is a must for mac users.
Sierra, High sierra edits and saves on mutlimacs, elcapitan has issues, but that could be me- im trying to get help on this using elcappitan, but no one really cares.

 

[Fried Chicken]

You are not focusing on an important aspect of a mac, what OSX do you need?
Then go from there.
Im satisfied with el capitan, then i get a mac than can run that OSX

I just upgraded from El Capitan to High Sierra.

High Sierra is genuinely good. The new mission control API is amazingly good.

[edit]

HFS+ FTW

 

[Coloratura]

If you write, pages is a must for mac users.
Sierra, High sierra edits and saves on mutlimacs, elcapitan has issues, but that could be me- im trying to get help on this using elcappitan, but no one really cares.

Ouch. I have been told Pages is very good, but it won’t run on El Capitan, and my iMac is an early 2009, which is outside the upgrade window.

 

[Fishrrman]

The OP wrote:
"I have been told Pages is very good, but it won’t run on El Capitan, and my iMac is an early 2009, which is outside the upgrade window."

An older version of Pages will run just fine on El Capitan.
You just have to have the right version.
If you can't get an older version from Apple -- get it (cough choke) somewhere else.

 

[Coloratura]

The OP wrote:
"I have been told Pages is very good, but it won’t run on El Capitan, and my iMac is an early 2009, which is outside the upgrade window."

An older version of Pages will run just fine on El Capitan.
You just have to have the right version.
If you can't get an older version from Apple -- get it (cough choke) somewhere else.

I, uh, looked elsewhere but couldn't find it. So if I really want Pages, I can just buy the iWork '09 suite from Amazon or something. If it's as good as people say it is, it would be worth the relatively inexpensive purchase.