Where'd all the Power Mac G4s go?

[Nameci]

Go to the intel forum, we don't want your kind 'round here.

LOL @ "worthless for even general purpose computing"! I've been using my Powerbook for three days straight for internet browsing with about 3-7 tabs open and it works plenty fast, I'd like to see how well a quad G5 that is "worthless even for general computing" could do, probably more than 12 tabs on a good browser.

12 tabs on a my quad G5 with 16GB RAM, are you kidding me? The thing just never stops working, and working hard. On a normal day I cannot even use all of that horsepower and RAM.

Let him talk about "worthless even for general computing", but the fact is, these machines are still workhorses and they are still worth every penny and every dollar I have spent on them.

 

[powermi]

Let him talk about "worthless even for general computing", but the fact is, these machines are still workhorses and they are still worth every penny and every dollar I have spent on them.

i saw in your signature that you have a great quad G5! are you getting some spares for other computers in case of any component from yours dies?
i love the G5s, but i prefer at the moment to stay with the G4s just for reliability.
other thing that i hate from the G5s is the power drain. its crazy!

 

[thekev]

I'm in the south central Texas area as well, and I know what you mean; older Macs are far and few inbetween around here, I guess this demographic didn't really start buying them until the iPhone halo-effect came around.

I've personally purchased all of my older macs off of eBay, due to the lack of selection locally. (That, or the immense level of ignorance these people display. A 12 year old iBook G3 is not and never will be, "A screaming-fast state of the art "Apple MACBook PRO" worth $750. )

Someone really posted that? Using a phrase like "state of the art" clearly means it was someone out to scam old people.

 

[Nameci]

i saw in your signature that you have a great quad G5! are you getting some spares for other computers in case of any component from yours dies?
i love the G5s, but i prefer at the moment to stay with the G4s just for reliability.
other thing that i hate from the G5s is the power drain. its crazy!

I have spares absolutely for my PowerPC Macs, gfx cards, LoBo and CPU for my MDD's, LoBo and CPU as well for my PCI gfx G4 and B&W G3. Screen, fan and battery for my PB G4. Damn I have a spare 2.3GHz DC PMG5. So if my quad hits the ditch I would just have to put in the drives, memory and gfx card and I will be back online again. I have spare hard drives, RAM sticks, cables and whatnot. I guess my PowerPC Macs can live as long as another 10 years more.

In my place power is cheap so I don't mind much about it and I let the machine sleep when I am not using it.

 

[powermi]

Nice to see people that is going to keep powerpc alive as long as they can. same for me, cause i have spares for my ibook, my powerbook, and my powermacs G4.

Here the power is quite expensive, so thats why we can not keep a power huge machine working, like the G5, all the day.

i would like to shell my x86 machine and get the power of the Quad G5, but i would have look for a good g4 cpu instead.

 

[rampancy]

Now I'm looking for one and there's not a one on CL! I prefer a MDD, next a QS, but nothing! There's a few iMac G4s for around $70, so I may try that, but I was really wanting a MDD...Is this what's going on in the rest of the country? This is in South and Central Texas.

FWIW, I've seen the exact opposite in Toronto. One of my favourite used computer/electronics surplus shops has an entire top shelf filled with Power Mac G4s, and I still see people listing Sawtooths and Digital Audios on Kijiji/CL. Haven't seen a lot of Mystics, MDDs or Quicksilvers though.

A 12 year old iBook G3 is not and never will be, "A screaming-fast state of the art "Apple MACBook PRO" worth $750. )

I know what you mean, as I've seen similar ads on Kijiji here out East (One ad even insisted that these Macs "do NOT depreciate"). What amazes me is that early model MacBooks, particularly the Core Duo MacBooks, have apparently stabilized over the past few years at around $300-450, which is crazy, as used unibody MacBook/Pros can be had for just a little bit more money.

Why get a Quicksilver when the Digital Audio is pretty close to the same (if not exactly the same) internals as the QS? It will probably be cheaper also.

I don't know about anyone else, but my heavily biased idea on G4 tower buying is as follows:

1. Mirrored Drive Door models, especially the 2003 model which is the fastest OS 9-only rig you'll find.

2. The G4 Gigabit Ethernet model, because it can hold 2 GB of RAM under OS X. RAM tends to be the great equalizer on OS X.

3. The Digital Audio model, since it shares pretty much the same internals with the Quicksilver.

IMHO, from what I recall from posts on the Apple discussion forums, the power supplies on Macs right from the Digital Audio era had a quirk that was related to Apple's implementation of ADC: since ADC provided power over its connection, and you were supposed to plug your ADC monitor into your Mac, the Mac's power supply would continue to directly supply current (To the monitor) even if it was switched off. This apparently puts undue strain on the internal components of the power supply, reducing their longevity. I can't of course make sweeping generalities, but it's gotten me wondering, as in my own observations I've seen a lot of people complaining about power supplies in their QS and DA Macs failing in recent years. I absolutely love the MDD Power Mac too, but its notoriously flaky power supply also gives me pause. People have been able to get around the power supply situation by hacking ATX power supplies into their Macs, but those seem to be incredibly difficult, not to mention that they seem to require some significant case hacking.

 

[ihuman:D]

12 tabs on a my quad G5 with 16GB RAM, are you kidding me? The thing just never stops working, and working hard. On a normal day I cannot even use all of that horsepower and RAM.

Let him talk about "worthless even for general computing", but the fact is, these machines are still workhorses and they are still worth every penny and every dollar I have spent on them.

Lol I know, it was just an example.

 

[spyguy10709]

I've been wanting a Power Mac G4 for a couple of years now. I almost bought one on CL about 4 or 5 months ago then totaled my car, so that took priority.

Now I'm looking for one and there's not a one on CL! I prefer a MDD, next a QS, but nothing! There's a few iMac G4s for around $70, so I may try that, but I was really wanting a MDD.

Is this what's going on in the rest of the country? This is in South and Central Texas.

They simultaneously imploded. I'm pretty sure.

 

[MisterKeeks]

IMHO, from what I recall from posts on the Apple discussion forums, the power supplies on Macs right from the Digital Audio era had a quirk that was related to Apple's implementation of ADC: since ADC provided power over its connection, and you were supposed to plug your ADC monitor into your Mac, the Mac's power supply would continue to directly supply current (To the monitor) even if it was switched off. This apparently puts undue strain on the internal components of the power supply, reducing their longevity. I can't of course make sweeping generalities, but it's gotten me wondering, as in my own observations I've seen a lot of people complaining about power supplies in their QS and DA Macs failing in recent years. I absolutely love the MDD Power Mac too, but its notoriously flaky power supply also gives me pause. People have been able to get around the power supply situation by hacking ATX power supplies into their Macs, but those seem to be incredibly difficult, not to mention that they seem to require some significant case hacking.

I believe you are correct about the ADC issues. Additionally, power is consumed while the power supply fans are not running.

I don't know too much about the MDD PSU modifications, but the adapters for the cables are ready made, and mounting it couldn't be too hard.

 

[rampancy]

I don't know too much about the MDD PSU modifications, but the adapters for the cables are ready made, and mounting it couldn't be too hard.

It's a shame, because the DA and QS Power Mac G4s are really good for performance, otherwise. Other than that though, I feel that any MDD, DA or QS Power Mac G4 out there on the used market is living on borrowed time due to the power supply issue.

In my cursory research, I've found this site, which not only provides the pinouts but also custom made adapter cables too. (I'm sure he'd ship outside the US if you ask him nicely enough and agree to pay shipping.) For Sawtooth, QS, and DA Power Mac G4s, I'm sure that mounting an ATX power supply wouldn't be prohibitively difficult as there's enough room inside the case for one – it'd just be a matter of doing some case modding to adjust for differences in the fan placement.

The problem with the MDD is that the power supply had a non-standard slim rectangular form factor, and the rest of the internal layout was designed around that; mounting an ATX power supply inside an MDD would be really hard to do. ATXG4 suggests putting it atop the optical drive bay (at the risk of conflicting with the space for the graphics card), but you'd have to do some serious case modding to ensure that the power supply gets enough airflow.

 

[ihuman:D]

It's a shame, because the DA and QS Power Mac G4s are really good for performance, otherwise. Other than that though, I feel that any MDD, DA or QS Power Mac G4 out there on the used market is living on borrowed time due to the power supply issue.

In my cursory research, I've found this site, which not only provides the pinouts but also custom made adapter cables too. (I'm sure he'd ship outside the US if you ask him nicely enough and agree to pay shipping.) For Sawtooth, QS, and DA Power Mac G4s, I'm sure that mounting an ATX power supply wouldn't be prohibitively difficult as there's enough room inside the case for one – it'd just be a matter of doing some case modding to adjust for differences in the fan placement.

The problem with the MDD is that the power supply had a non-standard slim rectangular form factor, and the rest of the internal layout was designed around that; mounting an ATX power supply inside an MDD would be really hard to do. ATXG4 suggests putting it atop the optical drive bay (at the risk of conflicting with the space for the graphics card), but you'd have to do some serious case modding to ensure that the power supply gets enough airflow.

But that's only if they are being used with/have been used continuously with a display via ADC.

 

[rampancy]

But that's only if they are being used with/have been used continuously with a display via ADC.

I don't think it matters whether or not there's an ADC monitor plugged into it, if there's still power being supplied over those wires.

 

[ihuman:D]

I don't think it matters whether or not there's an ADC monitor plugged into it, if there's still power being supplied over those wires.

If there is no ADC GPU then the power wouldn't be going anywhere, would it? (I'm seriously asking a question, not being narky)

 

[MysticCow]

If there is no ADC GPU then the power wouldn't be going anywhere, would it?

So if the graphics card doesn't use ADC, then the power input wouldn't be as extreme?

 

[ihuman:D]

So if the graphics card doesn't use ADC, then the power input wouldn't be as extreme?

I wouldn't think so myself but I'm not really sure at all.

 

[GizmoDVD]

FWhat amazes me is that early model MacBooks, particularly the Core Duo MacBooks, have apparently stabilized over the past few years at around $300-450, which is crazy, as used unibody MacBook/Pros can be had for just a little bit more money.

They can still run Lion which is pretty crazy.

I've picked up several Core Duo's for $100 and either fix them and sell them to co-workers or trade them away. Fantastic little computers.

I recently sold my 12" Powerbook G4 for $300 on CL. I just listed it and had 3 calls within an hour! It paid for my better spec'd 15" Powerbook G4 (1.67ghz, 2GB RAM) I bought the day before for $120... I was pretty stunned. Battery was dead as a doornail too.

Really, some of these CL ads may seem silly to us, but people do buy. They see Mac and go 'Wow! That's cheap!'.

 

[Cox Orange]

...on Kijiji ... What amazes me is that early model MacBooks, particularly the Core Duo MacBooks, have apparently stabilized over the past few years at around $300-450, which is crazy, ...

Ebay bought Kijiji here (Germany), which made it unusable.
On Ebay, most peopel don'z even look at the shipping costs (and complain afterwards) so they might just buy a macbook and do not look at the specs.

Really, some of these CL ads may seem silly to us, but people do buy. They see Mac and go 'Wow! That's cheap!'.

That's it.

Why get a Quicksilver when the Digital Audio is pretty close to the same (if not exactly the same) internals as the QS? It will probably be cheaper also.

I don't know about anyone else, but my heavily biased idea on G4 tower buying is as follows:

1. Mirrored Drive Door models, especially the 2003 model which is the fastest OS 9-only rig you'll find.

2. The G4 Gigabit Ethernet model, because it can hold 2 GB of RAM under OS X. RAM tends to be the great equalizer on OS X.

3. The Digital Audio model, since it shares pretty much the same internals with the Quicksilver.

I was thinking that, too, a long time. But for "everyday" tasks, Mac OS X never exceeds 512MB on G4. I was converting from iMovie to h.264 and I thought it would profit from much RAM, but only around 512MB were used. With Photoshop and Logic it is different of course, if not even more depending on project size and work strategy.

Originally Posted by rampancy View Post
IMHO, from what I recall from posts on the Apple discussion forums, the power supplies on Macs right from the Digital Audio era had a quirk that was related to Apple's implementation of ADC: since ADC provided power over its connection, ...

The Gigabit Ethernet PSU supplies ADC power, too. So that should have a high number of failures, too. Difference is the Watts. So maybe it is not alone the ADC, but the overal design, plus heat (as someone already guessed with the fans not being active, when the monitor still draws power). But I do not know.

Someone at the apple discussions forum, called Japamac, said he tested the Power Supply of a Sawtooth-AGP and a Gigabit Ethernet with a ATI 9800. (As everyone here seems to recommend and warn, that you at least need 300W to even operate). He mentioned that the design of the too supplies was different and the AGP PSU much more volatile and that the Gigabit Ethernet PSU (both have the same Watts) can well handle the power of a ATI 9800, (his) Dual 1,6GHz CPU Upgrade, 2PCI cards and 2 drives. But it would depend on room temperature, too.

 

[cgk.emu]

I already said why I'm using a Powermac. It still does everything I need it to do--simple as that.

I've been buying Apple products since '82, Macs since '87. Most were purchased new. Some models lasted longer than others, but as long as each one served the purpose for which I originally purchased it, I kept using it.

The same goes for my current G4's. When they stop being useful to me, I'll replace them. Until that happens, I won't.

As far as not being able to handle "general purpose computing", well that's just silly. A PowerPC is more than capable of handling this type of computing.

My wife and I both use Dual MDD's as our main computers. The Sawtooth in my signature is now only used as a test machine for Linux, but it serves this purpose well. My iBook G4 sits next to my recliner, and is used for web browsing and email while I watch TV.

But, here's my opinion. If you feel the need to replace your computer more often than I replace mine, that's great. It's your money. Spend it as you wish. And, your supporting the economy.

I'm broke as shi**. No new computers for me for a very long time. I'm running a 2009 Mac Pro currently...and for the foreseeable future. Sorry my post was maybe a little on the rude side, especially to PPC users. Honestly I do miss my G5 1.6...great machine, but it certainly wouldn't fulfill my current needs.

 

[MaxHeap]

People have been able to get around the power supply situation by hacking ATX power supplies into their Macs, but those seem to be incredibly difficult, not to mention that they seem to require some significant case hacking.

Converting it to an ATX PSU is very easy (just moving some wires around on an ATX extension). Fixing the MDD PSU is a little more difficult, but nothing is required other than basic soldering skills as it's always the same components that fail. Instructions or questions for repairing them can be found here http://www.badcaps.net.

 

[archtopshop]

I'm broke as shi**. No new computers for me for a very long time. I'm running a 2009 Mac Pro currently...and for the foreseeable future. Sorry my post was maybe a little on the rude side, especially to PPC users. Honestly I do miss my G5 1.6...great machine, but it certainly wouldn't fulfill my current needs.

Hey, don't worry about it. We can be a bit protective of our PowerPCs around here--like a mama-grizzly when someone messes with her cubs.

 

[ihuman:D]

Hey, don't worry about it. We can be a bit protective of our PowerPCs around here--like a mama-grizzly when someone messes with her cubs.

Or Homer when someone messes with his food and/or beer.

 

[rampancy]

The Gigabit Ethernet PSU supplies ADC power, too. So that should have a high number of failures, too. Difference is the Watts. So maybe it is not alone the ADC, but the overal design, plus heat (as someone already guessed with the fans not being active, when the monitor still draws power). But I do not know.

The impression I've gotten is that the PSU issue is endemic to all Macs that have ADC (I admit I goofed there in that I forgot when ADC was brought to the Power Mac).

If there is no ADC GPU then the power wouldn't be going anywhere, would it? (I'm seriously asking a question, not being narky)

I guess what I was trying to say was that due to the way the power supply was designed, even if you don't have an ADC monitor plugged in, power would still be flowing through the power supply. Admittedly I'm really fuzzy on this, as I can't find the post on the Apple Discussion forums where I read it. In retrospect I wished I'd bookmarked it.

 

[ihuman:D]

The impression I've gotten is that the PSU issue is endemic to all Macs that have ADC (I admit I goofed there in that I forgot when ADC was brought to the Power Mac).



I guess what I was trying to say was that due to the way the power supply was designed, even if you don't have an ADC monitor plugged in, power would still be flowing through the power supply. Admittedly I'm really fuzzy on this, as I can't find the post on the Apple Discussion forums where I read it. In retrospect I wished I'd bookmarked it.

Right, I understand you now.

 

[Mr Rabbit]

I've been wanting a Power Mac G4 for a couple of years now. I almost bought one on CL about 4 or 5 months ago then totaled my car, so that took priority.

Now I'm looking for one and there's not a one on CL! I prefer a MDD, next a QS, but nothing! There's a few iMac G4s for around $70, so I may try that, but I was really wanting a MDD.

Is this what's going on in the rest of the country? This is in South and Central Texas.

Check with the IT folks at your local grade schools & colleges. Most have probably already upgraded to Intel Macs but theres a really good chance you'll find some PowerMacs (G4s & G5s), eMacs and iBooks that are waiting to be recycled. I can't tell you how many rooms of retired PowerPC equipment I've seen over the past few years when doing repairs at schools. Often times the IT folk are just waiting to build up enough of a pile to warrant renting a dumpster.

Also check with local Apple Service Providers (not Apple themselves) as a lot of them will allow customers to drop off old Macs to be recycled. The honorable ones will allow you to grab one and go, albeit without a hard drive, but some may charge you $20 for a machine. These are often less likely to be working but when I worked at an AASP I was always amazed at the number of PowerMac G4s, iMac G4s, PowerBooks, iBooks and PowerMac G5s that were dropped off in perfect working condition. Sometimes the shop would refurbish them a bit and sell them but more often than not they would either toss them in the recycle area or set them aside for parts.

I work for a large non-profit and just a month or so ago we filled a 5'x5'x4' container with loads of old electronics, including at least 8 PowerMac G4s (mirror door, sawtooth & digital audio) and a few Apple Studio CRT displays, that was sent to recycling. My inner Apple hoarder was sobbing but the thought of my wife giving me hell was enough to not drag anything else home. I DID grab a perfect Pro Mouse and a few PowerMac G3/G4 cords, the cool translucent Apple branded ones. Anyway, might be worth it to check with a few bigger local companies that use Macs as they will often have little piles of older equipment too.

 

[cgk.emu]

Check with the IT folks at your local grade schools & colleges. Most have probably already upgraded to Intel Macs but theres a really good chance you'll find some PowerMacs (G4s & G5s), eMacs and iBooks that are waiting to be recycled. I can't tell you how many rooms of retired PowerPC equipment I've seen over the past few years when doing repairs at schools. Often times the IT folk are just waiting to build up enough of a pile to warrant renting a dumpster.

Also check with local Apple Service Providers (not Apple themselves) as a lot of them will allow customers to drop off old Macs to be recycled. The honorable ones will allow you to grab one and go, albeit without a hard drive, but some may charge you $20 for a machine. These are often less likely to be working but when I worked at an AASP I was always amazed at the number of PowerMac G4s, iMac G4s, PowerBooks, iBooks and PowerMac G5s that were dropped off in perfect working condition. Sometimes the shop would refurbish them a bit and sell them but more often than not they would either toss them in the recycle area or set them aside for parts.

I work for a large non-profit and just a month or so ago we filled a 5'x5'x4' container with loads of old electronics, including at least 8 PowerMac G4s (mirror door, sawtooth & digital audio) and a few Apple Studio CRT displays, that was sent to recycling. My inner Apple hoarder was sobbing but the thought of my wife giving me hell was enough to not drag anything else home. I DID grab a perfect Pro Mouse and a few PowerMac G3/G4 cords, the cool translucent Apple branded ones. Anyway, might be worth it to check with a few bigger local companies that use Macs as they will often have little piles of older equipment too.

Where I'm at the local large University has a disposition area where you can stop by a few times a week and buy old Macs (and other things), but the prices are outrageous...it's hard to find good prices on old Macs for some reason, at least 'round these parts.