Which 4K home theatre system are you using?

[JasonHB]

Why? HDMI to the TV, eARC via HDMI to the AVR and it's all there.

Ok, run 3, 4, 5 or 6 hdmi cables up to your TV on a wall, and have one back to the AVR, I’d rather just run one to the TV.

Anything to do with ARC is flaky at best, and you’re royally screwed if you’ve got a projector doing it your way

 

[HDFan]

However, the recommendation is still to connect every device to the AVR and route video to the TV rather than the other way around. Or even easier, split the signal and connect the video output to the TV and the audio output to the AVR.

Using the receiver as the video HDMI switch makes the most sense. One long cable to the TV, short cables from the various 4K sources to the receiver. Don't see the advantage of splitting things. Then you have 2 cables for each source, one long one going to the TV, and a short one for audio going to the receiver.

My receiver doesn't support 4K. My Apple TV is connected to a 4K Oppo. The Oppo has one HDMI video out which goes to the TV, the other HDMI out is audio only which goes to my receiver.

Why? HDMI to the TV, eARC via HDMI to the AVR and it's all there.

Lots of long cables if you have a lot of sources. Limits you to the number of HDMI inputs on the TV (usually around 4) rather than the 8 or so on many receivers.

 

[adrianlondon]

ok, thanks, that makes sense.

So ... the solution is thinner HDMI cables and an HDMI router/hub 🙂

 

[steve217]

Using the receiver as the video HDMI switch makes the most sense. One long cable to the TV, short cables from the various 4K sources to the receiver. Don't see the advantage of splitting things. Then you have 2 cables for each source, one long one going to the TV, and a short one for audio going to the receiver.

My receiver doesn't support 4K. My Apple TV is connected to a 4K Oppo. The Oppo has one HDMI video out which goes to the TV, the other HDMI out is audio only which goes to my receiver.



Lots of long cables if you have a lot of sources. Limits you to the number of HDMI inputs on the TV (usually around 4) rather than the 8 or so on many receivers.

Every set up is different.

In my case, I have an older receiver (2011 era Sony with simple ARC), and a newer TV (2018 Samsung 8 series), it made more sense to pipe all video through the TV and send audio-only to the receiver via HDMI ARC.

I don't have my TV wall mounted so I don't have multiple cables threaded up the wall and most importantly, I can watch the Apple TV with the audio connected to my AirPods and reduce the number of light sources by leaving the receiver turned off.

I also don't have to use the receiver's remote - I hate hate hate Sony remotes, microscopic mute button (because who uses mute? /s) and "zone" button that disables the remote until I reset the wretched thing. The ergonomics on this thing make the AppleTV remote seem positively brilliant. I know there are alternatives, but I'm too cheap to bother.

 

[2010mini]

Why? HDMI to the TV, eARC via HDMI to the AVR and it's all there.

the AVR is used if you have multiple sources of video.... cable/sat, streaming device, blu-ray. the AVR streamlines all of that and processes all the audio while passing the video to the tv via one output.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

I understand eARC. However, the recommendation is still to connect every device to the AVR and route video to the TV rather than the other way around. Or even easier, split the signal and connect the video output to the TV and the audio output to the AVR. Which I guess I'll then rename an AR 🙂

Currently, we need TVs to have eARC so they can pass through object oriented sound formats such as Dolby Atmos to an audio decoder, and an AVR capable of decoding 8K HDR signals so they can pass them through to the TV/projector. Sure, it's no doubt what I'll end up buying at some point in the future. It just seems overly complicated and doomed to be out-dated as soon as someone comes up with another deep colour format that requires one to buy a new TV to display it and a new AVR to pass it through. Ah well.

I understand your point. I also understand why the AVR has become the hub of the home theater for people who take it more seriously.

I think there is a reason sound bars are so popular now though. You can get a lot of the benefits without compromising your living room aesthetic, they're easy to set up, and they're gonna last a lot longer than an AVR that is outdated every couple years. Meanwhile a sound bar will be fine for as long as eARC is the standard. And eARC seems like it will have some staying power.

A lot of people just don't want to deal with the complexity an AVR adds to your home theater and are OK with giving up some audio quality for the simplicity. I'm using an entry level klipsch speaker system right now with an Onkyo AVR, but I'm strongly considering just getting an Atmos sound bar in the next few years with a wireless sub/rears and Airplay 2 support.

 

[adrianlondon]

the AVR is used if you have multiple sources of video.... cable/sat, streaming device, blu-ray. the AVR streamlines all of that and processes all the audio while passing the video to the tv via one output.

Currently, one has an AVR which has to decode and re-encode loads of video formats/resolutions/refresh rates/colour depth encodings etc which can require up to 48Gbps of bandwidth (HDMI 2.1, although most manufacturers seem to be standardising on 40Gpbs).

Instead we could just let the TV handle it (it has to handle it anyway) and send bitstream audio to an audio decoder.

It seems to be mainly about cable management.

So, 8K at a higher refresh rate comes along and all of a sudden you need a new TV and a new AVR. I could be wrong, but so far it seems TV tech is changing faster than audio tech. We now have Atmos and DTX; is there anything else coming that an already-existing eARC can't bitstream?

Anyway, I'm just thinking aloud. I have an AVR with everything connected to it 🙂

 

[2010mini]

Currently, one has an AVR which has to decode and re-encode loads of video formats/resolutions/refresh rates/colour depth encodings etc which can require up to 48Gbps of bandwidth (HDMI 2.1, although most manufacturers seem to be standardising on 40Gpbs).

Instead we could just let the TV handle it (it has to handle it anyway) and send bitstream audio to an audio decoder.

It seems to be mainly about cable management.

So, 8K at a higher refresh rate comes along and all of a sudden you need a new TV and a new AVR. I could be wrong, but so far it seems TV tech is changing faster than audio tech. We now have Atmos and DTX; is there anything else coming that an already-existing eARC can't bitstream?

Anyway, I'm just thinking aloud. I have an AVR with everything connected to it 🙂

From what I have seen, AVRs passthrough 4K, HDR, DV and processes the sound and keeps it in sync.

 

[HDFan]

and they're gonna last a lot longer than an AVR that is outdated every couple years. Meanwhile a sound bar will be fine for as long as eARC is the standard.

Speakers can last a long time, but the decoders don't. In this scenario you rely on the TV to provide the various decoders (DTS, Atmos, HEVC, mp4, etc.) to send to the sound bar. When new formats come out you have to purchase a component that does the decoding - in this case a new TV. So it's either replace the TV or the AVR. Some AVRs do allow for upgrades though. One TV manufacturer provided an outboard box. Don't know how well that worked.

From what I have seen, AVRs passthrough 4K, HDR, DV and processes the sound and keeps it in sync.

If it supports 4K. Unfortunately mine doesn't.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

Speakers can last a long time, but the decoders don't. In this scenario you rely on the TV to provide the various decoders (DTS, Atmos, HEVC, mp4, etc.) to send to the sound bar. When new formats come out you have to purchase a component that does the decoding - in this case a new TV. So it's either replace the TV or the AVR. Some AVRs do allow for upgrades though. One TV manufacturer provided an outboard box. Don't know how well that worked.

Picture is always improving alongside audio, so it's not either replace the TV or the AVR. It's replacing the TV AND the AVR. Same with a TV/Sound bar combo as well I suppose, so you're right you really just pick your poison.

For me, the convenience seems to be pulling me in though, and I frankly couldn't even tell a difference between the various 5.1 codecs that have come and gone over the last 10 years. Something like the new $1000 Vizio Atmos sound bar seems to be right in my wheelhouse, but I wish it had Airplay 2.

 

[2010mini]

Picture is always improving alongside audio, so it's not either replace the TV or the AVR. It's replacing the TV AND the AVR. Same with a TV/Sound bar combo as well I suppose, so you're right you really just pick your poison.

For me, the convenience seems to be pulling me in though, and I frankly couldn't even tell a difference between the various 5.1 codecs that have come and gone over the last 10 years. Something like the new $1000 Vizio Atmos sound bar seems to be right in my wheelhouse, but I wish it had Airplay 2.

correct.
From my research, the lifespan of AV receivers are 1 year. Just like TVs, every year new features are added and the previous model is updated with a new name. It’s sort of like iPhones, even though the 11 is great everyone knows the 12 will be better.
As you stated we need to pick something we know will last until it is time to upgrade. IMHO the time you upgrade the AVR should be when you need to upgrade your TV.

I just replaced my main TV after 12 years and now need to upgrade the AVR and ATV to match. The old equipment is going in a guest room or handed down to my son for his APT. So no ewaste there.

 

[HDFan]

the lifespan of AV receivers are 1 year

New features are introduced every year, but content that uses them often doesn't exist. How many IMAX movies can you get for your IMAX supported receiver? Basic functionality (decoding/amplification) doesn't change that much. My 10 year old receiver works just fine with the DTS-MA and Dolby HD content that is pretty much ubiquitous right now. Doesn't do 4K or Atmos, so it's time to upgrade. Going to HDMI 2.1 I would expect that I could get another 10 years from its replacement.

 

[2010mini]

New features are introduced every year, but content that uses them often doesn't exist. How many IMAX movies can you get for your IMAX supported receiver? Basic functionality (decoding/amplification) doesn't change that much. My 10 year old receiver works just fine with the DTS-MA and Dolby HD content that is pretty much ubiquitous right now. Doesn't do 4K or Atmos, so it's time to upgrade. Going to HDMI 2.1 I would expect that I could get another 10 years from its replacement.

understand when I say the lifecycle is 1 year. It has nothing to do with content and more to do with specs.
Manufacturers created the 4K TV craze even when 4K content was basically nonexistent. But they got a lot of people to buy those sets.
So the AVR’s lifespan is short because manufacturers have to always be fresh. They have to include the latest specs. Why? Consumers love specs even if they can’t use them.

 

[Menel]

understand when I say the lifecycle is 1 year. It has nothing to do with content and more to do with specs.
Manufacturers created the 4K TV craze even when 4K content was basically nonexistent. But they got a lot of people to buy those sets.
So the AVR’s lifespan is short because manufacturers have to always be fresh. They have to include the latest specs. Why? Consumers love specs even if they can’t use them.

It's really not a big deal, just like your 1080P Plasma is how many years old and has been working ok for you?

My Denon x3300 is several years old now, still passes 4K HDR just fine. No need to upgrade even though the x3700 is out, 4 generations later... still doing 4K HDR. You don't have to get bogged down on every little spec change.
[automerge]1594049554[/automerge]

Picture is always improving alongside audio, so it's not either replace the TV or the AVR. It's replacing the TV AND the AVR. Same with a TV/Sound bar combo as well I suppose, so you're right you really just pick your poison.

For me, the convenience seems to be pulling me in though, and I frankly couldn't even tell a difference between the various 5.1 codecs that have come and gone over the last 10 years. Something like the new $1000 Vizio Atmos sound bar seems to be right in my wheelhouse, but I wish it had Airplay 2.

That's a lot of dough for a soundbar. If you pick around very carefully can build out a discrete solution for that amount.

You can do an AppleTV (you'll get your AirPlay2), to a Yamaha hdmi in-out soundbar for $100-200, CEC over the hdmi turns it and tv on and off and controls volume. I've got one on my garage TV, and had several people get them for small apartments and other small spaces. Big upgrade from built-in sound, convenient and tiny.

But 5-10x that price? for something still spatially just stuck to the wall in front? no way.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

It's really not a big deal, just like your 1080P Plasma is how many years old and has been working ok for you?

My Denon x3300 is several years old now, still passes 4K HDR just fine. No need to upgrade even though the x3700 is out, 4 generations later... still doing 4K HDR. You don't have to get bogged down on every little spec change.
[automerge]1594049554[/automerge]
That's a lot of dough for a soundbar. If you pick around very carefully can build out a discrete solution for that amount.

You can do an AppleTV (you'll get your AirPlay2), to a Yamaha hdmi in-out soundbar for $100-200, CEC over the hdmi turns it and tv on and off and controls volume. I've got one on my garage TV, and had several people get them for small apartments and other small spaces. Big upgrade from built-in sound, convenient and tiny.

But 5-10x that price? for something still spatially just stuck to the wall in front? no way.

It’s got rear satellites and a sub. Really not significantly different than a dedicated left, center, and right with Atmos blasters up towards the ceiling.

If I could run wires for 9 dedicated channels in my ceiling and walls then I might consider it, but my guess is I'd blow my $1000 budget on routing wires alone. If I ever build a house it's something I'd like to do, but in the meantime I appreciate the simple aesthetic of a soundbar with wireless rears.

 

[bigcat318]

Speakers can last a long time, but the decoders don't. In this scenario you rely on the TV to provide the various decoders (DTS, Atmos, HEVC, mp4, etc.) to send to the sound bar. When new formats come out you have to purchase a component that does the decoding - in this case a new TV. So it's either replace the TV or the AVR. Some AVRs do allow for upgrades though. One TV manufacturer provided an outboard box. Don't know how well that worked.



If it supports 4K. Unfortunately mine doesn't.

Samsung had the "One Connect Box" and that thing is a joke. It failed several times in the first year of ownership, and customer services is less than helpful about getting it replaced. If it fails all of your TV connections fail.

 

[displaced]

Got a Denon AVR-X3600 in a 5.1.2 setup with Mordaunt-Short Avant speakers for L, C, R, SL, SR and subwoofer, and ELAC Debut A4 Atmos speakers.

TV is an LG OLED55B7V. Full 4K + Atmos + Dolby Vision/HDR10/HLG support.

The Denon was only my second amp in about 18 years. The Mordaunt-Short speakers are also 15 years old. Upgrading to the Denon was a huge leap - my old Yamaha RX-V350 didn't even support HDMI - instead I had a bunch of HDMI audio extractors and stuff to convert to coax/TOSLINK.

Thoroughly impressed by the Denon. The Audyssey speaker calibration worked very well, with only a few tweaks to taste. The built-in AirPlay 2 receiver function is great - just select it from an iPhone, iPad or Mac and it'll turn itself on automatically and start playing.

When I recently redecorated the office in prep for home-working for the foreseeable, we bought another Denon (lower spec, but newer range) and picked up a 7.1 set of Mordaunt-Short Genie speakers off eBay. That sounds great too.

 

[2010mini]

Bumping my thread once more.

I am looking for an entry level 4k receiver to retire my aging Onkyo 7.1 HT-R580. I know I probably won't find any 4k receivers in the sub $350 range with a 130w per channel like the R580. But the room the TV is in is pretty small.

any suggestions?

 

[HDFan]

I know I probably won't find any 4k receivers in the sub $350 range with a 130w per channel

Power ratings are tricky. The 130 watt per channel figure for the HT-580 is for 6 ohms and the manual I found doesn't give an 8 ohm value. You have to pay a lot more to get 130 watts at 8 ohms. The Denon 4700H is rated 125 watts at 8 ohms - $1699! I'd check the impedance on your speakers.

Decoding Amp Power Specs

You're a newbie to this audio game, and are just putting together your first home theater. Or perhaps you're making your first major upgrade. You're pouring over the spec sheets, looking for the best AV receiver for the cheapest price. Chances are, you're looking at the power output specs...

www.soundandvision.com

Doubling amplifier power only produces a 3 db gain in loudness. To get a 10 db increase you have to increase power 10 times.

How Much Power Do You Really Need?

What’s the Number One question demanded of self-styled audio experts like me? “How much power do I need?” But expert or not, I can’t answer it: not without knowing the details of your speakers, your room’s size, layout, and furnishings, your listening habits, musical tastes, boxers-or-briefs...

www.soundandvision.com

The new 2020 receivers continue to be released. Marantz has just announced their new models. Denon has just started upgrading their value series receivers. The least expensive that they have updated so far is the S960H, $649 and 90 watts at 8 ohms.

If you can wait a few months most of the new 2020 receivers should be out. Maybe Denon will update their S540BT, a 2018 70 watt $279 model.

 

[2010mini]

Power ratings are tricky. The 130 watt per channel figure for the HT-580 is for 6 ohms and the manual I found doesn't give an 8 ohm value. You have to pay a lot more to get 130 watts at 8 ohms. The Denon 4700H is rated 125 watts at 8 ohms - $1699! I'd check the impedance on your speakers.

Decoding Amp Power Specs

You're a newbie to this audio game, and are just putting together your first home theater. Or perhaps you're making your first major upgrade. You're pouring over the spec sheets, looking for the best AV receiver for the cheapest price. Chances are, you're looking at the power output specs...

www.soundandvision.com

Doubling amplifier power only produces a 3 db gain in loudness. To get a 10 db increase you have to increase power 10 times.

How Much Power Do You Really Need?

What’s the Number One question demanded of self-styled audio experts like me? “How much power do I need?” But expert or not, I can’t answer it: not without knowing the details of your speakers, your room’s size, layout, and furnishings, your listening habits, musical tastes, boxers-or-briefs...

www.soundandvision.com

The new 2020 receivers continue to be released. Marantz has just announced their new models. Denon has just started upgrading their value series receivers. The least expensive that they have updated so far is the S960H, $649 and 90 watts at 8 ohms.

If you can wait a few months most of the new 2020 receivers should be out. Maybe Denon will update their S540BT, a 2018 70 watt $279 model.

thanks.

 

[duffman9000]

Bumping my thread once more.

I am looking for an entry level 4k receiver to retire my aging Onkyo 7.1 HT-R580. I know I probably won't find any 4k receivers in the sub $350 range with a 130w per channel like the R580. But the room the TV is in is pretty small.

any suggestions?

Hi,

What will be your primary use case? I bought a Denon 4K AVR about 3 years ago (don't have the model number in front of me), but I got it at a substantial discount from MSRP. It was exactly what I needed at the time. I knew Atmos-ready AVRs were still really expensive and I knew there were other features that were still unavailable.

 

[2010mini]

Hi,

What will be your primary use case? I bought a Denon 4K AVR about 3 years ago (don't have the model number in front of me), but I got it at a substantial discount from MSRP. It was exactly what I needed at the time. I knew Atmos-ready AVRs were still really expensive and I knew there were other features that were still unavailable.

primary use is watching 4K/HDR/Dolby Vision content. As well as OTA tv via Channels App.
My current Receiver is on its last legs. But I really don’t need Dolby Atmos... just need a 5.1 system.

 

[bluespark]

Anthem MRX-720. Glad to see some other Anthem owners on this thread. (And since you're here, a question: are you able to see the receiver's on-screen controls with Dolby Vision enabled? On mine, as soon as I enable DV, the on-screen controls disappear. Not so with regular HDR.)

 

[GrumpyCoder]

(And since you're here, a question: are you able to see the receiver's on-screen controls with Dolby Vision enabled? On mine, as soon as I enable DV, the on-screen controls disappear. Not so with regular HDR.)

Don't own Anthem (Trinnov and Meridian guy), but Anthem, like some other manufacturers, don't show the OSD when passing through DV. With DV passed through it can lead to distorted OSD screen, so manufacturers simply disabled it for DV as a "quick and dirty" fix.

 

[bluespark]

Don't own Anthem (Trinnov and Meridian guy), but Anthem, like some other manufacturers, don't show the OSD when passing through DV. With DV passed through it can lead to distorted OSD screen, so manufacturers simply disabled it for DV as a "quick and dirty" fix.

That must be it, thanks. Since my equipment is in a closet, I usually disable DV so I can see the OSD, but it would be great to have it all.