Which of these is grammatically correct?

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by c073186, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. c073186 macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    a Do you want to go with Matt and I to the restaurant?

    b Do you want to go with Matt and me to the restaurant?

    Option (a) sounds better to me in speech, but I think (b) is right because isn't the test if you take out the other person (Matt) and say the sentence, it still has to make sense? So it would not be right to say "Do you want to go with I to the restaurant", it would be "Do you want to go with me to the restaurant". Anyways I figured someone here would have the definitive answer to clear it up.
     
  2. psychofreak Retired

    psychofreak

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    #2
    b is correct.

    On a similar note, which of these is correct:

    a) The United States are going to war
    b) The United States is going to war
     
  3. Kamera RAWr macrumors 65816

    Kamera RAWr

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    #3
    To the OP, I'd say A is correct.

    To psychofreak, I'd say B is correct
     
  4. c073186 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    Well, if you are speaking of the United States as a single entity, then I think (b) would be the answer. But if you are speaking of all the individual states in the plural form, then I think (a). Right or wrong?
     
  5. Kamera RAWr macrumors 65816

    Kamera RAWr

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    #5
    I would agree, although I don't know too many instances where the latter would be used :eek:
     
  6. DakotaGuy macrumors 68040

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    #6
    B is correct.

    As far as the United States going to war question either could be correct depending on how you are referring to the United States.
     
  7. Kamera RAWr macrumors 65816

    Kamera RAWr

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    #7
    Upon reflection (and a Google search), I believe the OP is correct in saying that B is proper. :eek:
     
  8. psychofreak Retired

    psychofreak

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    #8
    Erm...say it was back in March 03, with the news reader saying "The United States ___ going to war with Iraq".





    On another grammatical point (I just can't help it):
    a) The yolk of the egg is white
    b) The yolk of the egg are white
     
  9. 119576 Guest

    119576

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    #9
    Well if there are two or more yolk; then b.

    If there is one yolk; a.
     
  10. c073186 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    And I think the yolk of the egg is white. Edit: After actually reading the sentence, that doesn't even make sense... the yolk is yellow ;).
     
  11. psychofreak Retired

    psychofreak

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    #11
    At least I caught one person out.

    In speech, 99% of people don't realise this and have a stare like I'm stupid while saying "The yolk of the egg is white".
     
  12. AJ's Apple macrumors newbie

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    #12
    B is correct. In this case is, as you mentioned, speaking it as if you did not include Matt would utilize the word me. "Do you want to go with me to the restaurant?" Then, you insert the other person, Matt in this case, before yourself.

    If you wrote "I am going to the restaurant. Would you like to go?", then you would insert Matt before yourself and I would remain as is.

    It's too bad this isn't taught in school like it used to be. Let's see how many know this one. Which is grammatically correct?

    A) Matt, who you may remember, went to the restaurant with you. Who did he meet at the bar?​

    B) Matt, whom you may remember, went to the restaurant with you. Whom did he meet at the bar?​

    C) Matt, who you may remember, went to the restaurant with you. Whom did he meet at the bar?​

    D) Matt, whom you may remember, went to the restaurant with you. Who did he meet at the bar?​
     
  13. Gelfin macrumors 68020

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    #13
    OP: B is proper. To remember which to use in a given instance, mentally drop the other person before you speak. You would not say "Do you want to go with I to the restaurant?"

    Is/Are: I believe technically either can be correct, but mostly because there seems to be a transatlantic disagreement here. Brits will much more frequently use the plural when referring to a collective entity. The classic example is that an American sports announcer will say "the crowd is going wild" while a British one will say "the crowd are going wild."

    If I were to become all prescriptivist about this, I would have to come down on the side of the Americans on this issue. The plurality of the crowd is a semantic issue rather than a syntactic one, and conjugation is syntactic. The word "crowd" is singular.

    This makes the specific case at hand interesting, because "The United States" is syntactically plural, but refers to a single entity. Using "are" because "States" is plural is somewhat misleading because taken individually a state may not declare or prosecute a war. Only the single, collective entity may. One could make a case for an exception on the basis that "The United States" is a proper name, but cases like this are why I'm actually not inclined to be strictly prescriptivist about this. The choice of usage seems to be broadly idiosyncratic in a relative handful of cases, and as long as people make themselves understood no harm is done.

    If it helps at all, psychofreak, right or wrong, an American would always use "is" there.

    B is correct. The word in question is first the object of a dependent clause, and then the object of a sentence. In both cases it should be "whom."
     
  14. Kamera RAWr macrumors 65816

    Kamera RAWr

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    #14
    I'm going to hazard a guess with... D?
     
  15. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

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    #15
    AJ's Apple: (D) is correct. The first sentence is whom. I don't recall why it's whom instead of who (is it because it's the direct object?). In the 2nd sentence, you are asking about a person, the person being the subject, so it's who.

    Gelfin: Actually, the US never declared war, so technically they're both wrong :p
     
  16. Gelfin macrumors 68020

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    #16
    The subject of the second sentence is "he."

    Certainly they did, last in 1941.
     
  17. MrSmith macrumors 68040

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    #17
    In the top post 'b' is correct because it's the first person object case. 'You' is the subject and 'me' an object.

    Literally there are no rules in the English language. There is only common usage, which changes over time (remember that thing about not putting prepositions at the end of a sentence? Nowadays the only people who apply that rule are those with sphincter torsion).

    'Whom' is the object case and is, or soon will be, archaic. You therefore cannot say categorically that A is incorrect, as though it disobeys a set-in-stone rule. It is in common usage and therefore perfectly acceptable.
     
  18. c073186 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    What is the distinction between the words "fewer" and "less?" Is it that you say "fewer" when you can actually count the number of whatever you are talking about and "less" when you cannot? Do you know what I mean by that question?
     
  19. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #19
    On the OP:

    Normally you would say:
    Do you want to go with me to the restaurant?

    The you just sub in your friend:
    Do you want to go with Matt and me to the restaurant?


    -----
    I like goats.
    Matt and I like goats.
    Do you want to feed the goats with me?
    Do you want to feed the goats with Matt and me?
     
  20. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #20
    Correct. "Me" is the object.

    Correct. "The United States" is one country.

    Technically correct, but somewhat anal and stilted.
     
  21. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #21
    I thought the restaurant was the object, and 'me' was in the dative?

    Do you want to go to the restaurant?
    Do you want to go [with me] to the restaurant?
    Do you want to go [with Matt and me] to the restaurant?
     
  22. MrSmith macrumors 68040

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    #22
    'Fewer' is for countable nouns (one pen, two pens) and 'less' for uncountable nouns (coffee, rice).
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    There is no dative in English. Both "me" and "restaurant" are governed by prepositions.

    Sainsburys stock fewer coffees than Marks and Sparks. ;)
     
  24. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #24
    Methinks I need to stop thinking in Old English.
     
  25. MrSmith macrumors 68040

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    #25
    In your example coffees are countable: Blue Mountain, Yauco, Kenya,...
     

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