Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

m1maverick

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Nov 22, 2020
1,406
1,301
I have an occasional need to write MacOS floppies with software I download from the Internet. Currently none of my Macs has a floppy drive (the oldest Mac I have is a PowerBook G4). In order to resolve this issue I decided buying an older PowerBook would be a good, space saving solution.

My requirements are:
  • Needs to be able to write MacOS (HFS) floppy disks. Both 800KB and 1.44KB
  • Needs to be able to connect to my local network so that I can FTP from a modern Linux system. I want this to be as easy to setup as I won't be using this system often and therefore don't want to have to figure it out each time I use it. Thus built in ethernet or the ability to use a PCMCIA card (I currently have a 3COM Megahertz 10/100 LAN PC Card, Model 3CCFE574BT). I'm willing to purchase the appropriate AAUI cable as I know these models typically do not have an ethernet jack built it.
  • Must run MacOS, I am not really interested in OS X. I'm more interested in MacOS 7.x more so than 8.x / 9.x.
I am considering everything from the earliest models (100, 140, 170) through later models. I don't want to spend a lot on it given its infrequent use. But I am fine with spending a little more to get a later model. Not sure if an internal CD-ROM would be beneficial.

Does anyone have experience with these older models and can recommend one or ones to avoid (I hear the 5300 is one to avoid)? I would also consider how easy a particular model is to service in the event I would need to do so. One that is easier to service would be preferred over one that requires a complete teardown. Color would be preferred as well as an active matrix screen but I wouldn't pass on black and white / passive matrix if the system were priced right.

Anything else to consider?

EDIT: It appears that only the 5xx series included ethernet standard. Later models appear to have removed it. That's odd.
 
Last edited:
I have a USB floppy drive which should work on any Mac or PC without drivers.

Cheers :)

Hugh
Is this a special floppy drive? I didn't think that PC drives could read / write HFS formatted disks. If that's the case I have a USB floppy drive. What software would I use to write it?
 
Sorry, I just included PC as an example. I haven't tested my floppy drive in anything other than OS X, so can't be sure it will work in OS 7 - 9.
I just thought it might be worth a punt, as you seem to be able to buy the drives for about £10 / $10.

Cheers :)

Hugh
 
I have a USB floppy drive which should work on any Mac or PC without drivers.

Cheers :)

Hugh

I haven't tested my floppy drive in anything other than OS X, so can't be sure it will work in OS 7 - 9.

Don't forget that from El Capitan onwards, USB floppy support has been removed from macOS.

It seems that USB floppy drives are mostly recognised in OS 9 but there are caveats about what they can read...

Mac OS 9 Lives! Forum: USB floppy drive

Working with Macintosh Floppy Disks in the New Millennium

Floppy Disk Compatibility and Incompatibility in the Mac World | Low End Mac
 
  • Like
Reactions: MarkC426
I didn't know that :oops:

It was something that I stumbled across when I still used to browse the LEM FB group. I was bemused because the code was hardly something that would've taken up much space in the OS - unlike other stuff they've bloated it with...

Not disbelieving you, but if I can find a floppy I'll give it a try ;)

Cool. :)

I'm surprised that someone hasn't written a patch to restore the driver. Maybe its happened and I'm not aware of it.
 
No go I'm afraid - from Apple community discussion -

"Oct 27, 2015 9:25 PM in response to ...

USB Floppy Drives used to work under 10.3 up to 10.6 Snow Leopard, but 10.7 didn't include a 64bit version of the floppy drive driver that was present in 10.6. So the drive will appear in Disk Utility but it will not be able to mount he floppy in it because it doesn't have a driver that tells it how to do it.

I have searched the Internet thoroughly but I could not find a driver that would work with recent versions of OS X. I have tried to copy the driver from 10.6 to 10.9 and obviously it didn't work (I knew it beforehand, but just for the sake of completeness. The obvious part is that from 10.7 and up, all Kernel Extensions have to be 64bit and the driver from 10.6 is 32bit).

If anyone can find the source code of one of those 10.6 drivers in a Darwin distribution and has the knowledge to do it, it could be patched and recompiled to work in 64bit mode… but I don't hold my breath and neither should anyone else."


Cheers :)

Hugh
 
  • Like
Reactions: Amethyst1
Thanks all. I ended up buying a 5300ce. I wanted to avoid the 5300 series but, at $100, it was a great price. Other PowerBooks of similar cost were sold as untested and lacked a power supply. Those that were sold as working cost significantly more. Given the intended use I felt that this was a reasonable buy. Only disappointment was the lack of ethernet but, as noted in my OP edit, it seems ethernet was nor available on any of these early PowerBooks outside of the 5xx series.
 
Thanks all. I ended up buying a 5300ce. I wanted to avoid the 5300 series but, at $100, it was a great price. Other PowerBooks of similar cost were sold as untested and lacked a power supply. Those that were sold as working cost significantly more. Given the intended use I felt that this was a reasonable buy. Only disappointment was the lack of ethernet but, as noted in my OP edit, it seems ethernet was nor available on any of these early PowerBooks outside of the 5xx series.

Hey, that's the computer that saved the world! :D


Congrats on your purchase. I hope that you have fun using it - any chance that you'll share some of your floppy writing adventures with us here? :)
 
Thanks all. I ended up buying a 5300ce. I wanted to avoid the 5300 series but, at $100, it was a great price. Other PowerBooks of similar cost were sold as untested and lacked a power supply. Those that were sold as working cost significantly more. Given the intended use I felt that this was a reasonable buy. Only disappointment was the lack of ethernet but, as noted in my OP edit, it seems ethernet was nor available on any of these early PowerBooks outside of the 5xx series.
The 5300's use a PCMCIA card for ethernet .
Next to the battery is the card case with is released by a slider under the body.
It holds 6 std cards or 2 double thickness cards .
The 2 slots are next to the CD drive on the other side
I have 2 ethernet cards included in a bundle that I was going to give away with a working 5300 that has a broken lid hinge.
However that post will probably be deleted by a moderator when they see it as I am not allowed to buy swap sell or give away anything yet.
The 5300 had 2 slots & I think the WallStreet & Lombard had a single type 2 ( thick card or thin card ) and the Pismo had the same double slot as the 5300 series also had them then they were discontinued in macs however they are still available but I am fairly sure the PC ones did not work in a Mac .
They were not dropped by Mac till 2006 so there are lot of them out there although most of the mac ones have extra RRAM or a drive or a big screen video card .
Thee was a Nbus car reader but not sure if they were ever ported onto aPCI card .
The Airbus ( as in jet ) uses a tone of them to plug into the planes mainframe for doing various checks & for emergency situations.
They are of course non volatile

Looks like there is some on Evilpay right now and probably more ( cheaper on other sales sites )
 
Last edited:
The 5300's use a PCMCIA card for ethernet .
Next to the battery is the card case with is released by a slider under the body.
It holds 6 std cards or 2 double thickness cards .
The 2 slots are next to the CD drive on the other side
I have 2 ethernet cards included in a bundle that I was going to give away with a working 5300 that has a broken lid hinge.
However that post will probably be deleted by a moderator when they see it as I am not allowed to buy swap sell or give away anything yet.
The 5300 had 2 slots & I think the WallStreet & Lombard had a single type 2 ( thick card or thin card ) and the Pismo had the same double slot as the 5300 series also had them then they were discontinued in macs however they are still available but I am fairly sure the PC ones did not work in a Mac .
They were not dropped by Mac till 2006 so there are lot of them out there although most of the mac ones have extra RRAM or a drive or a big screen video card .
Thee was a Nbus car reader but not sure if they were ever ported onto aPCI card .
The Airbus ( as in jet ) uses a tone of them to plug into the planes mainframe for doing various checks & for emergency situations.
They are of course non volatile

Looks like there is some on Evilpay right now and probably more ( cheaper on other sales sites )
I did hear that the hinges were a weak point on these models. However it seems like they're a problem on several other models as well (thinking the TiBook). Given the little use I hope mine holds out.

As for the ethernet I was surprised to see them add it to the 5xx series and then remove it from all subsequent models until the arrival of the TiBook.

Will that PCMCIA card work with the 5300ce (MacOS versions 7.5.2 - 9.1)?
 
I did see that, maybe I'll have to watch the movie :)

Only if it doesn't involve spending money! The film is a triumph of spectacle over substance. I'll leave it there, lest I cause outrage to a fan...

Moving on, the 5300 appears to have an undeserved bad reputation - it's described erroneously as the Mac that would catch fire, even though the batteries which were responsible for this PR disaster never even reached one consumer.

Have a look at this blog if you've not already come across it:

In defence of the PowerBook 5300 – System Folder

It's definitely a good read and it punctures much of the negative perceptions that surround the machine. :)
 
Only if it doesn't involve spending money! The film is a triumph of spectacle over substance. I'll leave it there, lest I cause outrage to a fan...

Moving on, the 5300 appears to have an undeserved bad reputation - it's described erroneously as the Mac that would catch fire, even though the batteries which were responsible for this PR disaster never even reached one consumer.

Have a look at this blog if you've not already come across it:

In defence of the PowerBook 5300 – System Folder

It's definitely a good read and it punctures much of the negative perceptions that surround the machine. :)
I agree, after doing research on it I think the issues are overblown. Especially the batteries catching fire. I'm looking forward to getting it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheShortTimer
In my opinion, the 5300 has two deserved areas of criticism, the hinges and the power connector.

The hinges because these really are amongst the worst of all the PowerBooks, and if you look at many photos of 190 and 5300 PBs where the screen is open, you'll see white between the bottom of the screen and the front panel surround - this is a sign the hinges are weakened and failing. Just about every 190/5300 either has this, or did have this problem.

The power connector not uncommonly parts company with the logic board, meaning the system may or may not power up at all, but if it does, usually needs the connector angled just right.

The problem is caused by the fact that the power connector is longer than usual, and in normal use can be brushed against a desk top when lifting or moving the computer. The leverage caused breaks the solder joints internally.

There was a long-term repair program that Apple ran to deal with both issues, and 190/5300 models that were returned for a fix under the program had their serial numbers updated with an 'AA' suffix. If the label has that, it's been repaired and should be somewhat better... but sadly as my 190cs and a 5300cs I have both prove, even when repaired, they are still susceptible to these two faults.

There never really was a battery issue - other than that the potentially hazardous batteries were replaced by lower capacity, older technology cells for production machines that made it to users. They're not particularly great performers either, but they are excellent laptops which are reasonably light, well balanced and quite capable. They are good machines if carefully looked after - particularly if they have the 'AA' suffix on the serial number. My guess is that most survivors these days will.

Watch out for a failed mouse-click panel on the palm rest though - they fail quite easily, but can be repaired easily too with a straightening piece of plastic glued underneath.
 
  • Like
Reactions: m1maverick
These criticisms appear to be inline with what I've read about in my research but you've helped point out some things to look out for upon its arrival. As this will be a very low usage system if it's in good condition when it arrives it will likely stay that way. It'll act more as a desktop system than a portable.

Initially I wanted to avoid the 5300 series but the price was too good to pass up when other systems were going for more and, for the lower cost ones, weren't even tested or including a power supply. As long as it works when I receive it I expect it to function good for my needs (performance isn't much of a concern as it'll primarily be used to write floppy disks of images)
 
Well, I started off with none and now I've got two. Aside from the aforementioned 5300ce I just purchased one of the 180c's that I had initially looked at. This is one that has been listed as "For parts only" as the seller doesn't have a power supply (or claims not to) which they could use to test it. Seller sent me an unsolicited substantial discount offer but I still hesitant (as I no longer need one and this one is unknown operational condition). I decided to make a ridiculous counter offer which, if accepted, made it worth the risk. So, for $35 I have added a PowerBook 180c to my collection (i really did want one that had the trackball).
 
UPDATE: The PowerBook arrived on Thursday and it is in really good condition except that it does have the hinge signs that za9ra22 mentioned. It still holds nicely and isn't all that bad (I'll post pictures later).

Upon initial receipt it didn't power on at all. I measured the power supply with a meter and didn't get anything. So I figured I'd have to deal with that. Took it to the basement workbench, plugged it in and lo and behold it was now working. So I eagerly went back upstairs to plug it into the PowerBook. Success! The system powered on and I was pleased. Very nice system and it reminded me of how good MacOS really was (from a useability perspective). I much prefer its interface to OS X / macOS.

Unfortunately when I went to power it on over the weekend...nothing. I know the power adapter is working as the power indicator light in the upper right of the screen is illuminated. I decided to pull the battery to see if a dead battery might be drawing too much power and affecting the system. Nope, even with the battery removed it refused to power on.

I disconnected the power adapter and let it sit. Plugging it back in and it powered right up (interestingly it powers on when I plug in the power adapter, I don't need to use the power button). In previous testing I noticed the brightness and contrast buttons didn't seem to work. Thinking these might be controlled via software I went to the Control Panel to see if there was a way to adjust them through there (the screen is bright and easy to read as it is but I should be able to change these in some way). Unfortunately while doing this the system just powered off and refused to power back on with the power button (the power button does power the system on if I power the system off but it hasn't ever powered it on unless I have done that).

Plugging and unplugging the power supply doesn't power on the system. It appears I have to unplug it, wait a short period of time, and then plug it back in. Unfortunately it continues to power itself off shortly thereafter. Unless someone has any ideas it appears there's something wrong with it.

I've reached out to the seller and they claimed it did work when they last used it but it had been a while. I'm a little bummed as this is a really nice system (came with an Apple case and original manuals) save for the 5300 curse.

I did note from za9ra22 post that there was an issue with the power connector and that the cabled might need to be positioned a particular way. Moving the connector while plugged in doesn't appear to change anything. How easy is this system to disassemble? I'd be willing to keep it if I can service it myself but if it's going to be an issue then I'll probably end up returning it (something I'd rather not do).
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheShortTimer
There are knowledgeable folks adept at component diagnosis & repair over on TD. They have a powerbook forum spanning 68k through PPC powerbooks so they might be able to help you as well. Best of luck to you. $35 bucks, what a score :)

68k and PPC Powerbooks
Thanks. I forgot the first rule in troubleshooting these old Macs: Try resetting the PRAM! I did so and it looks like it's behaving a little bit better. I will see how it goes throughout the day.

This one was $125, the $35 one was the PowerBook 180c which hasn't arrived yet. This one was sold as working whereas the 180c was sold as parts / repair as the seller couldn't test it.
 
Thanks. I forgot the first rule in troubleshooting these old Macs: Try resetting the PRAM! I did so and it looks like it's behaving a little bit better. I will see how it goes throughout the day.

Great news! :)

It might be worthwhile keeping an eye out for replacement hinges in case they pop up at a decent price.

This one was $125, the $35 one was the PowerBook 180c which hasn't arrived yet. This one was sold as working whereas the 180c was sold as parts / repair as the seller couldn't test it.

Fingers crossed that it just needs a new power supply. If servicing is involved, would you feel confident enough to tackle it yourself with pointers from TD as @Certificate of Excellence has suggested? A restoration/repair project would be fun to follow if you're up doing it. :)
 
UPDATE: The PowerBook arrived on Thursday and it is in really good condition except that it does have the hinge signs that za9ra22 mentioned. It still holds nicely and isn't all that bad (I'll post pictures later).

Upon initial receipt it didn't power on at all. I measured the power supply with a meter and didn't get anything. So I figured I'd have to deal with that. Took it to the basement workbench, plugged it in and lo and behold it was now working. So I eagerly went back upstairs to plug it into the PowerBook. Success! The system powered on and I was pleased. Very nice system and it reminded me of how good MacOS really was (from a useability perspective). I much prefer its interface to OS X / macOS.

Unfortunately when I went to power it on over the weekend...nothing. I know the power adapter is working as the power indicator light in the upper right of the screen is illuminated. I decided to pull the battery to see if a dead battery might be drawing too much power and affecting the system. Nope, even with the battery removed it refused to power on.

I disconnected the power adapter and let it sit. Plugging it back in and it powered right up (interestingly it powers on when I plug in the power adapter, I don't need to use the power button). In previous testing I noticed the brightness and contrast buttons didn't seem to work. Thinking these might be controlled via software I went to the Control Panel to see if there was a way to adjust them through there (the screen is bright and easy to read as it is but I should be able to change these in some way). Unfortunately while doing this the system just powered off and refused to power back on with the power button (the power button does power the system on if I power the system off but it hasn't ever powered it on unless I have done that).

Plugging and unplugging the power supply doesn't power on the system. It appears I have to unplug it, wait a short period of time, and then plug it back in. Unfortunately it continues to power itself off shortly thereafter. Unless someone has any ideas it appears there's something wrong with it.

I've reached out to the seller and they claimed it did work when they last used it but it had been a while. I'm a little bummed as this is a really nice system (came with an Apple case and original manuals) save for the 5300 curse.

I did note from za9ra22 post that there was an issue with the power connector and that the cabled might need to be positioned a particular way. Moving the connector while plugged in doesn't appear to change anything. How easy is this system to disassemble? I'd be willing to keep it if I can service it myself but if it's going to be an issue then I'll probably end up returning it (something I'd rather not do).
The 5300 will power on directly from plugging it in if the PRAM battery is dead - it doesn't mean there's a problem with the power button, which will work perfectly normally as long as the computer remains powered. Quite a few of the PowerBooks around this time behave the same, so it's normal.

The original power supplies can be rather fickle - I have two of them and they usually work, but one or other sometimes doesn't seem to. I have a modern replacement which is consistent.

If the power light on the screen comes on when you connect up the adapter, that is the so-called 'green light of death (GLOD) and it means the system has failed and can't start. It sounds fatal, but usually isn't, and usually clears with a reset (little rectangular button on the back on the 5300). The power light on the top-right of the screen should only light when the system is sleeping, and it will then flash every second.

The problem with the 5300 and uncommanded powering down is likely to be a loose power connector - as described previously - where it typically needs re-soldering on the logic board. This can also cause issues getting the system powered up, because when plugging the adapter into the back, the connector itself on the board isn't making proper and complete contact. Sometimes very gently wiggling the power connector helps - but likewise, with a loose connector not firmly attached to the board, it sometimes also makes it even more loose.

To make matters worse, if the screen is showing signs of hinge problems, it means they are very likely to fail, and the screen will not rotate smoothly - instead it will appear to pull forwards on one side or the other, so it no longer fits flush into the lower case. It will likely also feel very stiff when opening or closing.

They can be helped by opening/closing them with pressure on the hinge area at the bottom of the screen, rather than leverage on the top edge of the display, but hinges are very weak on this design, and most 190/5300s show signs of this problem. I have a 190 which works well, but the left-hand hinge is almost totally broken, so I no longer use it.

Disassembly isn't a big problem, so resoldering the power connector on the logic board is pretty easy, if a little fiddly and time consuming, but I don't know of any way to repair the hinges, other than with replacement parts as and when they might be available of eBay, or perhaps from a parts machine.

A useful source for repairing/troubleshooting these systems is the PowerBook 190/5300 Service Source from Apple. (PDF attached)

The 5300 is a great PowerBook if you get a good one, or have the parts to repair one and make it good, but it was a fatally flawed design in terms of hinges and power connector. I have 2 190s, both with hinges failed, and 3 5300s, one has a broken power connector, one an intermittent power connector and creaky hinges, and the last one was a new old stock unit which was from the repair program and never put into circulation, so is perfect.... so far.

For reliability and better robustness, a 3400 would be more recommendable, though rather bigger and heavier. The advantage of the 190/5300 is that it is very compact since it wasn't designed to accommodate a CD drive.
 

Attachments

  • powerbook_190.5300.pdf
    2 MB · Views: 163
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.