Which PowerBook

[m1maverick]

Great news!

It might be worthwhile keeping an eye out for replacement hinges in case they pop up at a decent price.

I may purchase one if the price is right. As it is I don't expect this system to see a lot of use so I am not sure if I want to put money into it given that the hinge, while having an issue, is working.

Fingers crossed that it just needs a new power supply. If servicing is involved, would you feel confident enough to tackle it yourself with pointers from TD as @Certificate of Excellence has suggested? A restoration/repair project would be fun to follow if you're up doing it.

I'm fine with working on systems but I don't want to get mired down in a repair that is likely to break more things during disassembly (plastics tend to get brittle). The 5300ce is currently working I see no reason to disassemble it until such time as I have a reason to. The 180c is unknown at this time. It should arrive tomorrow but I don't have a power supply for it so I can't test it myself. However a visual inspection might help me get a feel for what to expect.

 

[m1maverick]

The 5300 will power on directly from plugging it in if the PRAM battery is dead - it doesn't mean there's a problem with the power button, which will work perfectly normally as long as the computer remains powered. Quite a few of the PowerBooks around this time behave the same, so it's normal.

The original power supplies can be rather fickle - I have two of them and they usually work, but one or other sometimes doesn't seem to. I have a modern replacement which is consistent.

If the power light on the screen comes on when you connect up the adapter, that is the so-called 'green light of death (GLOD) and it means the system has failed and can't start. It sounds fatal, but usually isn't, and usually clears with a reset (little rectangular button on the back on the 5300). The power light on the top-right of the screen should only light when the system is sleeping, and it will then flash every second.

The problem with the 5300 and uncommanded powering down is likely to be a loose power connector - as described previously - where it typically needs re-soldering on the logic board. This can also cause issues getting the system powered up, because when plugging the adapter into the back, the connector itself on the board isn't making proper and complete contact. Sometimes very gently wiggling the power connector helps - but likewise, with a loose connector not firmly attached to the board, it sometimes also makes it even more loose.

To make matters worse, if the screen is showing signs of hinge problems, it means they are very likely to fail, and the screen will not rotate smoothly - instead it will appear to pull forwards on one side or the other, so it no longer fits flush into the lower case. It will likely also feel very stiff when opening or closing.

They can be helped by opening/closing them with pressure on the hinge area at the bottom of the screen, rather than leverage on the top edge of the display, but hinges are very weak on this design, and most 190/5300s show signs of this problem. I have a 190 which works well, but the left-hand hinge is almost totally broken, so I no longer use it.

Disassembly isn't a big problem, so resoldering the power connector on the logic board is pretty easy, if a little fiddly and time consuming, but I don't know of any way to repair the hinges, other than with replacement parts as and when they might be available of eBay, or perhaps from a parts machine.

A useful source for repairing/troubleshooting these systems is the PowerBook 190/5300 Service Source from Apple. (PDF attached)

The 5300 is a great PowerBook if you get a good one, or have the parts to repair one and make it good, but it was a fatally flawed design in terms of hinges and power connector. I have 2 190s, both with hinges failed, and 3 5300s, one has a broken power connector, one an intermittent power connector and creaky hinges, and the last one was a new old stock unit which was from the repair program and never put into circulation, so is perfect.... so far.

For reliability and better robustness, a 3400 would be more recommendable, though rather bigger and heavier. The advantage of the 190/5300 is that it is very compact since it wasn't designed to accommodate a CD drive.

Mine has two issues at the moment:

1. The hinge issue is as you've described.
2. The floppy disk doesn't eject properly either automatically or with the eject button (via paper clip). I need to use tweezers to remove disks.

Even though the hinge is creaky and separating as you've described this system isn't expected to see frequent use therefore I think it will be fine for its intended purpose. The floppy issue, which was the entire reason for buying this system in the first place, seems like something I can fix by disassembling it and checking clearances. I think it may have been tweaked at one point and that's kind of messed up the clearances. If anything it's modular and I can easily swap it out.

It is does have the AA branding on the serial number tag so this is one that was "serviced" by Apple to address the weaknesses. But, as was said, some still remain.

The power on issue was cured by resetting the PRAM. Good to know about how it powers on and especially the power indicator on the upper right of the screen. I was wondering why, now that it is powering on, it was not on. I now know that's normal (it was illuminated when it wouldn't power on). Wiggling the power connector doesn't cause any problems so I think it's good (though it does feel like I am going to break something each time I plug it in).

This really is a nice little system, it's too bad about the hinge.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Do you 3D print? There are a few discussions on Reddit where 5300 owners talk about 3D printing a hinge fix for them. I wonder if there is a design out there on thingiverse or elsewhere. Action Retro Sean has a 500 hinge fix video that is really cool.

 

[za9ra22]

Mine has two issues at the moment:

1. The hinge issue is as you've described.
2. The floppy disk doesn't eject properly either automatically or with the eject button (via paper clip). I need to use tweezers to remove disks.

Even though the hinge is creaky and separating as you've described this system isn't expected to see frequent use therefore I think it will be fine for its intended purpose. The floppy issue, which was the entire reason for buying this system in the first place, seems like something I can fix by disassembling it and checking clearances. I think it may have been tweaked at one point and that's kind of messed up the clearances. If anything it's modular and I can easily swap it out.

It is does have the AA branding on the serial number tag so this is one that was "serviced" by Apple to address the weaknesses. But, as was said, some still remain.

The power on issue was cured by resetting the PRAM. Good to know about how it powers on and especially the power indicator on the upper right of the screen. I was wondering why, now that it is powering on, it was not on. I now know that's normal (it was illuminated when it wouldn't power on). Wiggling the power connector doesn't cause any problems so I think it's good (though it does feel like I am going to break something each time I plug it in).

This really is a nice little system, it's too bad about the hinge.

They are great systems. Compact and reasonably light, excellent keyboards, and even the passive matrix screens are usually sharp and clear with good colour saturation. The plastics are, unfortunately, what they are, but considering that I snapped both hinges on a PDQ, and there are plenty of hinge failures reported on almost all the other PBs of this era, it isn't a really big deal - just something to be very careful with.

Your floppy issue may well be something like the gear which operates the eject mechanism being partially stripped or broken - it's 3 (I think) nylon/plastic cogs. It happens a lot on the drives in other Macs of the time (and earlier) and 3D printed replacements are cheap and easy to source.

I have found with the auto-eject drives that sometimes they are stiff and the disk doesn't come out, but loosen up with use and improve, so it might be worth exercising it a little first.

The floppy module is not the easiest in the world to get into, but replacement modules pop up on eBay quite regularly too, and the floppy modules from 190 and 3400 models are the same. (The 3400 slot is larger to accommodate a CD module, but the floppy module is the standard 190/5300 part).

Part of the issue with the power connector is that it is relatively heavy for the thickness of the barrel, so it creates more stress on the solder joints than the older type for the 100-series. That and the fact that the socket is mounted quite low on the back panel, so there is a tendency when picking it off a table, to 'ground out' the plug on the table, creating a force on the solder joints. I found that dropping the feet at the back avoided any risk of this, by lifting the connector much higher, and also providing an easier grip to lift the 5300 up.

 

[ww2_1943]

I was just thinking, the PowerBook G3 Wallstreet/PDQ has a factory floppy module.

 

[m1maverick]

Do you 3D print? There are a few discussions on Reddit where 5300 owners talk about 3D printing a hinge fix for them. I wonder if there is a design out there on thingiverse or elsewhere. Action Retro Sean has a 500 hinge fix video that is really cool.

I do not nor do I know anyone who does. I will investigate the video you mentioned. Is the hinge made of plastic?

 

[m1maverick]

They are great systems. Compact and reasonably light, excellent keyboards, and even the passive matrix screens are usually sharp and clear with good colour saturation. The plastics are, unfortunately, what they are, but considering that I snapped both hinges on a PDQ, and there are plenty of hinge failures reported on almost all the other PBs of this era, it isn't a really big deal - just something to be very careful with.

I was looking at some "parts" 5300's on Ebay yesterday. Not sure if the hinges are interchangeable on the various models. At this time, since I am not in a hurry, I didn't see any I would consider purchasing but I'll keep an eye out. This is a really nice system. Aside from the hinge the only flaw I observed was a crack along the top of the battery.

A minor issue is some green corrosion on the battery contacts both on the battery and internal. I'll neutralize the acid with baking soda and clean them in the future. Since the battery is likely dead and I have no plans for mobile use this isn't a big concern.

Your floppy issue may well be something like the gear which operates the eject mechanism being partially stripped or broken - it's 3 (I think) nylon/plastic cogs. It happens a lot on the drives in other Macs of the time (and earlier) and 3D printed replacements are cheap and easy to source.

I have found with the auto-eject drives that sometimes they are stiff and the disk doesn't come out, but loosen up with use and improve, so it might be worth exercising it a little first.

The floppy module is not the easiest in the world to get into, but replacement modules pop up on eBay quite regularly too, and the floppy modules from 190 and 3400 models are the same. (The 3400 slot is larger to accommodate a CD module, but the floppy module is the standard 190/5300 part).

Part of the issue with the power connector is that it is relatively heavy for the thickness of the barrel, so it creates more stress on the solder joints than the older type for the 100-series. That and the fact that the socket is mounted quite low on the back panel, so there is a tendency when picking it off a table, to 'ground out' the plug on the table, creating a force on the solder joints. I found that dropping the feet at the back avoided any risk of this, by lifting the connector much higher, and also providing an easier grip to lift the 5300 up.

I am familiar with the gear failure as I have repaired maybe 50 - 75 of these auto eject drives. A few of them had stripped or broken gears (it's been my observation it's one specific gear). Do these use the same eject motor / gear configuration as the compact Mac drives? If so I have access to plenty original gears.

The issue definitely is not a problem with the eject motor though. The motor does attempt to eject the disk but it's unable to pop out of the slot because disk rubs on something in the mechanism. It does this either electronically or when I use the manual eject button (though the itsy bitsy hole). I am going to try removing the floppy door cover as that popped out. Here is a picture before I disassembled the drive and popped the bin back into the hole.

Here is a picture of the hinge and the lower part of the screen which shows the white (is this an adhesive?) as the screen has slightly separated there:

 

[m1maverick]

I was just thinking, the PowerBook G3 Wallstreet/PDQ has a factory floppy module.

Will this work with the 5300 series? I guess it's good that manufacturers reuse a lot of parts between different models. Makes it a little easier to find them if you can search across several different ones.

 

[za9ra22]

Will this work with the 5300 series? I guess it's good that manufacturers reuse a lot of parts between different models. Makes it a little easier to find them if you can search across several different ones.

No, the Walstreet/PDq modules are not interchangeable. 190/5300/3400 (possibly 3500/Kanga) modules are.

 

[ww2_1943]

Will this work with the 5300 series? I guess it's good that manufacturers reuse a lot of parts between different models. Makes it a little easier to find them if you can search across several different ones.

I didn't realize you purchased a machine already when I posted. I meant find a complete PowerBook G3 Wallstreet or PDQ.

 

[za9ra22]

I was looking at some "parts" 5300's on Ebay yesterday. Not sure if the hinges are interchangeable on the various models. At this time, since I am not in a hurry, I didn't see any I would consider purchasing but I'll keep an eye out. This is a really nice system. Aside from the hinge the only flaw I observed was a crack along the top of the battery.

A minor issue is some green corrosion on the battery contacts both on the battery and internal. I'll neutralize the acid with baking soda and clean them in the future. Since the battery is likely dead and I have no plans for mobile use this isn't a big concern.



I am familiar with the gear failure as I have repaired maybe 50 - 75 of these auto eject drives. A few of them had stripped or broken gears (it's been my observation it's one specific gear). Do these use the same eject motor / gear configuration as the compact Mac drives? If so I have access to plenty original gears.

The issue definitely is not a problem with the eject motor though. The motor does attempt to eject the disk but it's unable to pop out of the slot because disk rubs on something in the mechanism. It does this either electronically or when I use the manual eject button (though the itsy bitsy hole). I am going to try removing the floppy door cover as that popped out. Here is a picture before I disassembled the drive and popped the bin back into the hole.

View attachment 2162316

Here is a picture of the hinge and the lower part of the screen which shows the white (is this an adhesive?) as the screen has slightly separated there:

View attachment 2162317

View attachment 2162318

I don't think the eject mechanism on the floppy is the same as the typical models used in desktop Macs - the drives themselves are thinner of course - which may be the issue you have because even a slight deformity in the top plate of the drive could be enough to foul the disk as it moves.

The hinge is certainly misaligned in that photo, but the question is whether or not it is stable. Some repairs to the hinges can result in this kind of misalignment, but the hinge isn't loose any longer and as long as the screen is opened/closed carefully, it doesn't seem to get worse.

Alternatively, if it's like my 190, the hinge moves relative to the chassis, so when the screen is opened or closed, it pulls the hinge off the mounts under the clutch cover - or fractures the plastic mount the hinge is still fixed to.

By the time it reaches this condition, it probably won't open smoothly, and can often be moved in and out of alignment with the clutch cover by thumb pressure. It's only a matter of time then before the hinge actually fails.

As far as I know, only 190 and 5300 hinges are interchangeable.

The white stuff you can see between the lower edge of the screen and the bezel isn't an adhesive as far as I know. It's fibrous and appears to me as if it's the edge of the EMI insulator where it folds from behind the screen under the lower edge and a small part of the front. In this location it isn't structural - it just becomes visible when the bezel begins to part company with the display panel, and is therefore a quick way to spot a 190/5300 which is having, or has had, hinge issues.

The attached (from the service manual) shows the hinge mount which often fractures.

 

[m1maverick]

I didn't realize you purchased a machine already when I posted. I meant find a complete PowerBook G3 Wallstreet or PDQ.

I did consider them but the asking prices were higher than I wanted to pay.

 

[m1maverick]

I don't think the eject mechanism on the floppy is the same as the typical models used in desktop Macs - the drives themselves are thinner of course - which may be the issue you have because even a slight deformity in the top plate of the drive could be enough to foul the disk as it moves.

The hinge is certainly misaligned in that photo, but the question is whether or not it is stable. Some repairs to the hinges can result in this kind of misalignment, but the hinge isn't loose any longer and as long as the screen is opened/closed carefully, it doesn't seem to get worse.

Alternatively, if it's like my 190, the hinge moves relative to the chassis, so when the screen is opened or closed, it pulls the hinge off the mounts under the clutch cover - or fractures the plastic mount the hinge is still fixed to.
View attachment 2162781
By the time it reaches this condition, it probably won't open smoothly, and can often be moved in and out of alignment with the clutch cover by thumb pressure. It's only a matter of time then before the hinge actually fails.

As far as I know, only 190 and 5300 hinges are interchangeable.

The white stuff you can see between the lower edge of the screen and the bezel isn't an adhesive as far as I know. It's fibrous and appears to me as if it's the edge of the EMI insulator where it folds from behind the screen under the lower edge and a small part of the front. In this location it isn't structural - it just becomes visible when the bezel begins to part company with the display panel, and is therefore a quick way to spot a 190/5300 which is having, or has had, hinge issues.

The attached (from the service manual) shows the hinge mount which often fractures.

View attachment 2162809

That looks like a plastic part, is it? If so I can see where it would wear and break off over time.

 

[za9ra22]

That looks like a plastic part, is it? If so I can see where it would wear and break off over time.

It is, yes. The tendency is for the opening/closing of the screen to cause torsional force on the hinge mounts, and given the plastics - which weren't that great to begin with - they fracture. In some cases, the metal hinge itself will twist.

That's the cause of the misalignment with the clutch cover.

 

[Mowerman]

I did hear that the hinges were a weak point on these models. However it seems like they're a problem on several other models as well (thinking the TiBook). Given the little use I hope mine holds out.

As for the ethernet I was surprised to see them add it to the 5xx series and then remove it from all subsequent models until the arrival of the TiBook.

Will that PCMCIA card work with the 5300ce (MacOS versions 7.5.2 - 9.1)?

yes the PCMIA Cards worked in 7,5 & 8.? which is what I use to run on the 5300
However I got the Wall street really cheap so the 5300 became a mobile photo album
Not sure if PCMIA is cross platform though .

 

[m1maverick]

Decided I am going to invest a little bit into the PowerBook 180 (i.e. buying a floppy drive, hard drive, and I believe an HD mounting bracket). It looks like it might be better to purchase a "as-is" parts system. Does anyone know which model PowerBooks (140, 145, 160, 165, and 170) would have these parts in common with the 180?

 

[jimblair]

A bit of trivia, for those that have a PowerBook 5300...when the machine is starting up (or restarting), as soon as the cursor appears in the top left of the startup gray screen, use the following key sequence to reveal the hidden ROM photo...

...as soon as the cursor appears depress the Esc key and hold it down...then depress the "m" key, then "a" key, and finally the "o" key, all in squence...if you catch that sequence just right, you'll see a hidden photo of the core design team.

 

[Raging Dufus]

if you catch that sequence just right, you'll see a hidden photo of the core design team.

If it doesn't catch fire first