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EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
13,742
11,447
A lot of angst in this thread, but I'll add my 2 cents anyway.

I bought the MacBook to replace a 13" MacBook Pro. The MBP is an older model with 4 GB RAM and was updated to SSD. It's OK and I could update the memory to 8 GB, but honestly I hate carrying the thing around. Most of the time it just sits on my desk at home while I do my real work on my iMac. Plus the thing is too big to use comfortably on the plane in economy class. I don't fly business class most of the time.

The MacBook I got turns out to be way, way faster than my old machine, yes for productivity work (mainly business applications, etc), yet has the perfect footprint, and is oooohhh so light. I love carrying it with me, it's just so convenient. It's so light it's actually replaced my iPad Air 2 for a media consumption as well to a large extent. Now, both my iPad Air 2 and my 13" MacBook Pro sit on my desk mostly unused, and my MacBook is my go-to portable machine (other than my iPhone).

When I want to do more power computing, I will be using my 4.2 GHz 2017 Core i7 iMac. I am also waiting for a USB to DisplayPort dongle in order to use my old 2010 iMac as an external monitor for my iMac, but for some users they could do the same thing with a MacBook. It would be fine for light multimedia creation, and moderate business application work. It feels very peppy, and the Retina screen is nice. BTW, I did some testing and it appears the thing throttles to 2.5 GHz, so we're talking about effectively an 2.5 GHz machine for some sustained loads, and a 3.0 GHz machine in Turbo for very bursty work like... you guessed it... light multimedia work and moderate business application work. And remember, it has HyperThreading too, contributes to its fast feel. I think this machine would be a very good university student machine, and better than the MacBook Air in many, many ways, not the least of which is the screen. It's also appropriate for people like me who aren't editing the next Hollywood blockbuster but need a decent and modern moderate productivity machine.

BTW, I was doing some testing with 4K HEVC video recorded from my iPhone running iOS 11. It turns out for software decode, my iMac Core i7 2.93 GHz quad-core with HyperThreading performs about as well as my 2017 MacBook m3, as in not very well. However, with the High Sierra update, the MacBook m3 will get hardware HEVC decode support, and the iMac Core i7 870 (from 2010) won't. In other tests the iMac would be faster, but for practical purposes the MacBook m3 makes for the better productivity machine in many cases. Yes, my 2010 iMac is, well, from 2010, but even the 2017 MacBook Air would be a problem. That does not get any hardware HEVC decode either, and in the era of ubiquitous iPhones, that's going to be a really annoying limitation going forward.

Case in point: Just running Photos on the old iMac or even a recent MacBook Air would be a problem, because of the lack of hardware HEVC acceleration that the lowly MacBook m3 has (in High Sierra), since Photos is the repository for recorded iDevice videos as well. The main difficulty with the m3 is the screen real estate for applications like that, but that is the trade off for a wonderfully light and portable machine. But of course, for home (or dorm) use one can always add an external monitor. And the same limitations apply to a 13" MacBook Air or a 13" MacBook Pro, just to a lesser extent.

I get the best of both world though: I bought Apple's fastest 2017 iMac to be used in a dual 27" screen setup, and I also bought Apple's slowest 2017 MacBook, for uber portability and moderate productivity as well as multimedia and internet consumption on the road. I did spec it with 16 GB though (which ironically is the same max as the MacBook Pros), since I expect in a few years 8 GB will be limiting. Right now 8 GB is enough for most usage though.
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors G5
Mar 19, 2008
14,774
31,533
All the positive talk in here makes me miss my 2016 12" a bit..

I really do wish they'd make a 14 or 15" MacBook that would take the same sensibilities and design tradeoffs and really try to stay super lean/light while adding a touch more screen real estate.

Ultimately the screen size is what made me leave....it was "ohhhhh so close", but I just need a touch more..
Otherwise, I loved the bloody thing!!!
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
13,742
11,447
All the positive talk in here makes me miss my 2016 12" a bit..

I really do wish they'd make a 14 or 15" MacBook that would take the same sensibilities and design tradeoffs and really try to stay super lean/light while adding a touch more screen real estate.

Ultimately the screen size is what made me leave....it was "ohhhhh so close", but I just need a touch more..
Otherwise, I loved the bloody thing!!!
Yes, everyone's needs are different. I can see the case for a 14" MacBook, although for myself I would never get one. It would just be too big and awkward for my usage.

From the marketing perspective, I suspect Apple thinks it would eat into MacBook Pro sales too much... because honestly the machine otherwise is that good.

This is the 3 size tiers they used to have, but now a bit different. It used to be 13", 15", and 17", and now they've settled on 12", 13", and 15"... with the 13" MacBook Air all but end-of-lifed.
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors G5
Mar 19, 2008
14,774
31,533
I suspect Apple thinks it would eat into MacBook Pro sales too much

Since Apple seems to be in love with the TouchBar (and I am not), I'd vote for killing off the Non-TB MBP 13" and make all the Pro's have TB (if they insist that is - I'd really rather it be gone totally) and have all MB's be Non-TB.

That might help differentiate the lines a bit again too.

I only suggest this since they seem to be in love with the TB. I actually think the TB is in reverse in terms of market position as most of what the TB seems to show/want to suggest/be used for would be better for more basic users/uses instead of Pro's with established workflows and who generally know loads of KB shortcuts, etc.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
13,742
11,447
BTW, I am somewhat biased. For a very, very long time now, I have been pining with a MacBook Air form factor, but with more OS X friendly font sizing. So, I wished for a 1152x720 12" machine with 113 ppi, the latter ppi like the MacBook Pro. I never liked the Air's screen quality, nor its odd 128 ppi. (You'll see posts from me on other forums about this something like 8 years ago.) Then when the Retina screens came out, I changed my wish to a 2304x1440 12" machine at 226 ppi, maintaining the same font sizing as the Retina Pros.

My friends said they would never release that... and then in 2015 they did. Unfortunately, it only had one USB port (plus a headphone jack), and IMO a crappy keyboard. I didn't actually mind the single USB port that much, but the keyboard was a deal killer for me. Plus the fact that the speed of the 2015 wasn't so good didn't help matters. I was so disappointed. I had been pining for that machine for over half a decade and then they released it with some deal-killer issues for me. Plus I had learned about the multimedia upgrades in Kaby Lake, so I waited. In 2016 they didn't update the keyboard, but as mentioned I was going to wait it out anyway for Kaby Lake. So glad I did, despite some killer deals on IBM refurbs on 2016 models that showed in Canada a few months ago. In 2017, not only did they fix the keyboard and include Kaby Lake, they vastly improved the speed, to create this 2017 gem.

In 2017, the MacBook has matured. There will be improvements going forward, but they will be much more incremental in the near term. I'd like to see a second USB port (but don't expect one), and I'd like to see an improved trackpad as well. I would also like to eventually see a wide colour gamut screen, although the WCG screen may be a useful product differentiator for the Pro models in the near term. In 2019 the MacBook will also likely get Thunderbolt 3 since it will be included for free built-into the Intel chipsets at that time I believe.
 
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robbietop

Suspended
Jun 7, 2017
876
1,169
Good Ol' US of A
I do engineering and QA so.......it's wonderful, light, and versatile.
But here are what I really use it for:
  1. I have Parallels installed, making it the greatest home for Linux VMs, Windows VMs. I can replicated issues on my machine, SSH into Linux machines or switches, control any offsite VMs.
  2. Since it's not a behemoth Pro (no matter how thin Apple Makes it), it weighs nothing. I carry it with me everywhere. And since it is so thin, I can carry it and my iPad and the weight is still less than the lightest 2017 MacBook Pro 13". I do not travel anywhere without it. And that means bringing the VMs, VPNs, and everything below with me.
  3. Civ V and Civ VI. Great for when I travel. Great when I am at home having a drink. Connects via AirPlay to my stereo. Connects to my Apple TV.
  4. iCloud Drive reduces my need for SSD size. 256 GB feels small at first until you get the 200GB $2.99/month iCloud Drive. I have everything in the cloud now, and thus no need for a big Disk or a big screen.
  5. Great for editing documents, making spreadsheets, and doing various minor work things.
  6. Great for reading a book, although iPad is better.
  7. Runs XCode like a dream so I can whip up a quick app for my job I can deploy from my phone. Such as a log downloader over VPN, etc.
  8. Great for YouTube. Just absolutely perfect.
  9. Sitting in your lap, it feels as light as an iPad but with twice the complexity in the UI (iOS11 included). Plus a full backlit keyboard!
  10. If I ever take pics with my iPhone, I can come in and make a quick slideshow and give to family members. And then email it to them via iCloud Drive.
This machine is beast. It is thin enough to cut a cake. It is powerful enough to run my job. It weights barely more than an iPad.
Buy one! Unless you need hardcore editing. I will never buy another Pro, what a waste of power and way too expensive for my work.
 

dgdosen

macrumors 68030
Dec 13, 2003
2,742
1,381
Seattle
BTW, I am somewhat biased. For a very, very long time now, I have been pining with a MacBook Air form factor, but with more OS X friendly font sizing. So, I wished for a 1152x720 12" machine with 113 ppi, the latter ppi like the MacBook Pro. I never liked the Air's screen quality, nor its odd 128 ppi. (You'll see posts from me on other forums about this something like 8 years ago.) Then when the Retina screens came out, I changed my wish to a 2304x1440 12" machine at 226 ppi, maintaining the same font sizing as the Retina Pros.

My friends said they would never release that... and then in 2015 they did. Unfortunately, it only had one USB port (plus a headphone jack), and IMO a crappy keyboard. I didn't actually mind the single USB port that much, but the keyboard was a deal killer for me. Plus the fact that the speed of the 2015 wasn't so good didn't help matters. I was so disappointed. I had been pining for that machine for over half a decade and then they released it with some deal-killer issues for me. Plus I had learned about the multimedia upgrades in Kaby Lake, so I waited. In 2016 they didn't update the keyboard, but as mentioned I was going to wait it out anyway for Kaby Lake. So glad I did, despite some killer deals on IBM refurbs on 2016 models that showed in Canada a few months ago. In 2017, not only did they fix the keyboard and include Kaby Lake, they vastly improved the speed, to create this 2017 gem.

In 2017, the MacBook has matured. There will be improvements going forward, but they will be much more incremental in the near term. I'd like to see a second USB port (but don't expect one), and I'd like to see an improved trackpad as well. I would also like to eventually see a wide colour gamut screen, although the WCG screen may be a useful product differentiator for the Pro models in the near term. In 2019 the MacBook will also likely get Thunderbolt 3 since it will be included for free built-into the Intel chipsets at that time I believe.

I'm in the same boat... I used to use an 11" Macbook Air (still have it) as my main laptop and miss the extreme portability. I'd see no reason not to lug a MB around just about everywhere. My big need - is a good Linux development environment and support for local containerization - and I can do that pretty readily on a 4 year old MBP. I don't think that would be an issue for me - but would like to hear from others how that's working for them.
 

Vendoz

macrumors newbie
Jun 16, 2017
9
2
I'm really undecided about this laptop! For my usage it seems powerfull enough, but i love to play some light games when i am away from work... like Diablo 3, League of Legends, Hearthstone, and other similar games... until i see an accurate review about how this machine run those games, i will not buy it! Waiting for a notebookcheck.net review... :)

I have an old 2014 MBp and it runs all perfectly, so i hope in similar situation :D
 
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James.K.Polk

macrumors 6502a
Aug 31, 2015
862
324
Just took the plunge and ordered the base 12" to replace my 15". They are drastically different computers and I'm not sure either fits my needs perfectly but my wallet (and backpack) appreciates the 12" and at the rate I like to update computers, a little lack of RAM won't matter, most likely.
 

Mw0103

macrumors 6502
Feb 22, 2014
325
679
Just took the plunge and ordered the base 12" to replace my 15". They are drastically different computers and I'm not sure either fits my needs perfectly but my wallet (and backpack) appreciates the 12" and at the rate I like to update computers, a little lack of RAM won't matter, most likely.

RAM will not matter one bit for Word and Westlaw. I'm a practicing attorney--been happily using a base 2015 daily for the past 18 months.

And for extra screen real estate: iPad + duet: Post Your Mac Setup: Past & Present (Part 20)
 

KPOM

macrumors P6
Oct 23, 2010
18,031
7,872
All the positive talk in here makes me miss my 2016 12" a bit..

I really do wish they'd make a 14 or 15" MacBook that would take the same sensibilities and design tradeoffs and really try to stay super lean/light while adding a touch more screen real estate.

Ultimately the screen size is what made me leave....it was "ohhhhh so close", but I just need a touch more..
Otherwise, I loved the bloody thing!!!
For me 12" is the perfect size. My work notebook is a bulky HP EliteBook 820. It is heavier and thicker than a 13.3" rMBP but has only a 12.5" 16:9 1366x768 screen. My 12" MacBook with the 16:10 aspect ratio feels better (though the screen area is slightly smaller). But at about 60% of the weight and 40% of the thickness it is no contest which one I prefer.
 
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Mac_highlander

macrumors newbie
Apr 12, 2017
2
1
So just got my 2017 i5 8GB 512GB, replacing my 2016 same specs .... wow what a difference the keyboard makes .. also a bit faster and I can see that the battery is actually a big longer lasting.... I just made a 1:1 clone with carbon copy to an external SSD then used Migration assistant to pull all settings and software across... only stage thing is that safari "forgot" all its extensions (Yes Im logged into iCloud and its the sane account) all the rest seems to be fine ..

I use it due to always on aircraft and it weights nothing (ok 0.92KG) company this with my 10.5 over Duet and I have as much screen as required on the road , thanks to iCloud and drop box i can use the 10.5 iPad to present either on screen or via the HDMI dongle on screen ... taking notes on the IPAD with the pencil then save to iCloud ... great

much better than my 2017 Thinkpad X1C from the office .. but I've been using mac's for the last 20 years so i might be just a bit biased.. however the keyboard feedback is now a joy to type with (Powerpoint, Excel, Safari)
 

boltjames

macrumors 601
May 2, 2010
4,876
2,851
Reading the last few posts it's truly nice to see people understanding that the 12" MacBook is at its best as a second notebook used primarily for travel.

It's the weekend convertible of computers. It's a Porsche.
 

maerz001

macrumors 68020
Nov 2, 2010
2,405
2,297
Reading the last few posts it's truly nice to see people understanding that the 12" MacBook is at its best as a second notebook used primarily for travel.

It's the weekend convertible of computers. It's a Porsche.
For me it's an Air replacement. My only machine and I do more on it than the most people I know doing with their MBP. CAD, windows in VM, indesign, Gimp...

Some people just over estimate their need for CPU power. They buy a MBP and surf the web while doing some office stuff.
But as we had in another thread: Apple unfortunately doesn't offer bigger screens with less CPU.
 
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Jacoblee23

macrumors 65816
Nov 10, 2011
1,474
717
I bought a 2017 base model RMB today to go alongside my 2017 MacBook Pro w/touchbar. I loved the portability and the weight but I returned it. I was having lag and it seemed like it took a lot longer to do simple tasks than my MBP. I realized after I took it back though that it may have just been iCloud loading my photos that was slowing it down. I don't know for sure though. Oh well, maybe I will try it again someday. Overall, I preferred the MBP anyway, and not sure I can justify having two Macs.
 

DaMax85

macrumors member
May 19, 2011
88
34
For me it's an Air replacement. My only machine and I do more on it than the most people I know doing with their MBP. CAD, windows in VM, indesign, Gimp...

Some people just over estimate their need for CPU power. They buy a MBP and surf the web while doing some office stuff.
But as we had in another thread: Apple unfortunately doesn't offer bigger screens with less CPU.

I agree -- that's why at the $1299 price point, i think the entry-level MB is a better option for most users compared to the 13" MBP non-touch bar. Yes, the MacBook has a less powerful processor but you get double the SSD (256 GB vs. 128 GB)

The 12" MacBook is my only computer as well.
 

imagirlfriday

macrumors member
Sep 19, 2016
31
27
I'm back with an update on my user experience with my 2017 RMB.

I LOVE it! To me my current setup (RMB + 12.9 inch iPad Pro) is the best setup I ever had. The portability and the fact that it's incredibly lightweight outweighs any and all shortcomings (of which there are few), I have no issue at all with the monitor size, I never used the full screen feature before, now I sometimes do, works perfectly.

Whenever I see it, I makes me incredibly happy (I have the rosegold model). It does what I need it to do almost without limitations. And handling it is a joy. You can hold it in one hand standing up and check your email real quick without sitting down or breaking an arm.

The one and only real issue I have is the battery life, that's not great and paired with the fact that this is supposed to be a very mobile device it bugs me a bit. It charges super fast though, in a pinch you could probably just sit next to an outlet for a bit.

I'm currently doing an illustration class, so my workload is pretty much as high as it will get. I ran into my first problem with illustrator last week, when I was editing files with a lot of elements. I think that has to do with the fact that illustrator fills up the clipboard and only purges it when you shut down the application. Hence those files took forever to save.
Strangely my reaction was not, damn that thing is too slow for what I want to do, but that I'll happily change my workflow to accommodate for the lesser power, just so I can keep using this great little machine, that doesn't sit on me like a stone :)

PS and even editing a bit in iMovie worked without a hitch.

One more thing, you can't charge and at the same time stream a video and surf the web, it will overheat.
EDIT: @Saturn007 pointed out that since this was right during the first days I got my RMB that might have been due to "indexing restored hard drive contents". I have run another test and it was fine. So strike that one ;)

Other then that best computer I ever owned.

Oh and I recently got Astropad, haven't really tested it out yet but seems to work great and kind of ties both MB and iPad nicely together. You can even sit on the couch and have both on your lap at the same time.
 
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EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
13,742
11,447
Whenever I see it, I makes me incredibly happy (I have the rosegold model). It does what I need it to do almost without limitations. And handling it is a joy. You can hold it in one hand standing up and check your email real quick without sitting down or breaking an arm.
Yep. My 4.5 lb 2009 13" MacBook Pro was awkward because of both the weight and the size. Even the current 13" MBPs are a bit awkward.

The one and only real issue I have is the battery life, that's not great and paired with the fact that this is supposed to be a very mobile device it bugs me a bit. It charges super fast though, in a pinch you could probably just sit next to an outlet for a bit.
Agree. Battery life is way better than my old MBP, but still isn't as good as my iPad.

I'm currently doing an illustration class, so my workload is pretty much as high as it will get. I ran into my first problem with illustrator last week, when I was editing files with a lot of elements. I think that has to do with the fact that illustrator fills up the clipboard and only purges it when you shut down the application. Hence those files took forever to save.

- snip -

PS and even editing a bit in iMovie worked without a hitch.
Illustrator and Photoshop and iMovie, etc... Do you have enough RAM? I wonder if the clipboard or whatever had been paged to the drive.

One more thing, you can't charge and at the same time stream a video and surf the web, it will overheat.
I don't have this problem. Mind you most of the time when I have had it plugged in, it has been plugged into an iPad charger. So perhaps it has been heating up less because it is charging slower. I'll have to try again with the stock MB charger. Also, which model do you have? I have the m3. It's possible the i5 and/or i7 run hotter.

My MB specs:
2017 Core m3-7Y32, 1.2 GHz with 3.0 GHz Turbo
256 GB SSD
16 GB RAM
 

imagirlfriday

macrumors member
Sep 19, 2016
31
27
Illustrator and Photoshop and iMovie, etc... Do you have enough RAM? I wonder if the clipboard or whatever had been paged to the drive.

In anticipation of this, I got the biggest one they were selling:
1,4 GHz Dual‑Core Intel Core i7, 3,6 GHz turbo
16 GB RAM
512 GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics 615

I'm wondering if there is a way to have AI just keep only one thing in the clipboard...

I don't really understand anything about memory management, but my hard drive is only about half full.


Interesting, maybe I'll have to do another test with the streaming and charging thing, but it get's relatively hot when charging in general. Did you get an adapter or how are you plugging it into an iPad charger? But I can totally see the 'bigger' processor being the culprit. So if you don't need it for Adobe and want to be able to stream and surf and charge maybe get a smaller one.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
13,742
11,447
Interesting, maybe I'll have to do another test with the streaming and charging thing, but it get's relatively hot when charging in general. Did you get an adapter or how are you plugging it into an iPad charger? But I can totally see the 'bigger' processor being the culprit. So if you don't need it for Adobe and want to be able to stream and surf and charge maybe get a smaller one.
I just got a bunch of USB-A to USB-C cables. One end goes into the iPad charger and one end goes into the MacBook.

41i823ikQOL._SY355_.jpg


Not sure about the 2017 i7, but it should be noted that the 2016 m7 ran slower than the 2016 m5 under sustained load.

csm_cb15_schleife_macbooks_40e6d2367d.jpg


BTW, at least for the first 15 mins or so of heavy Cinebench R15 load, the 2017 m3 runs as fast as the 2016 m5.
 

imagirlfriday

macrumors member
Sep 19, 2016
31
27
I don't have this on my M5 2016 MB. This is not normal as streaming is not very CPU demanding

Just ran a test, and you're right it was fine, I even fired up PS and AI on top of the streaming - no issue, really weird, I wonder what was the problem when I got the overheating message.
 
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