Who actually is the 12" MacBook for?

[doitdada]

Pros need better specs? I guess the people who really need a quad core CPU on this forum is in the single digit percentile. Of course I can get any computer to lag and feel slow, but in most work flows a low power computer like the MacBook 12" will never bother the user. You may try to render video and play games on it, but why? A DIY Windows box will offer pure performance for a lower price any day of the week. That may work for people who are into video and 3D, and the occasional engineer who does hard work on it, but for most users the smallest offering from Apple is sufficient. I have had a great time using it for what it is intended for.

I have owned all the laptops models from Apple on the market right now, and the MacBook 12 is absolutely my favorite one and it is also the one I would recommend to people who ask me for advice on buying a new computer, though I may recommend bigger screen sizes for people with impaired vision. Yes, it is expensive, but it is also a great computer, so price is justified. I bought an 1.2ghz with 512GB for 899 dollars, so you could call that a bargain. I bought a non touch bar MacBook Pro 13 today, and the reason for it is the extra thunderbolt 3 port, so I can charge and connect it to a 4K screen at the same time. I would probably hold on to the 12" if it had an extra USB C port.

The 15" is the best choice for users without an external display, but if you own a monitor, the duality with a highly portable 13" is better as long as you don't work with video or 3D. For Photoshop and Lightroom the baseline 13" is sufficient. Hardcore hobbyists may argue for getting the absolute best, but I don't believe aggressive future proofing or evangelizing heavy specs is a sport worth pursuing. If you are a true Pro, your profession will give you the tools you need, but for an all-round Mac experience, I prefer the 12".

 

[Dave245]

People seem to be talking about Windows machines and how they are lower priced compared to the 12" MacBook or other Mac's and while i understand that point, for me personally i much prefer a Mac for a number of reasons, one being that MacOS is much better in my opinion and the hardware on a Mac is often second to none, for example i have owned my 2011 MacBook Pro for a while now (near on 6 years) and i haven't had a single problem with it (obviously it's now starting to age) over the years, I have not had to format the hard drive, worry about viruses (i don't use anti virus) had the system just randomly crash on me or any of the other mountain of issues i use to have with my Windows machine before going to the Mac, the same thing can be said for my 2012 iMac. Now i don't know why that is I'm not a very big tech or spec guy (maybe it's because Apple control both the hardware and the software?) but i do know that a Mac has been far superior for me over the last 6 years.

The 12" MacBook i don't think is meant to replace Pro laptops, i feel like they are meant for the average user who wants portability and a nice machine that runs MacOS. The 13" MacBook Pro is a very good looking Mac and the Touch Bar i think is a great addition that is in it's early stages and will get better the more developers make it useful in their apps. But for some people like myself it's a bit of a toss up between which one to get and that's why i started this thread in the first place, in order to read other people's opinions.

 

[ascender]

But a fanless Core M is much less able to do things than an i5 from the 13" MBP vs the slower clocked, but still i5 found in the Air.

Really? I just don't understand that logic at all. Unless you're doing tasks which are properly CPU-intensive, I bet the difference between them at most daily tasks of most users are utterly negligible and unnoticeable.

And if someone really is a Pro user doing a lot of xCode, or processing large music files or effects in final cut pro, they're not going to be buying either of those machines to do their main work from.

As quite a few people have said, raw specs have never been more meaningless than they are these days when it comes to what a machine can do for the majority of users.

iDiots doesn't even make sense by the way. iSheep is usually the favoured term used by people trolling others in articles about Apple, but either way its condescending at best and probably pretty ignorant to use it, especially on here where you'd probably be surprised by just what people are using these machines for in the real world.

 

[boltjames]

Let's face it, serious users need better specs. More so than the new MB Pros even.

Light users either don't spend the sort of money for the 12" MB and if they did - and they were informed consumers and not iDiots - they would go for the likes of a ThinkPad for half the price and twice the specs with a much more comfortable keyboard etc.

iDiot here. I run Windows 10 exclusively on my 12" MB, never used MacOS in my life nor do I intend to.

"Twice the specs" aren't necessary for an EVP who has a mahogany office, not a carpeted cubicle. "Half the price" isn't what successful executives aspire to achieve, they are willing to pay more for quality. Point being, you, like many others, fail to understand the reason for the RMB's existence. It is not supposed to be the "affordable computer for the everyman". It's a luxury. No different than a Rolex vs. a Casio. Casio can do a lot more at a fraction of the price, but it's not a Rolex, doesn't have that quality, doesn't have that experience.

My 12" MB sits in a drawer 250 days a year. I have a heavy, thick, and powerful Windows 10 machine in the office. I have a heavy, thick, and powerful Windows 10 machine at home. But when I travel to Europe, Asia, and domestically, when I am in a board room taking notes, when I am in business class at 30,000 feet, when I am in and out of the limo bouncing between meetings, I want the thinnest and lightest premium Windows 10 notebook on the planet and that notebook is the 12" MacBook.

The reason you don't understand this product is because it's not designed for you.

BJ

 

[turbineseaplane]

@doitdada

Great post!

I'd even go so far as wishing they'd make a 14 or 15" rMacBook.
So many use cases don't need oodles of horsepower, but would absolutely benefit from simply a larger screen.

I'd buy a 15" MacBook in a heartbeat - Would be a primary computer for 80-90% of what I do.

 

[0989383]

The MacBook certainly ain't what it used to be. Remember when it appealed to students and average buyers and was still a relatively luxurious experience

 

[boltjames]

The MacBook certainly ain't what it used to be. Remember when it appealed to students and average buyers and was still a relatively luxurious experience

No, I don't remember the past like that. Apple products have always been premium in design and premium in price.

I think what might be skewing your perception is that today you can buy a Windows machine for as little as $399 USD and MacBook's are still holding their own at prices above $1,600 USD. The price gap has gotten wider because cheap PC makers are flooding the market with cheap notebooks, not because Apple is being greedy.

BJ

 

[SolidGoat]

The MacBook certainly ain't what it used to be. Remember when it appealed to students and average buyers and was still a relatively luxurious experience

Ah, the good old days when apple made better general decisions.

No, I don't remember the past like that. Apple products have always been premium in design and premium in price.

Amnesia, perhaps? The base models priced around $1k have always been popular among students and average joes who appreciated the software experience. The current macbook is perfect for people who consistently need a light, all-day machine, but apple needs to either revamp the air or drop the unjustified price to fill the laptop's old niche.

Also, if you're seriously using your macbook to run windows, maybe it's not actually designed for you (since, you know, it's designed and optimized for OS X) and you should try something like a zenbook UX390 and enjoy better native hardware performance.

 

[fisherking]

Ah, the good old days when apple made better general decisions.



Amnesia, perhaps? The base models priced around $1k have always been popular among students and average joes who appreciated the software experience. The current macbook is perfect for people who consistently need a light, all-day machine, but apple needs to either revamp the air or drop the unjustified price to fill the laptop's old niche.

Also, if you're seriously using your macbook to run windows, maybe it's not actually designed for you (since, you know, it's designed and optimized for OS X) and you should try something like a zenbook UX390 and enjoy better native hardware performance.

none of that makes sense. if someone wants to run windows on their mac, they can. simple. and no harm done. and what wrong decisions is apple making these days? i've owned a lot of macs (since 1997) and the 12" macbook is my fave so far; that's saying a lot.

 

[SolidGoat]

none of that makes sense. if someone wants to run windows on their mac, they can. simple. and no harm done. and what wrong decisions is apple making these days? i've owned a lot of macs (since 1997) and the 12" macbook is my fave so far; that's saying a lot.

Obviously someone can run windows on their mac, my point was that it doesn't make much sense to pay a premium for the software (the main reason most people buy a mac) and then only run windows. As far as bad decisions, one is the price point for the hardware of the 12" macbook. It's my favorite so far too, but $1300 base for a tablet CPU is a bit unreasonable. It's also coupled with the other bad decision to not update at least one base model macbook (air, rMB, or anything) for $1k to appeal to more students and average consumers.

 

[turbineseaplane]

There are no other laptop lines that I'm aware of that have the fit and finish of the MacBooks (in this case the 12").

We shouldn't forget that the huge R&D costs, specialized tooling, etc are all things prices into premium prices. It's far more than just a high priced "tablet CPU". The whole package and process has to be considered.

 

[SolidGoat]

There are no other laptop lines that I'm aware of that have the fit and finish of the MacBooks (in this case the 12").

We shouldn't forget that the huge R&D costs, specialized tooling, etc are all things prices into premium prices. It's far more than just a high priced "tablet CPU". The whole package and process has to be considered.

The zenbook series match it in my opinion, but with a bit bigger screen. Apple's R&D cost has always been high, and they had previously always been able to have a base model at the $1k price point. There isn't really anything special or new about the case or internals except the battery, and updated battery tech has never directly jacked up a retail price before. As far as the "tablet CPU," it's exactly that- a low wattage tablet CPU.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The zenbook series match it in my opinion, but with a bit bigger screen. Apple's R&D cost has always been high, and they had previously always been able to have a base model at the $1k price point. There isn't really anything special or new about the case or internals except the battery, and updated battery tech has never directly jacked up a retail price before. As far as the "tablet CPU," it's exactly that- a low wattage tablet CPU.

How do you know the development costs for the new MacBooks and/or how they internally are deciding to amortize out the costs and also how those might relate to previous lines over time?

There are tons of unknowns here.

In any case. You don't like it or the price it sounds like.
Apparently it's just not a product for you.

Fair enough
Enjoy the Asus (is that what you use?)

 

[boltjames]

Amnesia, perhaps? The base models priced around $1k have always been popular among students and average joes who appreciated the software experience. The current macbook is perfect for people who consistently need a light, all-day machine, but apple needs to either revamp the air or drop the unjustified price to fill the laptop's old niche.

Also, if you're seriously using your macbook to run windows, maybe it's not actually designed for you (since, you know, it's designed and optimized for OS X) and you should try something like a zenbook UX390 and enjoy better native hardware performance.

As I said earlier, there was a time where a MacBook and a Windows notebook could compete on price and those days are long over. Apple has decided to compete on form factor, not price. They are not seeking the bottom of the market, they can't compete with a $399 Best Buy one day sale special. My wife and kids all want Mac's, not because of price but because they are used to the operating system. Since the Mac is the only notebook that runs MacOS, people will pay whatever they have to in order to get one. Gives Apple quite an advantage, market control over the OS equals market control over the hardware too.

As for me, I don't need better hardware performance. I have underlings in cubicles to crunch numbers for me, I have powerful Windows machines at work and at home when I attempt something taxing. My 12" MacBook sits in a drawer 250 days a year and works its magic when I am traveling the world and light weight is worth far more than processing horsepower. Dropbox keeps me in sync. Takes about 30 seconds on wi-fi to mirror my heavy, thick, machines I've thankfully left stateside.

As for my decision to run Windows 10 on my MacBook, it's what I use a work and what I am comfortable with. There is nothing un-optimized for Windows on my Mac, it does everything I want or need it to do. It has the best quality, form factor, and panache for my lifestyle. Zenbook? I don't even know what that is, I'll ask my 15 year old son, it's likely he does.

 

[0989383]

No, I don't remember the past like that. Apple products have always been premium in design and premium in price.

I think what might be skewing your perception is that today you can buy a Windows machine for as little as $399 USD and MacBook's are still holding their own at prices above $1,600 USD. The price gap has gotten wider because cheap PC makers are flooding the market with cheap notebooks, not because Apple is being greedy.

BJ

No, at one point the MacBook cost £649. The average non entry level Windows Laptop was £499. It was a small margin more to buy a white MacBook.

Now, the average Windows laptop is around the same. The MacBook is almost triple the price.

Apples price has rise about five times higher than inflation in the past decade so they HAVE put their prices up sharply.

 

[Dave245]

I think the thing is that people want Mac's because they know what they are getting, a great designed product that looks great but also a very reliable machine that "just works" and personally i ca back that up, as I've said in previous posts I've got a 2011 MacBook Pro and 27" 2012 iMac and both machines are still running better than any PC i ever owned before i made the jump to Mac's and thats even after both of them being 5-6 years old now.

When it comes to a Mac I'm willing to pay a higher premium to have that great design, a MacOS that is in my opinion a far better OS than Windows and a machine that has never let me down, rather than saving a few hundred £ and having a Windows machine that frustrated me and i didn't love using, i just used because i had to on a daily basis.
[doublepost=1492002972][/doublepost]can I ask someone with knowledge about specs, with the 13" MacBook Pro with Touch Bar is there much difference between the 2.9GHz, 3.1GHz and the 3.3GHz? I know that the first 2 are Core i5 and the 3.3GHz is a Core i7. Also is it better to max out Ram at 16GB or is 8GB Ram enough?

 

[serkan]

Pros need better specs? I guess the people who really need a quad core CPU on this forum is in the single digit percentile. Of course I can get any computer to lag and feel slow, but in most work flows a low power computer like the MacBook 12" will never bother the user. You may try to render video and play games on it, but why? A DIY Windows box will offer pure performance for a lower price any day of the week. That may work for people who are into video and 3D, and the occasional engineer who does hard work on it, but for most users the smallest offering from Apple is sufficient. I have had a great time using it for what it is intended for.

I have owned all the laptops models from Apple on the market right now, and the MacBook 12 is absolutely my favorite one and it is also the one I would recommend to people who ask me for advic on buying a new computer, though I may recommend bigger screen sizes for people with impaired vision. Yes, it is expensive, but it is also a great computer, so price is justified. I bought an 1.2ghz with 512GB for 899 dollars, so you could call that a bargain. I bought a a non touch bar MacBook Pro 13 today, and the reason for it is the extra thunderbolt 3 port, so I can charge and connect it to a 4K screen at the same time. I would probably hold on to the 12" if it had an extra USB C port.

The 15" is the best choice for users without an external display, but if you own a monitor, the duality with a highly portable 13" is better as long as you don't work with video or 3D. For Photoshop and Lightroom the baseline 13" is sufficient. Hardcore hobbyists may argue for getting the absolute best, but I don't believe aggressive future proofing or evangelizing heavy specs is a sport worth pursuing. If you are a true Pro, your profession will give you the tools you need, but for an all-round Mac experience, I prefer the 12".

Thank you for the good writing and explanation.

I have two questions that I would like to ask,

1) what year is your MB is ?
2) Where did you get that bargain price ?

 

[turbineseaplane]

I will admit, part of my pleasure with this machine is no doubt tied to me getting a 2016 1.2 512 model WITH extra AppleCare for $700 cash off Craigslist..

I'm a sucker for a great deal, especially on Mac hardware

 

[doitdada]

Thank you for the good writing and explanation.
I have two questions that I would like to ask,

Happy to help!

1) what year is your MB is ?
2015
2) Where did you get that bargain price ?
I bought it in August 2016 from DustinHome.no (Scandinavian online retailer). Never seen it for that price before or after.

 

[boltjames]

No, at one point the MacBook cost £649. The average non entry level Windows Laptop was £499. It was a small margin more to buy a white MacBook.

Now, the average Windows laptop is around the same. The MacBook is almost triple the price.

Apples price has rise about five times higher than inflation in the past decade so they HAVE put their prices up sharply.

Please, let's not get caught up in naming conventions. "MacBook" is a line of notebooks, not a single product. Nice try though.

When I bought my son his MacBook (white) it was $1000 and the cheapest Windows notebook was $700. Today's least expensive MacBook (Air) is still $1000 and the cheapest Windows notebook is $350. MacBook is the same price, Windows dropped in half. Apple is taking the high road, Windows clones are in the gutter.

Apple has not increased prices. They have held prices steady and simultaneously increased quality and innovation. If that disappoints some, that's good, they're not supposed to be common products for the masses. They are luxuries.

 

[serkan]

Happy to help!

1) what year is your MB is ?
2015
2) Where did you get that bargain price ?
I bought it in August 2016 from DustinHome.no (Scandinavian online retailer). Never seen it for that price before or after.

Now its ok. I was like, how can you get a price in U.S like that

If they dont update it this year, I am thinking of biting the bullet and buying the m7 processor one, rather than MBP

 

[SolidGoat]

As I said earlier, there was a time where a MacBook and a Windows notebook could compete on price and those days are long over. Apple has decided to compete on form factor, not price. They are not seeking the bottom of the market, they can't compete with a $399 Best Buy one day sale special. My wife and kids all want Mac's, not because of price but because they are used to the operating system. Since the Mac is the only notebook that runs MacOS, people will pay whatever they have to in order to get one. Gives Apple quite an advantage, market control over the OS equals market control over the hardware too.

As for me, I don't need better hardware performance. I have underlings in cubicles to crunch numbers for me, I have powerful Windows machines at work and at home when I attempt something taxing. My 12" MacBook sits in a drawer 250 days a year and works its magic when I am traveling the world and light weight is worth far more than processing horsepower. Dropbox keeps me in sync. Takes about 30 seconds on wi-fi to mirror my heavy, thick, machines I've thankfully left stateside.

As for my decision to run Windows 10 on my MacBook, it's what I use a work and what I am comfortable with. There is nothing un-optimized for Windows on my Mac, it does everything I want or need it to do. It has the best quality, form factor, and panache for my lifestyle. Zenbook? I don't even know what that is, I'll ask my 15 year old son, it's likely he does.

I pity your lack of knowledge on hardware and competing products. I too have layers of underlings to do heavy lifting, but being able to do so myself on the spot without a ridiculous software proxy is my gold standard. However, if you're content, that's all that matters.

Please, let's not get caught up in naming conventions. "MacBook" is a line of notebooks, not a single product. Nice try though.

When I bought my son his MacBook (white) it was $1000 and the cheapest Windows notebook was $700. Today's least expensive MacBook (Air) is still $1000 and the cheapest Windows notebook is $350. MacBook is the same price, Windows dropped in half. Apple is taking the high road, Windows clones are in the gutter.

Apple has not increased prices. They have held prices steady and simultaneously increased quality and innovation. If that disappoints some, that's good, they're not supposed to be common products for the masses. They are luxuries.

I disagree, there are more high-end models that can be seen as "luxuries," but they are usually targeted at professionals who need the hardware. Most apple products are targeted at middle class consumers and students who want software reliability and the experience. And the macbook is a line with generations that should either be consistent or diverge. Nice try, though.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@SolidGoat

Do you actually use a Mac?
Or are you on that Asus now?

 

[SolidGoat]

@SolidGoat

Do you actually use a Mac?
Or are you on that Asus now?

I bought the blue version of the UX390 a little while back. Although I did like the comparable quality, the software I need tends to run much better on OS X and I soon ditched it for the new macbook models. It's a great alternative that's more true to the macbook line's price and legacy than the actual macbook, sadly. Apple should take notes and do better. The Asus might still lying around somewhere, although I probably donated it. Laptops come and go more often than I'd like because new models are just so tempting. My concern for the direction of the macbook really just comes from nostalgia, since I fondly remember the days when I was an undergraduate and still using a base model macbook. It wasn't even that long ago, come to think of it.

 

[boltjames]

I pity your lack of knowledge on hardware and competing products. I too have layers of underlings to do heavy lifting, but being able to do so myself on the spot without a ridiculous software proxy is my gold standard. However, if you're content, that's all that matters.

I disagree, there are more high-end models that can be seen as "luxuries," but they are usually targeted at professionals who need the hardware. Most apple products are targeted at middle class consumers and students who want software reliability and the experience. And the macbook is a line with generations that should either be consistent or diverge. Nice try, though.

I am a Windows loyalist who finds the 12" MacBook to be the best Windows 10 hardware currently available for the traveling executive. Is it expensive? You bet. Does it trade off processing power for form factor? Absolutely. Is it a waste of money to have it in my desk drawer 250 days a year? Sure. Does that bother me? No. Not sure why this upsets you.

If I told you that I had multiple cars and one of them was a BMW convertible roadster that I only used on summer weekends you'd probably think that was a cool luxury. It is.

BJ