Phil Schiller hasn't confirmed that at all! In fact Apple hold a patent for the Touch Bar being included in an external keyboard for the iMac.
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Who actually is the 12" MacBook for?
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Phil Schiller hasn't confirmed that at all! In fact Apple hold a patent for the Touch Bar being included in an external keyboard for the iMac.
I may have read too much or too little on that peculiar subject, but I am not a fan, and would consider to move to Windows 10 and Project Neon if that happened. No force touch, no feedback, just a very sensitive screen who eats up battery time and requires me to move my eyes from the main screen. I have tried it and hate it. Of course they hold a patent, they believed this $h1t to have value for their premium customers. It's not that Apple is loosing it, I just think they are no longer selling products outside of the consumer demographic. The only exception is Pro YouTubers using FCPX, which may find the touch bar great for scrolling through footage.
Project Neon from Microsoft looks promising
https://www.onmsft.com/news/design-follows-creativity-in-windows-10s-next-update-with-project-neon
Some notes regarding the new Mac Pro
http://www.osnews.com/story/29755/Some_notes_regarding_the_new_Mac_Pro
"My immediate reaction to the idea was that this would prove impractical, due to battery life. The current Magic Keyboard typically goes 2-3 weeks for me between charges. Adding a display that is designed to be always-on would seem likely to slash that life dramatically."
and
"Latency is another possible issue raised by my colleague Benjamin, who wondered about frame-rates when the graphics data has to be sent wirelessly."
from
https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/magic-keyboard-with-touch-bar-concept/
Polls are positive though.
The fact that they are open about having no idea about how the market works and now are trying to meet Pro users with this interview, makes me doubt their ability to innovate their own ass. Both Hair Force One and Schiller needs to step down. Get some new blood in.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/06/t...-john-ternus-on-the-state-of-apples-pro-macs/
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Anyone use their Macbooks with VM's ?
Not that I plan to run VMWare or BootCamp on a daily basis but curious how they perform on vm's ?
Not that I plan to run VMWare or BootCamp on a daily basis but curious how they perform on vm's ?
I may have read too much or too little on that peculiar subject, but I am not a fan, and would consider to move to Windows 10 and Project Neon if that happened. No force touch, no feedback, just a very sensitive screen who eats up battery time and requires me to move my eyes from the main screen. I have tried it and hate it. Of course they hold a patent, they believed this $h1t to have value for their premium customers. It's not that Apple is loosing it, I just think they are no longer selling products outside of the consumer demographic. The only exception is Pro YouTubers using FCPX, which may find the touch bar great for scrolling through footage.
Project Neon from Microsoft looks promising
https://www.onmsft.com/news/design-follows-creativity-in-windows-10s-next-update-with-project-neon
Some notes regarding the new Mac Pro
http://www.osnews.com/story/29755/Some_notes_regarding_the_new_Mac_Pro
"My immediate reaction to the idea was that this would prove impractical, due to battery life. The current Magic Keyboard typically goes 2-3 weeks for me between charges. Adding a display that is designed to be always-on would seem likely to slash that life dramatically."
and
"Latency is another possible issue raised by my colleague Benjamin, who wondered about frame-rates when the graphics data has to be sent wirelessly."
from
https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/magic-keyboard-with-touch-bar-concept/
Polls are positive though.
The fact that they are open about having no idea about how the market works and now are trying to meet Pro users with this interview, makes me doubt their ability to innovate their own ass. Both Hair Force One and Schiller needs to step down. Get some new blood in.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/06/t...-john-ternus-on-the-state-of-apples-pro-macs/
You may of misread because during that interview Phil and the other Apple people in the room were asked about touch screen Mac's (yet again) and they answered no. I dissagree with you about the Touch Bar I've tried a 13" MacBook Pro with Touch Bar and it was a great experience, I think it is much better than touch screen computers. Also you've quoted someone who said the Touch Bar is designed to be always on when that's not true, the Touch Bar display turns off after about 70 seconds of inactive use.
I think you may of been right with the poll tho because I've seen a lot of people who say they like the Touch Bar and find it useful, those people different from the people on the forums tho because I don't think we represent the overall majority of people who buy and use Apple products. Phil Schiller himself said that the new MacBook Pro sales were high with a 20 percent increase in year over year sales so far.
Again I have to disagree with your comments about Phil and Craig need to leave Apple, yes mistakes have been made with the Pro market specifically the Mac Pro but they have apologised about it and are working on fixing it people need to give them time, we all make mistakes after all.
Have you just tried it in store or at a friends house? Because I liked it in the store, I have had both the 13" and the 15". I returned all of them due to hardware errors when disconnecting from external display. One even had a bent chassis. Another displayed white tint on the screen from time to time. I asked the sales rep at my Apple dealer, and he confirmed that those were issues other buyers had experienced as well.
At first the touch bar was fun and felt intuitive, but further down the road, like after a week or two, I realised that I never took it with me into productivity, it never made my work easier, even though the software I used supported the touch bar. I guess I wanted it because it was new, but it never got habitual.
I feel the new approach at Microsoft with new ways of doing things are working good, and that is due to new people with more fitting ideas getting their voice heard. Phil and Craig may have been crucial up to certain point, and experience will make you a good judge, but young people have contemporary ideas that would benefit Apple and it's consumers. My main reason for saying this is that I have a problem buying Apple products at the moment, and I don't switch to Microsoft at the moment due to software preferences and having to buy new licenses. I feel that Apple are releasing a lot of fun ideas into the market, but great fundamentals may have been overlooked for a while.
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I tried it at a friends who was good enough to let me use it over the course of a full day, i wanted more than an Apple Store experience, I wanted to try for myself and hear a friends experience.
Personally i really like the new keyboard (i didn't think i would) when i tried it it felt very weird at first with less travel but was very accurate when tapping on the keys, in fact i found it a lot more accurate than on my 2011 MacBook Pro and the 2012 iMac i have at home, which for me as a writer is very important because the more accurate i can type the faster and more productive i can be with getting words down on the page.
The display is just brilliant even compared to my 2012 iMac (which is 27" and still the 2016 MacBook Pro has a better screen). The Touch Bar i wasn't sure about but after using it in Pages, Final Cut X and a number of different apps i found to be helpful and so intuitive to use, now that might seem like i'm being a bit of a fan boy (and maybe i am) but when i came home and started using my 2011 MacBook Pro i was looking for the touch bar (at first) and it felt very weird and almost awkward to go back not just because of the Touch Bar but the keyboard as well and the display. My friend loves the new MacBook Pro with Touch Bar and says that editing in Final Cut X has been made a lot easier for him, i'm not an editor professionally altho i have edited small videos in the past so i don't know enough compared to someone like my friend who edits for a living.
That's just my personal experience and i'm not saying you are wrong, obviously your experience might differ from mine and i wouldn't call anyones personal experience wrong or any less valid than my own.
Another point that i feel is that Apple did a great job putting all the technology into a small and light machine that looks great.
I do think Phil and Craig have a place at Apple so i can't agree that they should go. I stick with Mac's and Apple products because i have had nothing but positive experiences so far! and i feel their software MacOS is fantastic. Again these are my own opinions and i don't expect everyone to agree.
Side note here: even tho i have had a great experience i'm still undecided if i should get the new MacBook Pro or not, i think i'm going to wait and see what happens in the coming months.
So you're still waiting for Cannon Lake?
In FCPX you don't type much. You move stuff around, and for that I could really learn to love the Touch Bar. Final Cut Pro and Logic is the last pro applications from Apple, but does it make sense to dedicate a $2500+ machine for those two apps? Bundling a dedicated touch pad with a screen would be better solution, and open the usage for a wider audience right from the start.
I agree on many of your positive views on the new machine, and I can follow your observation that the display was great. The screen has a dense colour depth. The speakers were amazing for their size and on medium the volume only had a slight of distortion. The keyboard is better, and the butterfly mechanism feels more mature than on the MacBook 12. The operation temperature was better and the noise level from the fans were better than the 2015 with dGPU. Returned one as well of those in late 2015 because of constant fan noise when plugged into an external monitor.
Most of my issues surface when I'm typing. For text, coding, research, spreadsheets and light Photoshop I don't see the TB emerge as a time saver. My history of mishaps with the touch bar in those use cases has reset my workflow more often than not. I liked it as an experiment for the first week or two, then I started to use the computer in production and the accidental hit here and there just made me more concerned about not hitting the touch bar than actual using it or ever worse, taking the focus of my work. I feel that many in the same field as me share similar experiences. I feel the idea about hooking up an iPad to scroll through footage and use as a touch bar when connected to a Mac is a better and more universal idea. If you have the Pro, you can also use the pen for more delicate operations.
My struggle is that at the moment I am just using Apple hardware from 2015. I really can't pull the trigger and buy something from their lineup at the moment. The Mac Pro is the only updated computer if you eliminate the MacBook Pro from the lineup, and that is just a spec bump on a design that is getting trashed at the moment we speak. It is hard to choose, and for each month Apple gives me and other potential buyers the time to look for alternatives, it becomes easier to go for Hackintosh with a 1080 GTX TI, since it is the only powerful graphic solution for macOS today, with Nvidia releasing Pascal drivers this month. It is at least more interesting than just standing around waiting for the signal light in the buyers guide to go green.
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So you're still waiting for Cannon Lake?
In FCPX you don't type much. You move stuff around, and for that I could really learn to love the Touch Bar. Final Cut Pro and Logic is the last pro applications from Apple, but does it make sense to dedicate a $2500+ machine for those two apps? Bundling a dedicated touch pad with a screen would be better solution, and open the usage for a wider audience right from the start.
I agree on many of your positive views on the new machine, and I can follow your observation that the display was great. The screen has a dense colour depth. The speakers were amazing for their size and on medium the volume only had a slight of distortion. The keyboard is better, and the butterfly mechanism feels more mature than on the MacBook 12. The operation temperature was better and the noise level from the fans were better than the 2015 with dGPU. Returned one as well of those in late 2015 because of constant fan noise when plugged into an external monitor.
Most of my issues surface when I'm typing. For text, coding, research, spreadsheets and light Photoshop I don't see the TB emerge as a time saver. My history of mishaps with the touch bar in those use cases has reset my workflow more often than not. I liked it as an experiment for the first week or two, then I started to use the computer in production and the accidental hit here and there just made me more concerned about not hitting the touch bar than actual using it or ever worse, taking the focus of my work. I feel that many in the same field as me share similar experiences. I feel the idea about hooking up an iPad to scroll through footage and use as a touch bar when connected to a Mac is a better and more universal idea. If you have the Pro, you can also use the pen for more delicate operations.
My struggle is that at the moment I am just using Apple hardware from 2015. I really can't pull the trigger and buy something from their lineup at the moment. The Mac Pro is the only updated computer if you eliminate the MacBook Pro from the lineup, and that is just a spec bump on a design that is getting trashed at the moment we speak. It is hard to choose, and for each month Apple gives me and other potential buyers the time to look for alternatives, it becomes easier to go for Hackintosh with a 1080 GTX TI, since it is the only powerful graphic solution for macOS today, with Nvidia releasing Pascal drivers this month. It is at least more interesting than just standing around waiting for the signal light in the buyers guide to go green.
I'm not waiting for Cannon Lake, it's more waiting to see if they update them early this year or drop the price. Since my 2011 MacBook Pro still works it's not like I'm in a big rush, hence why I'm taking my time to decide between the 12" MacBook and the 13" MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, it's the reason I started this thread to see other people's opinions and experiences with the 12" MacBook.
There isn't any typing in Final Cut that much I do know, my friend really likes the Touch Bar for using in Final Cut X as I said because he edits using that software. my experience with the Touch Bar was a good one, even when using Pages it let me open documents, suggested words, format options and so on so I don't think it's just reserved for 2 Apple apps over time it will probably be baked into other apps by developers. Personally I hope they don't remove the Touch Bar from future models but that's just my opinion. I think Apple will implement the Touch Bar further but we will have to see what happens at WWDC and if it's mentioned in the new MacOS update.
Prices have actually dropped around 20% on the MBP 15" 2016 here in Norway, so the price drop is happening. Still didn't keep the machine. I would hold out for an updated MacBook 12", it's lighter than the 13" Pro and feels more stable than the current lineup of Pros. If they want to keep the Touch Bar, let it at least get force touch, so you can register if the virtual buttons are pushed and the whole accidental button pushing would be history. It is simply too sensitive and prone to error in it's current form. If the 2017 model gets force touch, it would make the 2016 model loose a lot of value if you have ambitions of selling it for an upgrade later on.
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Unless you really want or need the latest hardware spec, there's still quite a few models to choose from at the moment which will be more than powerful enough for most people.
I get the point of buyer's guides and the simple traffic light system, but lots of those examples above need a number of asterisks surely? And why would the brand new MBP be a neutral? Its what, 6 months old?
I get the point of buyer's guides and the simple traffic light system, but lots of those examples above need a number of asterisks surely? And why would the brand new MBP be a neutral? Its what, 6 months old?
The problem is that Apple doesn't usually discount their prices on old tech... For someone who wants to buy a new computer from Apple directly rather than used, refurb, or third party vendor.... they are paying full price for something that is already a year old... it's the principal behind it that would bother me, If I am going to pay full price I want the latest tech no matter how minor of a bump it is.
Let's face it, serious users need better specs. More so than the new MB Pros even.
Light users either don't spend the sort of money for the 12" MB and if they did - and they were informed consumers and not iDiots - they would go for the likes of a ThinkPad for half the price and twice the specs with a much more comfortable keyboard etc.
Light users either don't spend the sort of money for the 12" MB and if they did - and they were informed consumers and not iDiots - they would go for the likes of a ThinkPad for half the price and twice the specs with a much more comfortable keyboard etc.
I suspect a lot of "serious" users may want better specs rather than needing them. Its probably a very small percentage of total Mac users who need anything more powerful than what they could buy today.
There's always going to be a cheaper, more powerful alternative out there if you start looking at offerings from PC manufacturers and opinions about keyboards are just subjective.
Apple's stance on not lowering prices is a strange one - basically up until (is it 14 or 30 days?) before a new model is launched and you can return it, you're paying top dollar for a machine which has been around for however many years. Some PC manufacturers obviously drop the price on machines as they and their specs age.
iDiots is a bit harsh, also your suggesting that people who buy the 12" MacBook are not informed? Going for the likes of a ThinkPad is not an option when you don't like or don't use Windows machines.
I'm just looking at the sort of people in real life I know who do own them. They know nothing about specs etc. They assume that £1,000+ and designer class styling makes their machine - and subsequently them as human beings - superior in every way from the rest. Those are the iDiots.
In my situation I love the Mac and Apples hardware but their pricing at the minute is more out of touch than it's ever been.
You know as a student I can stretch to £1,000 for a laptop. Since it's something I use so much and enjoy I'd be willing to spend that. And we've always had the choice of an Air and formerly decent white MacBooks for under 1k. Now the 2010 Air is our option with out of date processors. No thanks. The new MB is £1250 and for that we're getting a computer that's inferior to the Air - just thinner. And essentially an Intel Atom level processor.. at least the Air and MacBook Whites always had mid range and acceptable processors.
The Pro , previously we could spend £900 on the 13" Pro or step up to just over £1,000 for the latest Retina 13". That model alone, despite now being last gen jumped up hundreds. That's a sheer insult to us Apple fans. And yes, we ARE iDiots to support it by parting with out cash for it.
I can't afford a new Mac now, because £1,000 gets you j*ck sh*t. Though the Air's screen is fine for today, e next 3 years of use it'll become painfully outdated and using this expensive machine will be a chore not a joy.
Even if I could afford to wait and save, I don't think I'd be an intelligent example of a human to buy the new MB as it stands. As pretty as it is. Or the new MB Pro. Because despite almost fifty percent more than before for the base model and I STILL have to shell out HUNDREDS more for the signature feature. The touch bar.
Goodbye Apple. Hello again Windows. Inferior OS, but now it and its hardware options like the ThinkPad become a wiser choice because as a Mac user I expect reasonably capable machines and well built hardware. Only PCs can offer that now as far as I'm concerned for under one and a half thousand.
Personally I just couldn't bring myself to leave the Apple ecosystem and certainly not leave a from a Mac, I've had my 2011 MacBook Pro for nearly 6 years and it has been a great machine, I also have a 2012 iMac which is also a great machine and I've had no issues with either! Going back to a world where I had constant issues with Windows machines is just a no no for me personally, i much prefer a Mac and what a Mac has to offer, however I do agree on prices at the moment for the MacBook Pro are high but they are likely to drop this year as they usually do after an update (Apple typically drops prices the following year after a big update). As for the MacBook 12" that may also get a price drop eventually, but with regards to its specs it's not meant to be the highest spec machine out there I think it's main feature is portability.
I get what you're saying and I'm not trying to be a troll or argumentative. But come on, the MacBook Air 11" and 13" are quite portable. I don't think anybody ever experienced bulk or strife when using them out and about. I experienced it with my 13" Pro yeah because of the weight. But I don't feel the minor improvements portability with the new MB justify the price and compromises it brings.
My only way to own a Mac now is a Mac mini and desktop setup. Something I've never really considered because I guess I feel the need for a laptop machine.
I can't be the only consumer Apple are losing over this. I'll be ordering my next laptop in the next month. Once I do, that's me for a few years. Regardless of what Apple does down the line. I will miss OSX but it's the principle
I understand that which is why I think Apple still offer the 13" MacBook Air, the MacBook 12" is more of a next generation I think, extremely light small and thin. People want the retina screen that's in the 12" MacBook and was one of the complaints about the Air.
If the Air had at least a 1920x1080 option it'd be fine. And since it's getting on a bit, being priced at £700-£800 for the 13" would have it positioned much more suitably IMO. I'd actually buy one at that price. And it'd sure pull a lot of these mid range Ultrabook PC shoppers into the Apple ecosystem too.
I don't even think I'd buy a MB at half the price let alone what it's priced at now. Even for my basic needs I couldn't see a Core M processor keeping up when the going gets occasionally tough.
Maybe Apple will wise up. But by then I'll be long gone in the other direction.
ThinkPad hardware and quality with Ubuntu reliability and Mac like interfaces is looking much more attractive.
Maybe, but even on the second hand market Apple's products hold their value. Also, their products (especially iPads and MBP's) tend to be an incremental improvement on the previous model rather than a whole new thing so it does make some sense.
Doesn't anybody else agree that the current MacBook Air design with a Retina display and latest gen processors at around the current price would be a great choice for the average consumer. So long as it could maintain its battery life. Does anybody hate having a fan That much?
Yea the MacBook 12" is expensive but overtime it will probably come down in price, that's what usually happens.
I'd prefer this to an underpowered GPU / CPU. Even without the retina, if a 2016 MBA 11" was released I wouldn't be in this forum.
What a very limited and inexperienced view of the world of work and of people in general. The laptop is my primary tool for making my living and managing 200+ faculty and staff. If I am going to use something for 10 hours per day I want it to be something I enjoy being on from both a hardware and software perspective. Mechanics can pay $10,000 for the right tools, so paying $1,500 for a laptop seems like a bargain.
Specs are also not necessarily equal to performance. Those numbers are more meaningless today than they have ever been.
I know it's not about specs or on paper. That's long been a failed argument by PC fan Apple haters. I get that.
But a fanless Core M is much less able to do things than an i5 from the 13" MBP vs the slower clocked, but still i5 found in the Air.