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Who else dislikes paypal?

mgartner0622

mgartner0622

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 6, 2010
1,018
0
Colorado, USA
So, I have a story for everyone, even though I know the internet is full of them.

Long story short, I sold an iPhone about two weeks ago on ebay, the stock AT&T model iPhone 4 running iOS 5. I even wrote that it was an AT&T iPhone.
The buyer bought it and messaged me, saying he was unable to activate the phone with T-Mobile. I told him that it was clearly listed as an AT&T iPhone on the listing, and as such I could not be responsible for how he used it, especially since he was trying to use a carrier that was not AT&T.
After two days with no response, he opened a paypal case, stating the item had shipping damages. I then escalated this to the eBay customer support, and even provided them with a copy of an eBay message from the buyer stating he was happy with the phone and it came better than he expected, however he was just unable to activate the phone with T-Mobile.
Within 10 hours, ebay decided in the buyer's favor. I still can not see how they did this, considering I shipped with them, provided tracking and shipping insurance, and communicated back and fourth with the buyer about four times, not to mention the listing was very clear, I even bolding the text in the listing saying this iPhone was for AT&T only.
/end rant/

Well, what do you think? Is this a commonplace occurrence? Googling it, it seems so, however has anyone in the MacRumors community experienced something similar?
 
Crap like this is exactly why I stopped using Paypal and eBay years ago. It's frustrating because there have been times when I want to buy something (like the Marketplace here) or make a donation, but Paypal is the only payment method accepted. It's sad that there aren't other viable options.
 
I don't mind paypal for transactions using the marketplace and being able to select the buyer and work out terms between us but I always second guess myself with eBay and usually sleep on an item for a night or two before I bid. They're becoming so lopsided I have to convince myself that the potential savings will be worth the possible headache if/when something goes wrong. These days I try as hard as possible to avoid ebay since you can generally find a price that's within a few dollars around the web anyways and I'll buy from a reputable retailer way before an idiot looking to scam on ebay.
 
This is exactly why I won't sell on ebay anymore. It used to all be fine. Sell something, get paid via paypal, ship the item, everybody's happy. Now there's just too much red tape. I will use ebay and paypal every once in a while for purchasing things I can't find on Amazon and that's it. Last time I sold something on ebay paypal held my money for three weeks before I could even begin the transfer to my bank account. Pretty ridiculous when the money used to show up in my paypal account instantly. Amazon ftw
 
Your gripe is specifically with eBay and not PayPal. I know PP is essentially a subsidiary of eBay, but it was eBay who ruled against you, not PayPal.

"Within 10 hours, ebay decided in the buyer's favor. "

I do a great deal of my online shopping using PayPal and my wife gets paid for her online work and products through PayPal and we haven't had issues. In fact, I think PayPal is a Godsend to help avoid potential issues. We gladly pay the small transaction fee for peace of mind of not having our CC details stolen by disreputable companies.

So to answer your thread's title question: "Not I."
 
PayPal And EBay

Are the pits....I gave them up years ago, in favour of good old personal contact, and something called Gumtree here in the Uk.

It's free to list, and local so the buyer collects.
 
Your story is more an issue with eBay and not necessarily PayPal, even though eBay owns PayPal.

It's quite clear the idiot buyer of yours had no idea what they were doing and, upon realizing their error, tried to worm their way out as easily as possible. Nearly all of my PayPal transactions, both from eBay and other purchases, have been headache free. There was one issue where I bought from someone and they totally misrepresented the item I bought.

eBay/PayPal is more for buyers, not sellers. They'll always side with the buyer in order to "make them feel more secure buying online". Nearly every instance I've heard of situations like yours, eBay/PayPal sided with the buyer everytime. It sucks, yes, but that's how things are in that respect.

Seems odd that eBay/PayPal are chasing away sellers with their practices but, what can you do?
 
A problem with eBay is a problem with Paypal. Since eBay owns them, they can freeze funds in your Paypal account, take money out, etc. As the OP pointed out, the buyer decides to rip you off and files a complaint with eBay. They find in the buyer's favor, freeze/take out money from your Paypal account, and now the seller is out of the item and the money.
 
I realize it is eBay that decided in the buyer's favor, however it was PayPal as well. The email I got from them had both their names on it. The problem with these companies is that they ALWAYS appear to decide in the buyer's favor. And plus, we don't even know who has the authority to decide the outcome of these cases, it just seems like they always click the "side with buyer" button so buyers feel safe. I feel like this is a good business practice, until you turn around and become the seller, and are offered no protection against rogue buyers. What I'm saying basically is that in my opinion, PayPal, or whatever service you're using should use legally trained mediators to decide the "right" outcome of a case and prevent this issue. (Or maybe they do and I just don't know) Of course you can't please everyone, however the outcome of many cases would probably be different.
I'm just irritated in this case, because obviously I as a seller should not be liable for a uninformed buyer's bad decision. Additionally, many of the buyers on ebay automatically resort to the paypal system to fight for them, without even contacting the seller first. I have had this happen once before (300+ feedback).
All I can say is, what happened to the eBay of five or six years ago? Is it their goal to alienate sellers? Without sellers, eBay would not exist, so I am confused as to how they think they can consistently side with buyers, and continually lose sellers. (Just as they lost me; once this fiasco is over, I am closing my account for good.)


Honestly, I'm so fed up at this point I'm debating creating my own payment service. I know HTML and Javascript and have previously designed websites for businesses, so that's not a problem. The only problem I can see with this is I don't know how to convince people to trust the site, nor convince people to use it, although it seems that comes in time.
 
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mgartner0622 said:
Honestly, I'm so fed up at this point I'm debating creating my own payment service. I know HTML and Javascript and have previously designed websites for businesses, so that's not a problem. The only problem I can see with this is I don't know how to convince people to trust the site, although it seems that comes in time.
Click to expand...

eBay and PayPal blow, but you're going to need a hell of a lot more than HTML and Javascript (just on the technical side of things) to start a payment service
 
yg17 said:
eBay and PayPal blow, but you're going to need a hell of a lot more than HTML and Javascript (just on the technical side of things) to start a payment service
Click to expand...

I realize that, I meant just getting the webpage up and running. This is quite a bit more than a one person job...I don't think there is any way that I could accomplish it alone. It would also require a server for web hosting, as using an out of house hosting service would not be a good idea. Then there's the encryption, ect. The list goes on and on. No wonder why PayPal is the only payment service around!

Realistically, the only company I can see taking down PayPal and eBay is Google.
 
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I remember reading that American Express was getting into the person to person/micropayment business, but I haven't seen much on it lately. Also, Amazon has Amazon payments, but I have only seen it on retail sites. I don't know if an individual can sign up for it.

I have a savings and checking account with ING Direct. They have a feature called PtP payments. You can send money to individuals directly, but they catch is they have to give you the last 4 digits of their account. They then have to click on a link and confirm their info. It works for people you know, but it doesn't work for sending money to strangers.
 
Buyer = paypal is amazing
Seller = paypal sucks

Scenario: you sell a late 2011 17" MBP for @2400, buyer receives and state the box was filled with rocks and files a dispute. Who do you think will win? Who just got a free MBP and who is now out of a MBP? I will never sell anything on ebay anymore. Got burned a few times. Craigslist is the way to go.
 
rainking said:
Buyer = paypal is amazing
Seller = paypal sucks

Scenario: you sell a late 2011 17" MBP for @2400, buyer receives and state the box was filled with rocks and files a dispute. Who do you think will win? Who just got a free MBP and who is now out of a MBP? I will never sell anything on ebay anymore. Got burned a few times. Craigslist is the way to go.
Click to expand...

See, this is exactly why there needs to be an alternative for Paypal.
Who is to say I can't go on eBay and buy a high end MBP and claim the box was filled with rocks? The temptation for people to do this because they know they can get away with this, even though it is not morally right, is really high.
But then again, it appears some eBay buyers don't have morals to begin with. :rolleyes:
Since about 2006, the eBay population that is actually nice, thoughtful, and cares about customer service seems to have been declining. This is probably due to a combination of PayPal, increased fees, and a loss of rights for sellers. When ebay stopped allowing sellers to leave negatives that really made me angry... some buyers deserve negative feedback, just as some sellers do.
 
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And Ebay/Paypal don't really give a crap about you. They have enough China/Hong Kong sellers selling items for 0.99 cents shipped.

It works for sellers that are selling massive amounts of items at a very cheap price. 1. Buyers are not tempted to open a dispute since there is now real gains and 2. even if there was, the amount is small enough to just eat it.

----------

Oh and a seller can't leave a negative feedback to a buyer.
 
I like Paypal for what it is, but not eBay. That's why I like to stick to the Macrumors marketplace or not sell it at all. I have a semibroken 3GS which I might put on eBay. If I state it's broken, I shouldn't have any problems ... I hope.
 
wordoflife said:
I like Paypal for what it is, but not eBay. That's why I like to stick to the Macrumors marketplace or not sell it at all. I have a semibroken 3GS which I might put on eBay. If I state it's broken, I shouldn't have any problems ... I hope.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I stated in large font that the iPhone I was selling was for AT&T only, but PayPal/eBay still let the buyer return it because he wanted to use it for T-Mobile. I can see this happening where a buyer claims it is damaged.
 
mgartner0622 said:
I don't know. I stated in large font that the iPhone I was selling was for AT&T only, but PayPal/eBay still let the buyer return it because he wanted to use it for T-Mobile. I can see this happening where a buyer claims it is damaged.
Click to expand...

Did the buyer have a lot of (good) feedback?
 
yg17 said:
Are they at least requiring him to send the phone back to you before refunding his money?
Click to expand...

Supposedly... the money is apparently on hold until he gives them a tracking number that proves delivery. Although, technically I could get a bag of rocks back. Who knows?
 
I've stopped selling things online completely because of scammers and this sort of thing. I haven't used ebay to sell anything major since I got ripped off for an $1800 computer. I only use it to buy, period.

I thought the amazon marketplace would be better, but its actually worse in my opinion. I've sold three things on there - and twice, the buyer used the A-to-Z guarantee to fraudulently place a claim and receive a full refund while also keeping the item. Two out of three. I've sold many things on here and elsewhere and never had a single problem. Yet when it involves people who can scam the system and steal from you, it's headaches galore. It's robbery and I got tired of dealing with it. No matter how much evidence you have, it doesn't seem to matter.

I'd rather use craigslist or the marketplace here and on another forum I'm on than just give my stuff away to people that lie, cheat, and steal. Amazon and eBay are like a safe haven for thieves. Sorry that happened to you. I know when it happens it is infuriating, but it's useless to let it bother you for too long. Use it as a lesson and stay away from eBay selling.
 
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