Huntn
macrumors Penryn
Windows 10 for gaming, thumbs up. MacOS for anything serious.
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Who has considered switching to windows?
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kazmac
macrumors G4
Aw, thank you. Job interviews are finally happening, so I think that will change in the next few weeks. 🙂
BarracksSi
Suspended
Same here, although in my case, my new job dictated that I use a Win10 laptop (plus, I can telework three days a week, so now I have a Win10 machine "at home" on those days).
I've had a little over a year with it now, and I still absolutely hate it.
They also gave me a laptop for software development, and we cut out the Windows to install Ubuntu. Sooooo much better, almost reminds me of macOS. But, Ubuntu's window management is clunky (better than Windows, but still nowhere as usable as Mac), I can't find a Mac-like way to manage the display's color calibration, and it's still not as user-friendly once you get past changing the basic system settings. However, I like it enough that if I ended up with a Wintel laptop of my own, unless I required Windows for any reason, I'd wipe it and run Linux instead -- Ubuntu, or Elementary, or whatever.
What do I dislike about Win10? I think it's because everything is more difficult. Changing the display color is harder, typing special characters is harder (if it's possible), using Outlook is more complicated (do I really have to create a new email message just to change my signature?), there are three different control panels for managing the trackpad (wtf)...
I don't have admin access on the Win10 laptop to try doing cool shell commands and most CLI things, so I can't say what that would be like. But what I'm learning doesn't give me any warm fuzzies.
A friend of mine in info security switched over to Mac OS X for his main machine years ago (right when the PB G4 came out, which was his first Mac, AFAIK). I asked why, and he said that besides the "it just works" stuff, it included all these cool technologies out-of-the-box that he was already using.
[doublepost=1509982387][/doublepost]
Did you have the same thought when you bought your 2012 MBP as me -- that the newer Macs from then forward wouldn't be as user-upgradeable so it'd be best to jump on the last of the old generation when possible?
I got my mid-2012 after the Retina MBPs were announced because I didn't see any other way to get 1TB of onboard storage at a good price, and with the idea of eventually replacing its optical drive with an SSD once I got done with ripping CDs and DVDs. Five years on, and I still think I made the right decision. I haven't swapped to an SSD yet, but I may do so in the next few months (or at least after I go through my CD collection and import any missing ones into iTunes).
staggerlee41
macrumors 65816
Yes, we shared the same thoughts about going for the 2012 MBP at time of purchase. I have to agree with you, I too feel like I made a GREAT decision for many reasons when I purchased it. When you get the SSD, it will feel like a completely different computer. Great investment. My experiences with this MBP lead me to conclude it has been one of the very best computers I've ever owned. Certainly one of the longest lasting and best performing devices I've owned. If something else breaks in it, I'll at the very least investigate the options with Apple before purchasing another. The memory was what I upgraded first, then the SSD. Still works as good if not better than the day I purchased, so when it's time to retire this one, I think it will be the best computer I've ever purchased.
By comparison, the other computer I owned that I still regard as one of the best was a Dell Inspiron Laptop circa 2000. That computer worked well for 5 years, and really showed it's age from years 5-7. When I bought it, I went all out and bought the best hardware I could get in it.
The current user experience 5 years into this Mac vs. 5 years into usage with the Dell I mentioned are night and day. By this time with the Dell/Windows, I knew I had to start thinking of upgrading. Performance was not what it once was. With this MBP, I know it will be inevitable, but this computer works incredibly well and is not showing any signs of slowing down.
BarracksSi
Suspended
LizKat
macrumors 604
Yah, well then for me the future stopped somewhere around Windows 3.1. I did like how that ran on some Toshiba laptop I had at the time. But I also had a Powerbook 170 sometime around then and the active matrix display on that proved useful enough so eventually the Toshiba became a doorstop, along with its OS.
Fast forwarding as an Apple gear fan ever since then: now a mid-2012 MBP is my set of trusty brakes on the rush to the whole trust me you don't need any ports or any peripherals just park everything in the cloud and drive this exciting laptop that weighs 2 ounces and rolls up like a broadsheet newspaper. No sale.. yet. I'd like to see the rollup though. 🙂
Wake me up when they bring some serious broadband to the hinterlands. In the meantime I bought an extra mid-2012 MBP as an Apple refurb in 2016 and put AppleCare on it... so I'm good until 2019. By then maybe Frontier will annoy me so much I'll finally sign up with what used to be Time Warner Cable until it became Spectrum and started mailbombing me once a week to convert to state of the art (!) broadband. Around here whenever they do one of those promotions and it actually gets some takers, I hear the download rate in the 'hood drops to somewhere around DSL speed anyway. Sticking w/ Frontier's DSL is simpler, at least until the summer of 2019, which is around when my most recent net-and-phone contract will end. If ATT would quit lying about bringing a cell tower over here "real soon now" (since 1997) then I'd ditch my landline in a heartbeat.
Maybe by 2019, Apple will really have a 2-ounce laptop that rolls up like a newspaper. I could go for that. If Windows beats them to it... still think I'd pass.
lowendlinux
macrumors 603
Abstract
macrumors Penryn
Around 2 years ago, I bought a Surface Pro 4, and it has been pretty great. I’ve used Macs since the early 2000s, so it was weird. Last Windows computer I had ran Windows 98.
Windows 10 has been really good so far, but there were initially problems with Windows 10 not playing nice with some Intel driver. Fixed long ago.
Annoying things? There are quite a few. I find Windows Explorer requires actual effort to keep it in a state that I like, but I do find it better overall than Finder. I never liked Finder. People have been asking for an overhaul since 10.2/10.3, but it never came. Another thing is requiring anti-virus, and keeping Windows Defender and the “real” AV up to date. It doesn’t seem to slow me down, but I hate that I need it. This may have been improved.
I find moving files with cut/copy and paste “better” on Windows. It’s more reliable. Weird, but true. OSX and Finder seems to like drag and drop more, which Windows doesn’t handle as well.
I miss Dashboard and its widgets. I know that Dashboard is one of the LEAST utilised features in the OSX world, but I used it all the time for its sticky notes and calculator.
The SP4 plays nicer with my hospital’s IT infrastructure, Citrix, Remote Desktop, and a few other things that either never worked, or weren’t reliable on my MBA.
I still love Macs, but I don’t own one right now. The ONLY reason I went with a SP4 was because, at the time, my options were another MBA (too expensive, long in the tooth, crap screen), the 12” MacBook with the single port that I had no use for (except power), and an outdated MacBook Pro that was NOTHING like what I wanted. That, and I found it hard to work from home on the (very) rare occasion that I had to.
My next computer will probably be a Mac, but it may also be an iPad Pro. 😉 I have found the pen on my SP4 to be invaluable — to the point where I’m not sure I want to switch back to the Mac. Not being able to write on a full-fledged Mac, even as an option on any hardware, is odd. Sure,an iPad Pro is a solution, but iOS is not OSX, and it’s not a laptop replacement unless your needs are light. I need to mull it over again in 1-2 years.
Windows 10 has been really good so far, but there were initially problems with Windows 10 not playing nice with some Intel driver. Fixed long ago.
Annoying things? There are quite a few. I find Windows Explorer requires actual effort to keep it in a state that I like, but I do find it better overall than Finder. I never liked Finder. People have been asking for an overhaul since 10.2/10.3, but it never came. Another thing is requiring anti-virus, and keeping Windows Defender and the “real” AV up to date. It doesn’t seem to slow me down, but I hate that I need it. This may have been improved.
I find moving files with cut/copy and paste “better” on Windows. It’s more reliable. Weird, but true. OSX and Finder seems to like drag and drop more, which Windows doesn’t handle as well.
I miss Dashboard and its widgets. I know that Dashboard is one of the LEAST utilised features in the OSX world, but I used it all the time for its sticky notes and calculator.
The SP4 plays nicer with my hospital’s IT infrastructure, Citrix, Remote Desktop, and a few other things that either never worked, or weren’t reliable on my MBA.
I still love Macs, but I don’t own one right now. The ONLY reason I went with a SP4 was because, at the time, my options were another MBA (too expensive, long in the tooth, crap screen), the 12” MacBook with the single port that I had no use for (except power), and an outdated MacBook Pro that was NOTHING like what I wanted. That, and I found it hard to work from home on the (very) rare occasion that I had to.
My next computer will probably be a Mac, but it may also be an iPad Pro. 😉 I have found the pen on my SP4 to be invaluable — to the point where I’m not sure I want to switch back to the Mac. Not being able to write on a full-fledged Mac, even as an option on any hardware, is odd. Sure,an iPad Pro is a solution, but iOS is not OSX, and it’s not a laptop replacement unless your needs are light. I need to mull it over again in 1-2 years.
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I started on Windows like many and now have multiples installs of Apple and Windows at home and I always will.
One thing Windows does far better home theatre duties and for far less money too than even an older Mac Mini
One thing Windows does far better home theatre duties and for far less money too than even an older Mac Mini
I pretty much use both Mac and Windows simultaneously on a daily basis and I must say I like both of them. I updated from Windows 7 to Windows 10 earlier this year but had a horrible experience so ended up rolling back to Windows 7 and I'm quite happy with it. I'd say the Mac OS has an advantage in stability, speed, and reliability whereas things seem to go wrong with Windows very quickly if you don't know exactly what you're doing. I also find that iCloud is quite amazing, especially if you have and use other Apple devices at the same time.
MacBooks have been really expensive and lacking in innovation lately, though, so I don't think I'll be buying another one if I ever decide to upgrade in the future.
MacBooks have been really expensive and lacking in innovation lately, though, so I don't think I'll be buying another one if I ever decide to upgrade in the future.
well spoken, exactly my thoughts.
-Apple is putting fashion over function
-they are really proud to mention the newest emoji
Lord Blackadder
macrumors P6
I no longer really understand the concept of "switching", since I use both OS X and Windows daily. At home, mostly OS X, occasionally W10 and a smidgen of Linux; at work, an even mix of OS X and Windows 10. I can't imagine using just one OS.
Though, I will say this - I own (and love) my Mid-2010 Mac Pro, and sadly it will be my last. Apple has finally succeeded in pricing me out of their desktop line. If their prices keep climbing (and middle class income continues to lag behind inflation), I might be priced out of the market for OS X altogether as it keeps moving further towards being a "luxury" brand. I've been using Macs for 30 years, so that would be disappointing to say the least.
Though, I will say this - I own (and love) my Mid-2010 Mac Pro, and sadly it will be my last. Apple has finally succeeded in pricing me out of their desktop line. If their prices keep climbing (and middle class income continues to lag behind inflation), I might be priced out of the market for OS X altogether as it keeps moving further towards being a "luxury" brand. I've been using Macs for 30 years, so that would be disappointing to say the least.
I only switched to Mac a few years ago with my 17" MBP.
I've put Windows on it via bootcamp for some software that I need and I find that the machine just runs so, so much faster and more reliably on Windows than when I boot into Mac. The battery life is better on the Mac side but all the constant animation delays, poor performance, and dismal window management make it so that I end up booting to Windows all the time.
I dislike some of the direction MS is taking with Windows, but at least it performs really well to make up for it and the overall window management is quite good.
I don't think I'll be getting another Mac computer unless Apple starts taking things in a different direction. The entry price for a 15" machine (which still feels small to me) is a nutty $3300 Canadian, too.
I've put Windows on it via bootcamp for some software that I need and I find that the machine just runs so, so much faster and more reliably on Windows than when I boot into Mac. The battery life is better on the Mac side but all the constant animation delays, poor performance, and dismal window management make it so that I end up booting to Windows all the time.
I dislike some of the direction MS is taking with Windows, but at least it performs really well to make up for it and the overall window management is quite good.
I don't think I'll be getting another Mac computer unless Apple starts taking things in a different direction. The entry price for a 15" machine (which still feels small to me) is a nutty $3300 Canadian, too.
@Altis It's weird that you say that, because it's the other way around completely from my experience and the same with all my friends who own Macs, we all find that although Windows is versatile in the sense that you can game on it, Mac happens to be the snappier, smoother, and more balanced one.
There's absolutely no way macOS is faster than Windows at this time.
Everything has some animation delay in macOS -- Windows is pretty much instant. Many flavors of Linux are this way as well.
In any case, even El Capitan runs poorly on my 2010 MBP. Safari can't even play YouTube videos properly. Meanwhile, Windows flies on it.
D.T.
macrumors G4
I don't experience any particular latency, delays, etc., from any of the UI elements/processes in MacOS (and as you might imagine, nothing in terminal where I spend a significant amount of time). This is as compared to my dedicated Windows notebook, running Win10 Pro (a machine that would blow my Mac ['15 MBP 15" 2.5/16/370X running 10.13.1] into the weeds into terms of GPU performance, and not insignificantly faster CPU-wise).
That you don't notice it doesn't mean it isn't there. I'll admit I tend to interact with computers much quicker than the average person, but it shouldn't be a problem given how powerful computers are these days.
As an example, minimizing a window in Mac has an animation; you can choose "Genie" or "Scaled" effects for the animation. So it takes time to minimize a window since it plays this animation. It blocks input (ie. clicking somewhere else) while playing this animation for no reason. In Windows, there's no animation so the window minimizes instantly. I can minimize and reopen a window several times per second even, as fast as you can click.
Switching desktop spaces is the same story: an animation that takes time.
I also far prefer the Windows/Linux taskbar/panel for organizing windows and applications. All my windows are accessible at any time from it. It's not some weird thing where it only shows the window when it minimizes and such. I can quickly minimize a bunch of specific windows without having to go to each one and going up to the minimize traffic light button.
Native window snapping to corners/sides is essential to my workflow, especially on a laptop. I do have BetterSnapTool working properly on my Mac though so that's at least solved, but it boggles my mind that Apple thinks you should have windows randomly floating around at seemingly random sizes.
I know it sounds like just little things, and they are... but they're little things that get in the way hundreds if not thousands of times per day. I keep thinking Apple will come around to addressing it, and they still might. But right now, I don't care for the Mac experience as it's slow and gets in my way in ways that it didn't used to and others currently don't.
The fact that I'd have to replace my 2010 MBP already if it weren't for other operating systems that run perfectly on it says all I really need to know about Apple and the Mac experience at this time.
As another owner of the 5,1 Mac Pro I understand completely. Apple has made some great towers back in the day. Not as impressed with the iMacs. In fact next to me sits a perfectly running 2004 G5 tower that has outlasted my 2007 iMac which sits in the closet. I have also owned a G4 tower, and a G3 blue and white when they were priced to move and still upgradable.
While I don't see myself switching away from Apple anytime soon, I am going to keep this Mac Pro running until it dies and just buy used apple desktops.
D.T.
macrumors G4
That's funny.
I've got ~30 years as a developer/architect/writer, multiple startups, sold a company in a substantial acquisition, worked in everything from embedded control systems, to cryptography to web, to mobile, to recently doing a gig with a major player (flown out to SV every other week) in the AR/VR space (on the SDK and CV side).
I'm pretty quick too 😉
[doublepost=1512561462][/doublepost]Anyway ...
I'm actually thinking about introducing another Windows machine into the mix here at the World HQ, my little G has become a bit of a gamer, and I'm looking to get her a notebook. My immediate consideration was a 13" MBP (like an Apple 2016 refurb), but the GPUs are kind of mediocre, and she's also mentioned some drawing/design type uses (i.e., a tablet + pen), so I've been shopping some of the "convertible" machines, Microsoft SB/SB2, and most recently the Lenovo Yoga 720 series - these machines offer a discrete GPU (nVidia 965M on the earlier SBs, and a 1050 on the SB2 and Yoga 720). That newer 1050 is decently stout for her use, and the option to switch over into a tablet mode on a single device is pretty compelling. So this is a case of the machine options for Windows offering a neat variation that's only present on that platform.
@Altis If the animations are bothering you and slowing your Mac down considerably, you can always disable them. I happen to have two old MacBooks ('07 and '10) and they both work fine considering what I put them through and how much I used them on a daily basis. The '07's graphics card failed in about 2011 and Apple thankfully replaced the Logic Board for me free of charge, and the '10 has some hard drive issues but nothing major. I've had several Windows laptops completely fail on me during that time which is why I think Macs are more reliable, but that's just one person's opinion and doesn't mean anything.
I have also been pondering the Yoga 720 as a replacement to my 2010 MBP 17". I find tent-mode to be really useful when desk space is limited and I just need to reference/view things.
You can get the 15" model with a quad-core 7700HQ and a GTX 1050, 256 GB PCIe SSD, for $1365 Canadian. That's a lot of machine for the price.
By comparison, the cheapest entry level MBP 13" (dual-core U-series) even is CAD $1729 (with 128 GB, $1979 with equivalent 256 GB). The 15" starts at CAD $3200.
D.T.
macrumors G4
FWIW, there's currently a sale direct from Lenovo on the entry level model (it's still GTX1050, 8GB RAM, 256 storage), I believe it's a $210 discount (US) and runs through Dec 12th[?] The RAM is user accessible, so that's terrific you can upgrade later if needed to 16GB (and apparently a 16GB module works too for 24GB total, it just needs to be physically fairly slim, there's a couple of typical brands that are supposed to work).