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The problem is your applying your own use-case to the rest of us. This is wrong.

No, no I'm not. If you re-read my post you'll see where I look beyond my own use-case and state where I think you'll see people using it as their main computer.

I'm sure some will use it as such, but I'd wager that they could also come pretty close to using an iPad as their main computer.

You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't make me wrong. I don't think your average computer user will find it to be a good primary machine. I'm not saying that some people won't use it as such.
 
No, no I'm not. If you re-read my post you'll see where I look beyond my own use-case and state where I think you'll see people using it as their main computer.



You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't make me wrong. I don't think your average computer user will find it to be a good primary machine. I'm not saying that some people won't use it as such.

Actually I think the 'average computer user' would benefit the most from this machine.
 
Actually I think the 'average computer user' would benefit the most from this machine.

How is having one of the smallest sized screens and the least powerful class of Intel processor going to help the "average" computer user? A fanless Core M is going to be limited. Unicorn tears and an Apple logo can't change that. Again, I maintain that the people that could use it as a main computer are people that could probably use an iPad as their main computer. If that is what you consider average then fine, we agree on everything other than what is average.
 
Emotions are running high here. I've been blasted for pointing out that the new Macbook is basically a netbook. Apparently that's a controversial thing despite the fact that it's 12" fanless laptop with a processor that is equivalent to top rated netbooks from late 2014.

Acer can put out a laptop with a 0.4" smaller screen and the same series of processor that's one generation old and refer to it as a netbook, but the sky is falling if you put an Apple product in the same category.

I agree though, I don't see a netbook as a viable "main" computer for myself or many other people. I'm sure some will use it as such, but I'd wager that they could also come pretty close to using an iPad as their main computer.

Neither of those two things means it's not well-equpped to be someone's main machine.


A :) to wct097. To the OP, you're right, since "main machine" is a personal definition. I agree with almost everything you're posting on the rMB but I do have to say that the size, power and port limitations would totally disqualify the rMB as my principal machine. That doesn't matter - I will probably buy one because it could be a very useful secondary machine.

General observation: we are getting tangled up in a lot of semantics and personal perspectives. The machine is what it is and there are lots of alternatives. Don't worry, be happy??? :)
 
No, no I'm not. If you re-read my post you'll see where I look beyond my own use-case and state where I think you'll see people using it as their main computer.



You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't make me wrong. I don't think your average computer user will find it to be a good primary machine. I'm not saying that some people won't use it as such.

The problem is your assumptions are wrong, which causes ambiguity in your own arguments and make them hard to solidify (or intentionally inflammatory).

The first assumption that is just wrong is calling the Apple laptop a netbook and that assumption is wrong because you underestimate the power of the computer. This Macbook is more powerful than my Late 2009 iMac which I used in my photography and graphic design businesses for years (and is still running today). Netbook are designed even today to be sub 200 dollar consumables that only do 1 thing.

The second assumption that you have which is wrong is your use of the word "main." This argument depends on what you consider your main uses to be. Myself as an example, I own the 2009 iMac which for a time was my only computer. I built s custom PC for only gaming last year. And now I'll buy this MB. I estimate that this Macbook will accomplish 85% of the tasks I use a computer for (the remaining being gaming) and as such I will be using the Macbook considerably more. I would call the MacBook my "main" computer. I will have all of my important information on it and will use it more often.

Also, I have a company issued laptop that is far less powerful than this laptop and I accomplish every goal I have work wise with it (presentations, strategy, analysis, etc). This company laptop could easily fulfill all my needs if I owned it.

It seems you are constantly falling into some sort of personal perspeption fallacy and don't really understand the computing needs of the vast majority of people. This MacBook will serve far more people's needs than it won't and it's not hard to see that. It can absolutely be most people's "main computer."

How do I know that? Most people already use a significantly less powerful machine as their main computer.
 
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How is having one of the smallest sized screens and the least powerful class of Intel processor going to help the "average" computer user? A fanless Core M is going to be limited. Unicorn tears and an Apple logo can't change that. Again, I maintain that the people that could use it as a main computer are people that could probably use an iPad as their main computer. If that is what you consider average then fine, we agree on everything other than what is average.

Screen Size is a weird one because many people accomplish most of the tasks they want to achieve on an iPhone. I think screen size need isn't mandatory.

In terms of "least powerful class of intel processor," I think this is a completely myopic view of the tasks people use computers to accomplish nowadays. This "least powerful" processor is more powerful than many computers sold even a year ago. While technology has changed dramatically even in that short amount of time, computing needs haven't.

The vast majority of people still use computers that are a quarter as powerful as this MacBook and they do big things with it.

Stop with the unicorn tears and apple logo nonsense. It's you who seems to have the incorrect view of what "normal" and "average" is.
 
The first assumption that is just wrong is calling the Apple laptop a netbook and that assumption is wrong because you underestimate the power of the computer.

I've already gone through the trouble of comparing the Macbook's specs to current generation netbooks. They're on par in terms of screen size, processor power, and weight. You're getting too worked up about the term "netbook", but it's a fair classification. The 5Y70 proc in the new Macbook is only marginally faster than the 2367M in Lenovo's 130e netbook, and that's only because that particular netbook uses a proc that is two generations older than the new Macbook.

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i3-2367M-vs-Intel-Core-M-5Y70

This new proc (Broadwell) is simply a die shrink of the previous generation, not a redesign. That doesn't make it magically so much more powerful that I, as an avid technology fan, can't fathom it's power.

The second assumption that you have which is wrong is your use of the word "main."

It's a subjective opinion, hence it's not possible for me to be wrong. That said, I'm using the word "main" to describe "primary", which also is reasonable. I direct you to the dictionary under synonyms: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/main

How do I know that? Most people already use a significantly less powerful machine as their main computer.

So you're saying that the 5th generation Core M chip at 1.1ghz is more powerful than most computers that are say 1-4 years old, but I'm the one that is wrong in my estimates of the processor's power? Have you even bothered looking at the benchmarks?

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+M-5Y70+@+1.10GHz&id=2382

Screen Size is a weird one because many people accomplish most of the tasks they want to achieve on an iPhone. I think screen size need isn't mandatory.

I don't count people that primarily use a smartphone as what I consider to be "computer users".

In terms of "least powerful class of intel processor," I think this is a completely myopic view of the tasks people use computers to accomplish nowadays. This "least powerful" processor is more powerful than many computers sold even a year ago.

For that to be true, the average computer sold a year ago would need a Core M proc. I see way more i3, i5, and i7 and their AMD equivalents in use than Core M. As you can see by the benchmarks, this simply isn't true unless you're talking about bottom dollar i3's that are 3+ generations old.

Besides it's a logical fallacy to argue that it should suit the needs for the average user based on the fact that the average user doesn't need a new computer yet.

Stop with the unicorn tears and apple logo nonsense. It's you who seems to have the incorrect view of what "normal" and "average" is.

Yet you seem bent on declaring a fanless Broadwell Core M processor as the pinnacle of processing performance. Clearly we have vastly different experience in the computing industry.

I personally plan on exercising one of the new MacBooks and I'll be sure to revisit this thread and agree that I'm wrong if it outpaces my 2011 model desktop or most of the computers I've used or worked on in the last couple years.

Next you'll tell me that most people will be perfectly happy with a twin sized bed and a 1 cylinder moped as their primary forms of bedding and transportation.
 
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Next you'll tell me that most people will be perfectly happy with a twin sized bed and a 1 cylinder moped as their primary forms of bedding and transportation.

Since it's fairly obvious that you won't be swayed, that you've intentionally used hedged and biased language, and because I feel that I've sufficiently stated my thoughts with no need to go in circles, I'll only respond to a small portion of your drivel.

I understand your bed and moped comment are intended to be coy, but I think it actually is very revealing about how myopic your views are. We aren't comparing twin beds to California kings and we aren't comparing mopeds to Mercedes Benz.

We are comparing a BMW 3 series to a BMW 5 series and acting like the 3 won't be able to be your primary vehicle because the 5 is more powerful. It's almost a joke.
 
Since it's fairly obvious that you won't be swayed, that you've intentionally used hedged and biased language, and because I feel that I've sufficiently stated my thoughts with no need to go in circles, I'll only respond to a small portion of your drivel.

I understand your bed and moped comment are intended to be coy, but I think it actually is very revealing about how myopic your views are. We aren't comparing twin beds to California kings and we aren't comparing mopeds to Mercedes Benz.

We are comparing a BMW 3 series to a BMW 5 series and acting like the 3 won't be able to be your primary vehicle because the 5 is more powerful. It's almost a joke.

Two thoughts. First, I've been posting supporting info to support my opinions. For example here are benchmarks for the 1.1ghz proc in the current Macbook and a low power 2nd gen i3 proc. As you can see, the new Macbook is hardly "more powerful" than a common low end proc that is several generations old:

Here is the benchmark for the 1.1ghz proc: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+M-5Y70+@+1.10GHz&id=2382
Here is the benchmark for a low power second gen i3: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i3-2120T+@+2.60GHz

Second, if we're using cars as a reasonable analogy, the new Macbook is a 2015 BMW i3, and you're telling me that it's just as versatile as my 2005 BMW M3 or my buddy's 2006 530.
 
Two thoughts. First, I've been posting supporting info to support my opinions. For example here are benchmarks for the 1.1ghz proc in the current Macbook and a low power 2nd gen i3 proc. As you can see, the new Macbook is hardly "more powerful" than a common low end proc that is several generations old:

Here is the benchmark for the 1.1ghz proc: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+M-5Y70+@+1.10GHz&id=2382
Here is the benchmark for a low power second gen i3: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i3-2120T+@+2.60GHz

Second, if we're using cars as a reasonable analogy, the new Macbook is a 2015 BMW i3, and you're telling me that it's just as versatile as my 2005 BMW M3 or my buddy's 2006 530.

I can't seem to say this clearly enough for it to resonate with you. Your supporting information is based on a false premise. That being that benchmark tests define how consumers use their computers. They don't. And that's why your supporting evidence isn't relevant.

The only relevant factor is functionality for the buyers uses. The fact remains that the vast majority of consumers will have all of their computing needs met by this product. I know this because the vast majority of consumers ALREADY USE FAR LESS POWERFUL MACHINES. It's not that hard to understand, but acknowledging this simple fact would undermine your entire position so I understand why you don't.

I'll add that your reading comprehension really needs some work. Can you please tell me where I ever used the word "versatile" or "more powerful?" This is a perfect example of how you continually hedge your position by responding in such a way that was pretty close to what is being discussed but swayed in your direction. Stop it. I'm not nor have I ever claimed this computer to be the most versatile and powerful computer you can buy. I would be the first to admit that if you want the most versatility, buy a 2015 rMBP. But I'm not saying that and never did. I'm saying that the rMB could easily accomplish the tasks that most consumers use them for without struggle. And it will. because ts happening right now already.
 
I have to agree that you guys overestimate what the average user needs in terms of computer power or activity. Everyone posting here on the forums is not an average user. I know enough ppl that only use a tablet as their only device as well as guys that never used USB in their life. Nobody of these guys will see any difference in the power of their cpu while they check their facebook status and that is the majority of buyers. If you are even thinking about different cpus or the single usb port then you are not the average user anymore.
 
I'm saying that the rMB could easily accomplish the tasks that most consumers use them for without struggle. And it will. because ts happening right now already.

That is 100% accurate. 12" rMB is perfectly suitable to be the main computer for what I'd estimate to be 95% of current Mac customers.

All this other talk about "netbooks" and "benchmarks" is just noise being made by spec-obsessed forum geeks who don't understand how normal people use their computers.
 
I have to agree with those who say only the numbers geeks and those who have no idea what they're talking about are mocking the performance potential. I have a 2011 15" MBP and it's more than powerful enough for my needs even being 'old'. I would love to get a new 15" rMBP, but I honestly wouldn't even need half of it's power potential. The only reason why I haven't jumped at the new 13" rMBP is due to wondering if a newly designed rMBP will be announced in the near future. With that said, when April 10th comes it will be hard for me to resist the rMB. It's a bit small for my preference, but everything else is perfect for me. If you are more of a casual user power potential is secondary. If anything the battery life and portability are the most important things for most laptop users. I know a lot of people on this forum love numbers, I respect that, but most people who buy Mac's don't even need half of it's power.
 
If you read some comments in this forum I have the feeling I should throw my early 2010 Macbook Air out of the window (and everyone else who uses an older machine apparently) because the raw power of that laptop is not sufficient anymore to do even the easiest tasks:eek:
The new MB is not designed for heavy gaming or rendering or stuff like that but that doesn't mean that it is unable to perform all the everyday tasks that a user expects from a laptop. And if video / photo editing is your daily business why does someone like that even consider a MB and then complain about the lack of power. ;)
 
Such arguing.

Why is the MacBook being dismissed so quickly? No the 2015 Core M isn't as powerful as the 2015 Broadwell, but that's because it's a different class of chip. Since PS and LR and other editing software runs on 2010 and older Macs, I'm sure that the new MB can handle it. Will it be a dream? That depends, but probably not. It will not handle massive graphics like a 2013 15" rMBP with 16GB of RAM and a 750M will.

I think people here way overestimate what many people do on a system. If you're a gamer, you already know the MB isn't for you. If you're a graphic designer you may be looking elsewhere. If you just need a portable system for Office, Safari, iTunes, etc. this is a great system. I'm thinking of one as a complement to my main system, but I know many that could go with just the MacBook.


----
As for iPad. Yes, for many basic users they could just get an iPad and save money, but some people don't like tablets. Also, the iPad is limited in some functionality. No mouse support make working extensively with Office a chore and I've had to take my 15" rMBP to school lately because the iPad simply can't do what I need it to. Either Safari isn't compatible with a group site, or I need software that isn't designed for iOS.

I truly can't understand the hate. Is it overpriced? Yes, somewhat. With the Core M, 480p camera, and current Apple lineup I think it's about $200 overpriced, but that's what happens when a new product comes out. Remember the MBA had a fraction of the power and 80GB storage for $1800 when it first came out.

----
Purely Anecdotal Evidence

I work in a lot of group projects at my university and that combined with comments I've heard at best buy and at my Apple Store show me that the new MB is a fine. Many of the students I work with have MBAs. They've never used the dock, didn't know how to use Dropbox, and only used Office and a web browser. There are a lot of those people out there.

----------

Since it's fairly obvious that you won't be swayed, that you've intentionally used hedged and biased language, and because I feel that I've sufficiently stated my thoughts with no need to go in circles, I'll only respond to a small portion of your drivel.

Your debating prowess is truly refreshing. :)
 
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I will send my MBP 2010 into retirement and use the new MacBook as my main machine.
I will use it mainly for python programming with eclipse, some latex, an occasional game (nothing fancy), netflix and itunes. Since I am going to bring it with me to work everyday the reduced weight will come in handy.

All my tasks work with my now 5 yo MBP, so I don't see any problems in switching to the rMB.
 
On the subject of it being a netbook, I think it pretty much is. Its a pretty, 1800 au dollar netbook. I dont see what is wrong with saying that.

Its got a pretty poor chipset by todays standards, the fact the majority of people on macrumors , are saying they don't need powerful computers, they will just be using it for basic word processing and the internet pretty much says its a netbook.

You won't be able to use photo shop, or cad software, software that requires machines that are actually powerful.

Saying you can use photo shop on this, is the equivalent of comparing a knife to a nuclear weapon, both can kill but the effects are completely different. What's the point in spending thousands on software when you can't use the power of that software that makes it cost so much? Completely laughable to suggest using software like PhotoShop. Use paint if that's all your going to do.

The macbook is a concept that in 3-5 years will make sense, when intels chips for these types of machines will be as powerful as the chips in a macbook pro.

Right now the chips make it as powerful as your cheap netbook and there is nothing wrong saying that.

I dont like this version and I'm certainly going to wait for version to if it corrects some things I dong like about it.

What changes I want to see:

Obvious performance boost due to sky lake.
Two ports - I don't want to be carrying around dongles to simply plug in my drive while charging the machine.

Webcam - I live in Australia, all my family are in the UK, I use Skype all the time and for me the quality of the Webcam matters a lot so my mum can at least see me once a week. 480p is unacceptable by todays standards.

Price drop - in Australia this machine costs 1800 dollars for the base, same price as a 13inch retina macbook pro, considering the pro is better in almost every way but thinness and weight, I find it a bit baffling its the same price, however I also understand the way has priced things in the past that are new and they always seem to come den in price.

My dream though is for apple to finally embrace touch in osx, merge the two app stores and people would flock to mac.
 
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On the subject of it being a netbook, I think it pretty much is. Its a pretty, 1800 au dollar netbook. I dont see what is wrong with saying that.

Its got a pretty poor chipset by todays standards, the fact the majority of people on macrumors , are saying they don't need powerful computers, they will just be using it for basic word processing and the internet pretty much says its a netbook.

You won't be able to use photo shop, or cad software, software that requires machines that are actually powerful.

Saying you can use photo shop on this, is the equivalent of comparing a knife to a nuclear weapon, both can kill but the effects are completely different. What's the point in spending thousands on software when you can't use the power of that software that makes it cost so much? Completely laughable to suggest using software like PhotoShop. Use paint if that's all your going to do.

The macbook is a concept that in 3-5 years will make sense, when intels chips for these types of machines will be as powerful as the chips in a macbook pro.

Right now the chips make it as powerful as your cheap netbook and there is nothing wrong saying that.

Look... More cluelessness.
 
That wct guy is just another spec geek. Go play with your superior computer and not use 1/4 of what it can do. Most MBP owners waste the potential of the power it has. It was made for professionals in certain fields, not for people to flex their nerd muscles over. The rMB is more than powerful enough, nobody cares what spec geeks think. If it's not a quad core or Skylake it's not worth buying according to them. Believe it or not a tiny percentage of Mac users are on this forum. Most people couldn't care less about specs and most wouldn't even be able to tell the difference. Do you know why? They wouldn't be doing anything to actually challenge the MBP in the first place. I don't even know why people like you visit this section. I guess to be annoying?
 
Why bother complaining on a thread asking who is going to be using the computer? People should post why they're going to be using it as their main computer or telling us what they plan on doing with it; if you aren't going to be using it because you don't like it or don't think it's powerful enough - don't post or complain. I came here to read about likeminded people that will be doing what I am; I didn't come here to read the same complaints over and over.
 
I think most are underestimating how even the 'casual' user is use to things being snappy fast. Phones, tablets and computers.

I was on windows and had a laptop for work, (nightshift games and browsing) and my good also windows laptop at home.

My work laptop was more powerful than this Mac and i can't explain how glad i was to get back home to decent power.

New toy syndrome will be great. It looks great, light, and its a Mac... But when it has a stutter and a lag... well lets say i can't wait to read the posts.

Then remind yourself you paid more for it than a 128GB rMBP. :rolleyes:
 
Look, another useless post that adds nothing...

If your going to correct my opinion please add a bit more and you may be able to educate me or sway my mind.

If not please shush...

Sure I'll bite.

"Won't run photoshop." That's where you are wrong. My 2009 iMac which is much less powerful than this chipset with slower ram and a traditional HDD runs Photoshop just fine (snappy) even for multiple huge files. You can see this in the wild all day every day.

The rest of your drivel isn't even worth responding to after this photoshop doozie.

So in summary, your post is absolutely clueless. I wish your post would be disposed of by either knife or nuclear device. You choose. Either way as long as it's gone.
 
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People don't realize that processing bottlenecks typically happen with the hard drive. The SSDs in these things will take care of that. You're not going to be running some CPU/Graphics heavy game, no but most things will be just fine including PhotoShop.
 
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