Who is the Ultra for? Athletes or Wanto be Athletes?

[Indianwin2001]

I do think the wording of OP is not great.
But the AW Ultra lacks certain features Athletes see back on garmin/polarstar devices.

I think it is safe to say most people buying the Ultra are not of the caliber athletes, the regular AW is a great device to get active, but even there it lacks some serious features such as a digital coach and actual exercises to follow to improve the exercises you record via the watch.

The watch is advertised towards the athletes or at least the very active users going beyond the normal AW in terms of usage requirements.

So it is not unfound that based on that people assume you are a very active sporting type if you buy/own one of these.

Look at the promotion material from apple, you dont see out of shape people doing a grocery walk, they using it in extreme environments being ripped.

I would not call this gatekeeping, but rather you make the choice to buy the device designed and marketed to people`s lifestyle whom are very active in all kinds of harsh environments, as a person who is a far cry from that.

I actually encourage to do so, perhaps it will motivate them to become healthy and fit plus more money goes into this product, means more R&D for the Ultra 2 etc.

It is only human nature to want to be a part of something you envy, really like. Just like expensive sporting clothes/shoes and equipment, cyclist for example buying pro level peleton bikes worth 10k usd or more, they dont need it or use it to it`s full potential but want to have it because they can.

Just buy what you like, my personal beef is for certain of the sports it lacks features it is advertised towards discussed in my earlier post, not gate keeping, i think some here look at it from a very frequent sport participants point of view that it lacks stuff you would expect to be included for something marketed towards athletes and extreme weather/condition usage.

But it seems to be boils down to a very sturdy regular AW which is a device designed for all users and ages, i think that is the disconnect here.

Poor and perhaps ever so slightly misleading marketing from apple that this device somehow is made for Athletes as in pro`s that do extreme triatlons etc, which from everything i can see does not seem to be the case.

Keep it simple stupid. (no one is stupid here just the saying)

AW Ultra is a watch for everyone but with a much stronger housing and more battery life and some other quality of life features.

In the same price segment a Garmin Epix 2/ Fenix 7 is more suitable for people that train intensively and require additional metrics to keep track of their training.

While I agree with your whole premise, I have found Garmin's software to be a cluster... for years. They do an update and it breaks 5 other things that were previously working. I lost ALL trust in their software. Apple may have less functionality, but it just works properly. Garmin's Achilles heel is its software.

 

[Indianwin2001]

I would like to know this as well. It seems that the level of arrogance on this thread is through the roof. People love to have their opinions on the Internet forums. I'm 50+yo, very active and into recreational outdoor activities and work with my hands and would like a durable watch that meshes with the apple ecosystem, has a big screen for my old eyes and a decent battery. I am not a diver, marathoner, triathlete. If this watch fits your needs and you want to get it, then do so. If it doesn't, then don't. Pretty simple.

I'm 70 years old lol. I've been weightlifting since 1975. I still do, although can't go heavy anymore (mother nature is winning) but I still go 5 days a week. I also use an indoor bike in my house. The point being I probably will get the Ultra and it definitely isn't targeted for me but I want it anyway for the battery.

 

[Luba]

It's a consumer-grade wannabe athlete watch.

It could have been great but Apple totally missed the mark.

• No external Bluetooth compatibility
• No ANT+ support
• The diving support is for recreational PADI holiday divers. It's not a serious tool.
• 36 hours battery life? That's peanuts compared to Garmins near 2 weeks!

Unless Apple embraces BT external devices and includes ANT+, it's nothing more than a watch for wannabes.

What is ANT+? Seems like it a platform to connect exercise equipment, similar to Apple's Home platform that connects home security devices. The compatibility list for ANT+ are only for Android smartphones, so maybe a watch is too small. Plus, iPhones don't even support ANT+. How popular is ANT+? If ANT+ is common, wonder why iPhones don't support it?

 

[The_Interloper]

How popular is ANT+?

It's an industry standard for health & fitness equipment. Everything - heart rate monitors, power meters, cadence sensors etc - connect to Zwift/Peloton bikes, gym equipment, cycling head units etc via ANT+.

If ANT+ is common, wonder why iPhones don't support it?

Because Apple runs a closed ecosystem aka "walled garden". There is zero reason the Apple Watch couldn't transmit, for example, your heart rate during a workout (even the cheapest Garmins do this) via ANT+ or Bluetooth LE (BLE) - then you'd be able to see that metric in real time on the equipment I mentioned above. But they don't, so that's that.

 

[satchmo]

For posers?
Not that there's anything wrong with that...just be honest. You like to flaunt your gear.

But I do think Apple has left out a huge segment of athletes that aren't into extreme sports. Apple probably believes the AW8/SE is enough.

However, there's are millions of hardcore runners who would love a third button on their 'regular' Apple Watch. They don't need the heft and size of the Ultra. Or just give us a smaller Ultra.

 

[gorkt]

I said this in another forum, but this feels like the Ford F150 of watches. People will buy it, thinking it makes them appear like an elite athlete, but most won't use close to it's full functionality. I am a casual runner, and unless I started running marathons, or took up diving, I wouldn't bother with this type of watch. It also looks like it is aimed towards men - I want to see a picture of it on a small female's wrist. It is going to look massive.

 

[Knowimagination]

Like with most things the wanna be's are actually the ones gatekeeping what the "real athletes" use.

In my experience most high level people I meet in whatever hobby/industry dont give a **** what you use. They use what works for them and just appreciate that other people are getting out there doing things.

The wanna be's are the ones who do a bunch a research and then are like "you aren't a real (insert whatever)"

 

[beanbaguk]

Out of interest what catagory of 'athlete' do you put yourself in to be able to judge, categorize and demean others ?

Who said he's demeaning? Apple hasn't targeted serious athletes. If they did, they would include ANT+ along with other specific requirements for athletes.

I consider myself a high-level amateur cyclist. I currently sit in the 90th percentile of amateur cyclists (when using Garmin data), and nobody within my group would use an Apple Watch for any training.

We all use Garmin / Wahoo / Hammerhead (now SRAM), etc...

Why? Open support for ANT+ and Bluetooth.

I'm being specific for cycling but the reality is this is a general consumer product with a premium feel. Specialised tools like the Garmin Edge series are massively better than an Apple Watch. For example, there isn't a

When it comes to hiking, there are more specialised tools from Garmin which are more rugged and support more 3rd party devices.

And finally, regarding the AWU for diving.... let's wait and see but specialist devices are going to have way more sway over a multi-functional device.

Also regarding my previous comment regarding PADI holidaymakers, they are just that. Recreational divers. Of course, if you want to become a more serious diver, you'll still have to complete some of your PADI certifications, but I doubt very much if you would use or be allowed to use an AWU for this purpose!

What is ANT+? Seems like it a platform to connect exercise equipment, similar to Apple's Home platform that connects home security devices. The compatibility list for ANT+ are only for Android smartphones, so maybe a watch is too small. Plus, iPhones don't even support ANT+. How popular is ANT+? If ANT+ is common, wonder why iPhones don't support it?

The fact that you don't know what ANT+ is means says it all. It is THE standard for exercise equipment in the serious amateur / pro-level field.

 

[mjschabow]

The Ultra is for me because I ordered it.

 

[utzelu]

I think one big miss currently is the lack of a native training software, to do HITT training via your AW, with a digital coach to push you to start running/cycling/swimming more/better instead just calculating burned calies.

It should motivate you much more and tailored then anything, i really feel this is lacking on these watches.

They have Apple Fitness+ for this purpose.

 

[usagora]

Meanwhile I see this thread with all the couch potatoes putting in orders.

And how exactly did you come to the conclusion that they're couch potatoes? Just because they're ordering a different "athletic" watch than the one you'd want? 🤔 Pretty caustic way to start a thread.

 

[usagora]

Bottom line - the Ultra is for whoever likes it (for whatever reason) and can afford it - that's justification enough. Who cares what somebody else chooses to buy or wear on their wrist?

For real. Some people are sooo controlling and concerned about other peoples' business. Like everyone has to be just like them for them to be at peace 🙄

 

[jz0309]

What does it matter? It offers a feature set that appeals to certain people.
What made me order one is the 100m eater resistance and recreational diving to 40m.
I am not an athlete but work out daily.
And I certainly don’t give a crap what others think about me wearing one. And, I’m in my sixties so again, who cares???

 

[mjschabow]

My thought is, I'm going to wear it, and if someone asks me "Wait, isn't that only for athletes?" while staring at my beer gut, I'm going to say "yes" and then drink a beer and tell them to f off.

 

[beanbaguk]

Like with most things the wanna be's are actually the ones gatekeeping what the "real athletes" use.

In my experience most high level people I meet in whatever hobby/industry dont give a **** what you use. They use what works for them and just appreciate that other people are getting out there doing things.

The wanna be's are the ones who do a bunch a research and then are like "you aren't a real (insert whatever)"

Nonsense. They care because it matters.

I'm not a professional athlete, but I'm a high-level amateur cyclist. I'd probably place myself in the top 90th percentile in amateur cycling based on my Garmin, race and segment results.

There isn't a squiggly chance anyone in my field would use an Apple Watch for cycling. Plus, while all power meters, sensors and the like are generally dual-channel BT and ANT+, the constant is always ANT+.

Why? Bluetooth standards were not constant, whereas ANT+ was. It also suits pro athletes because you can connect multiple devices to one sensor (up to four), at one time.

With the advent of BLE, things have definitely improved for BT but it's still very hit and miss. I train indoors using my smart trainer and BLE frequently drops leaving me stranded in a workout (usually when I'm pushing hard and the adrenaline is rushing), but worst still when you're in the middle of a virtual race. The BT signal goes, and that top 5 place is long gone.

As a result, I've switched to using an ANT+ adapter and since then, I've never had a drop.

Some would argue the opposite, but ANT+ is a very robust and solid standard which is why high-level sports people use it. Constant data (which you need), reliable and connects quickly (which you need), and no faffing about having to reconnect every time you get back to your bike or reconnect a sensor.

Also, I want to add my ANT+ HRM strap battery life lasted an insane 2 years wearing it almost daily. The newer BLE strap that I have and I use this for my virtual training, lasts about 6 months. I also don't think I've ever changed the battery for the cadence / speed sensor on my 10-year-old roadie which is now used almost daily on my smart trainer.

Even my current roadie has a speed sensor and after 2 years and over 18,000km, it's still perfectly fresh.

This is why it matters.

 

[beanbaguk]

What does it matter? It offers a feature set that appeals to certain people.
What made me order one is the 100m eater resistance and recreational diving to 40m.
I am not an athlete but work out daily.
And I certainly don’t give a crap what others think about me wearing one. And, I’m in my sixties so again, who cares???

My thought is, I'm going to wear it, and if someone asks me "Wait, isn't that only for athletes?" while staring at my beer gut, I'm going to say "yes" and then drink a beer and tell them to f off.

Nobody is saying it doesn't look good. Heck, I wouldn't mind one myself, but all I've said from the start is it's not for high-level athletes. It doesn't matter how much Apple pretend it can be used for this, but no dedicated sports athlete would use the AWU as a serious tool.

For everyone else, it's pretty cool.

An analogy. A Tesla (which is a pretty ok car), goes fast in a straight line. Faster than some LeMans racers. But you wouldn't take a Tesla on a LeMan's 24-hour race, would you?

 

[Knowimagination]

Nonsense. They care because it matters.

I'm not a professional athlete, but I'm a high-level amateur cyclist. I'd probably place myself in the top 90th percentile in amateur cycling based on my Garmin, race and segment results.

There isn't a squiggly chance anyone in my field would use an Apple Watch for cycling. Plus, while all power meters, sensors and the like are generally dual-channel BT and ANT+, the constant is always ANT+.

Why? Bluetooth standards were not constant, whereas ANT+ was. It also suits pro athletes because you can connect multiple devices to one sensor (up to four), at one time.

With the advent of BLE, things have definitely improved for BT but it's still very hit and miss. I train indoors using my smart trainer and BLE frequently drops leaving me stranded in a workout (usually when I'm pushing hard and the adrenaline is rushing), but worst still when you're in the middle of a virtual race. The BT signal goes, and that top 5 place is long gone.

As a result, I've switched to using an ANT+ adapter and since then, I've never had a drop.

Some would argue the opposite, but ANT+ is a very robust and solid standard which is why high-level sports people use it. Constant data (which you need), reliable and connects quickly (which you need), and no faffing about having to reconnect every time you get back to your bike or reconnect a sensor.

Also, I want to add my ANT+ HRM strap battery life lasted an insane 2 years wearing it almost daily. The newer BLE strap that I have and I use this for my virtual training, lasts about 6 months. I also don't think I've ever changed the battery for the cadence / speed sensor on my 10-year-old roadie which is now used almost daily on my smart trainer.

Even my current roadie has a speed sensor and after 2 years and over 18,000km, it's still perfectly fresh.

This is why it matters.

Ultimately you are just proving my point.

No one is claiming that the watch Ultra destroys more targeted industry specific stuff. We are just saying that claiming that buying the ultra makes you a poser is stupid.

 

[gorkt]

Yeah I don't judge anyone for buying it really. The battery life is very appealing, and I can see the aestetics being very appealing to certain people, but it is just too big for me to wear as an everyday watch, and I can't justify having a second watch.

 

[beanbaguk]

While I agree with your whole premise, I have found Garmin's software to be a cluster... for years. They do an update and it breaks 5 other things that were previously working. I lost ALL trust in their software. Apple may have less functionality, but it just works properly. Garmin's Achilles heel is its software.

I'd argue the opposite. I use an Edge 530 (I pre-ordered it right after launch day), and the software updates have been phenomenal. It's now 4 years old and I'm still getting regular updates, maps and more.

While I agree their website is something to be desired (I use it for analysis and Strava for everything else), the units are rock solid.

 

[beanbaguk]

Ultimately you are just proving my point.

No one is claiming that the watch Ultra destroys more targeted industry specific stuff. We are just saying that claiming that buying the ultra makes you a poser is stupid.

I never said that.

My point of discussion is the fact that Apple seems to target this for athletes and the like, but the reality is they missed the beat with all the necessary elements of a true sports smartwatch. Their marketing team have hugely overhyped what it is.

Otherwise, I think it's a cool watch and while I'm not going to spend 799USD on one, if I were offered one, I'd wear it.

 

[beanbaguk]

@AlexMac89 I guess these pro cyclist journalists have no idea as to what they are talking about:

Garmin Edge 530 review

It might lack the touch screen of its bigger siblings but the Edge 530 is no less capable

www.cyclingweekly.com

Garmin Edge 530 review

The Garmin Edge 530 is an update to the Edge 520 Plus GPS unit. It hosts a whole heap of mountain bike and road-specific features – the big one for us being the integration of Trailforks mapping. It's still missing out on a touchscreen, but we don't really consider this a negative, especially...

off.road.cc

Garmin Edge 530 Review

For riders familiar with the Garmin's Edge 5-series, there are few cosmetic changes beyond a larger, more user-friendly screen. The payoff for the Edge 530...

www.outdoorgearlab.com

Garmin Edge 530 Cycling GPS In-Depth Review

Today Garmin announced three new products, the Edge 530 (this review), the Edge 830 (that review), and new dual ANT+/Bluetooth Smart Speed and Cadence sensors (that review coming up momentarily). These products effectively complete Garmin's x30 lineup of higher-end cycling

www.dcrainmaker.com

Garmin Edge 530 GPS computer review

Garmin's mid-range GPS packs a lot of features into a small package

www.bikeradar.com

Garmin Edge 530 Review: A Bike Computer With ALL The Features (Except Touchscreen) - Sportive Cyclist

My review of the Garmin Edge 530 after 5 months of extensive use. In summary, it's a great bike computer. Read the review if you want a bit more detail...

www.sportivecyclist.com

 

[Knowimagination]

I never said that.

My point of discussion is the fact that Apple seems to target this for athletes and the like, but the reality is they missed the beat with all the necessary elements of a true sports smartwatch. Their marketing team have hugely overhyped what it is.

Otherwise, I think it's a cool watch and while I'm not going to spend 799USD on one, if I were offered one, I'd wear it.

Again by saying things like "True sports watch" you are proving my point.

Edit: Just wanted to add this isn't a diss to you I am just saying generally that the idea that there is a true sports watch, or that there cant be cyclists who would be better than you if they aren't also using certain things, or that to be considered a True (insert basically anything) there is some group that gets to decide what makes someone a true something. I worked in the cycling industry for years and experienced all different levels of it, by and large the top performing athletes that I met would never have acted gatekeepy about equipment. They would have been just stoked that people were trying new tools that might work for them and help push them to the next level.

 

[ukms]

Who said he's demeaning? Apple hasn't targeted serious athletes. If they did, they would include ANT+ along with other specific requirements for athletes.

I consider myself a high-level amateur cyclist. I currently sit in the 90th percentile of amateur cyclists (when using Garmin data), and nobody within my group would use an Apple Watch for any training.

We all use Garmin / Wahoo / Hammerhead (now SRAM), etc...

Why? Open support for ANT+ and Bluetooth.

I'm being specific for cycling but the reality is this is a general consumer product with a premium feel. Specialised tools like the Garmin Edge series are massively better than an Apple Watch. For example, there isn't a

When it comes to hiking, there are more specialised tools from Garmin which are more rugged and support more 3rd party devices.

And finally, regarding the AWU for diving.... let's wait and see but specialist devices are going to have way more sway over a multi-functional device.

Also regarding my previous comment regarding PADI holidaymakers, they are just that. Recreational divers. Of course, if you want to become a more serious diver, you'll still have to complete some of your PADI certifications, but I doubt very much if you would use or be allowed to use an AWU for this purpose!


The fact that you don't know what ANT+ is means says it all. It is THE standard for exercise equipment in the serious amateur / pro-level field.

Another pretty arrogant post …. If anyone is a wannabe its people like yourself who feel the need to tell everyone how good YOU think YOU are !

What has being in the 90th percentile of cyclists got to do with anything …. Does that give your opinion some credibility ?

Apple Fanboys get a lot of stick on here …. But we seem to have a lot of Garmin fanboys who have risen to the surface since the launch of AWU.

There are plenty of top level athletes who wouldnt give Garmin the time of day …. But that’s another topic.

I regularly see amateur cyclists riding past my community astride bikes that cost tens of thousands, the latest Lycra replica pro gear and the latest garmin devices ….. 99% of whom I would describe as wannabes. `less expensive and high end gear would serve them just as well, but having the best makes them feel more superior.

It’s questionable what is more hilarious people who THINK they are a superb athlete running down the AWU (and buyers of AWU) for various reasons or those who know they are not a superb athlete but buy the AWU because they like it for one reason or another.

 

[tmoerel]

The fact that you don't know what ANT+ is means says it all. It is THE standard for exercise equipment in the serious amateur / pro-level field.

Who cares. I just want a rugged watch that I can take hiking while listening to music without having to worry about battery life!! This seems to fit my bill. We are not, and do not need to be, what you call "serious amateurs/pros" to want to use this watch!!
And I am knee deep in the Apple ecosystem and I don't care if people find that dumb! I just like the way it all works together!!

 

[ApplePhy]

It's the best Apple Watch. Think of it like this, you can buy the S8 with 18 hours of battery and a smaller, dimmer display and a SS case for $750. Or you can buy the Ultra, with an extra button (Useful for everyone), 2x brightness, 2x battery, titanium, bigger display for...$50 more.

I solved the mystery, the Ultra is for people that like the Apple Watch and want the best version.

Well if you don’t mind the styling that is.

The Apple Watch is after all a fashion piece too. It’s not just a computer on your wrist with good specs. A lot of people dress up their Apple Watch when going out, not sure if most people would wear the ultra for this purpose.

For that reason I’d argue it’s less versatile than the regular S8