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pt3000

macrumors newbie
Sep 24, 2018
21
61
I understand what you mean and I agree, but this is something that Apple does every year. Update camera, faster chip, etc, etc. And of course people will buy. They couldn't even come up with a new design and went back to the 4/5 with the notch. I'll be holding onto my 11 for a while... probably the best iPhone I've had for the money spent.
 

Jro29

macrumors regular
Jun 13, 2017
120
96
To those i labelled as a fan boy, it was simply because i was giving them facts and examples of the technology that is readily available to use but they refused to acknowledge it or labelled it as inferior, simply because Apple is not using it.

I mean you said the tech is readily available and many others said that its implementation in other phones has been inferior. You then labelled their disagreement as fanboyism or ignoring facts even though you provided no facts to back up your assertion. Most reviews of other phones say that face recognition is not as fast or as good as Apple's. I suppose you can disagree, but then it just becomes opinion, not facts as you claim.

Nobody gets an iPhone for the newest technology and hardware. They get it for the ecosystem and the user experience. That doesn't happen by jamming the newest tech into your phones the second it comes out. That's Apple's philosophy, it's been known for years, and people who don't like that strategy have many other phones to choose from. In fact, it was only 2-3 years ago that Apple was getting it's lunch handed to them on the camera. It was actually a reason I considered getting a pixel, since photography is the most enjoyable thing I do with my phone.

So my question is, why don't you get a Samsung if you don't care about Apple's improvements and would prefer the ones that Samsung has made?
My guess is because you like iOS and the apple ecosystem. Seems inconsistent to agree with Apple's strategy on Software/UI and not on hardware, especially since they are all interrelated.
 

UBS28

macrumors 68030
Oct 2, 2012
2,893
2,340
If I want a better camera, I will buy a real camera. For now, I just want Apple to update their phone's so that they are not behind Android phones, which they still are.
 
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The.Glorious.Son

macrumors 68000
Sep 28, 2015
1,684
3,592
Chicago, IL
BTW I have just gone through all my posts and up until post 118 all i did was try to answer peoples views with examples and facts. It was only at post 118 that someone took a pop at me that the tone changed. So please dont try to make out like i was the one starting agro. Thank you.
That is fair. Perhaps I cherry picked certain comments and replies. So I do apologize. And I acknowledge there are indeed those who will flame, or are completely one-sided with Apple. I would like to see other changes and things to cause excitement too. My problem is that I can’t honestly come up with a good list. I think I’m just struggling to accept that what once cause me such great excitement has matured to the point where my expectations don’t match reality. Even had they tossed in 120hz, or eliminated the notch, I still don’t think I’d felt that feeling like I did with the 4, the 5, and the 6.
 
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mdkdue

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 10, 2011
182
168
I mean you said the tech is readily available and many others said that its implementation in other phones has been inferior. You then labelled their disagreement as fanboyism or ignoring facts even though you provided no facts to back up your assertion. Most reviews of other phones say that face recognition is not as fast or as good as Apple's. I suppose you can disagree, but then it just becomes opinion, not facts as you claim.

Nobody gets an iPhone for the newest technology and hardware. They get it for the ecosystem and the user experience. That doesn't happen by jamming the newest tech into your phones the second it comes out. That's Apple's philosophy, it's been known for years, and people who don't like that strategy have many other phones to choose from. In fact, it was only 2-3 years ago that Apple was getting it's lunch handed to them on the camera. It was actually a reason I considered getting a pixel, since photography is the most enjoyable thing I do with my phone.

So my question is, why don't you get a Samsung if you don't care about Apple's improvements and would prefer the ones that Samsung has made?
My guess is because you like iOS and the apple ecosystem. Seems inconsistent to agree with Apple's strategy on Software/UI and not on hardware, especially since they are all interrelated.
I have already stated in a previous post why i wont buy a Samsung. Yes it is because i prefer IOS but not because i am heavily involved with the ecosystem. I have a watch also but have never owned anything else Apple apart from the phone and watch.
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That is fair. Perhaps I cherry picked certain comments and replies. So I do apologize. And I acknowledge there are indeed those who will flame, or are completely one-sided with Apple. I would like to see other changes and things to cause excitement too. My problem is that I can’t honestly come up with a good list. I think I’m just struggling to accept that what once cause me such great excitement has matured to the point where my expectations don’t match reality. Even had they tossed in 120hz, or eliminated the notch, I still don’t think I’d felt that feeling like I did with the 4, the 5, and the 6.
Thank you, apology accepted.
 
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Samut

macrumors regular
Oct 1, 2017
180
174
in what ways do you consider them to be behind?

Mainly cameras, better displays and extremely fast charging on some models I would suppose.

Though IOS is vastly superior user experience to android. Not to mention Apples commitment to software updates.
 

Jro29

macrumors regular
Jun 13, 2017
120
96
I have already stated in a previous post why i wont buy a Samsung. Yes it is because i prefer IOS but not because i am heavily involved with the ecosystem. I have a watch also but have never owned anything else Apple apart from the phone and watch.

Fine, instead of ecosystem, then "interaction of hardware and software" or "user experience." The point still stands
 

MDePew24

macrumors 6502
Jun 23, 2008
252
147
Ballwin, MO
Fully prepared for the flaming as I know how these forums in particular are ,but I feel this needs to be said as it infuriates me every bloody year.

Seriously, who really cares about the Pro cameras? I mean really? How good does a camera need to be for the ’normal’ user? Or are you honestly telling me this is a forum of true photo enthusiasts who take countless photos each day?

I am still using an iPhone XS and for the odd snap and video here and there it takes absolutely fantastic pictures.

Why oh why oh why are people so drawn to the damn cameras? And why oh why do Apple seem to think everyone cares that much? I couldn’t give a rats behind about everything they say year on year about the ‘best’ camera ever, as long as the odd photo I take looks nice it means absolutely zero to me.

Why don’t they concentrate on upgrading things people actually care about like the notch, which quite frankly is completely unacceptable in 2020 and an absolute embarrassment to Apple, considering I can buy a £200 chinese phone from Amazon which doesn’t have one. And where are features like 120hz?

This is now going to be the third iteration since the iPhone X and what has REALLY changed since then? Very little apart from ‘ooooh this chip is our fastest ever and oooh we now have blah blah number of lenses’

I love iPhones, and used to really look forward to my new one each year, but its sad how it just seems to be let down after let down these days.

Ill be skipping this year again.

Flaming can start now.....
The funny thing is that many people wouldn't really notice 120hz on a phone this size. Some people have certain things they really like and gravitate toward and not everyone shares the same opinions.
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And my iPhone XS takes fantastic front camera pics and pretty decent low light pics, perfectly acceptable to post on social media or show to friends.

Which again is my point, unless you are a photographer who is going to develop them and potentially blow them up in size does anyone else really need any better?

Fine, let Apple upgrade the cameras, just not at the expense of doing anything else new to their phones, which unfortunately seems to be their strategy for the last 3 years.
That's the thing. To you, they take decent low light pictures and pictures in general but to others, this is a nice upgrade.
 
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pbonitati

macrumors regular
Aug 25, 2015
241
407
Rhode Island
The OP brings up some great points. Work on the notch, better battery, 120hz screens. The Pixel 5 has a smaller chassis then the IP12P and yet these guys fit a 4080mah battery in it. When you look at the game as whole though the items that get the biggest updates is what's left for us in this smartphone game. It's a phone and they are running out of **** to do. They want to make new ones each year and they need something to upgrade. Let's be real here, I know I don't need all that processing power with a tiny screen, I don't need these miraculous cameras. Yet, I'm still a player in this game and I will be upgrading lol. But the whole thing is kinda stupid honestly. I use Text, some phone calls, email, bank and news. I could run that garbage literally on a third of what we are getting nowadays. Marketing, YouTube, Adverts and this mysterious Apple love got us all running around like chickens. I sit here now with my IP11P, S20, Moto Razr Gen2, Pixel 4XL and other random garbage that I don't really need at all. One day I will come to my senses and buy a pager and sell all this crap. ?
 
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Lucifer666

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2014
1,064
416
Your opinion is worthless

I think not. It's a misleading post designed to make people argue, as there are so many people very passionate about the iPhone/ camera experience, and NO ONE actually believes the camera is superfluous. So although this thread is harmless, and probably welcome by camera enthusiasts (as they can gush all they want), the thread resembles a (you know what).
 

Phone Junky

macrumors 68020
Oct 29, 2011
2,431
4,240
Midwest
stupid question but.....

what is the notch on the iphone?
2CA27924-5C72-4802-A9B5-79C1BE012AFD_1_201_a.jpeg
 

mikemj23

macrumors 6502
Jul 27, 2010
469
208
I’m in the camp that is personally disappointed that the Pro models are differentiated almost purely by photographic capabilities. I’m not a good picture or video taker so I know I would miss out on the camera improvements offered by the Pro.

However, Apple has targeted photography and videography as the key feature of the Pro model for the past 2 years because they clearly know that’s what customers are looking for and will sell the most Pro iPhones.

I would much prefer improvements in the form of reduced or eliminated notches, 4K resolution, 120hz refresh rates, greatly improved battery, Touch ID integrated into screen or sleep button, etc. However, I recognize that I’m in the minority of Apple’s customer base who is aware of and cares about these kinds of improvements.

So while I sit in total confusion over terms like aperture, LIDAR, telephoto, bigger pixels, optical zoom, and HDR, I know I’m in the minority and there are lots of people salivating over these specs that are meaningless to me.

I am somewhat in this camp. Big time iOS user especially with 5 in my family and all of us on iOS. I also take a lot of photos and videos of the kids. The camera improvements over the years have been nice but I have an 11 Pro Max and I'm really questioning whether I will be getting the 12. I'd love some help with the major differences between the 11 Pro Max cameras and the 12 Pro Max. Not all the technical stuff (because I'd just be lost) . . . for example - how much better would the pictures be if I'm taking a shot of my son at his baseball game? Or I'm filing my kids running around with our dog in the back yard? Right now, I think the 11 PM takes pretty damn good pics and 4k video. I do think better zoom would be great, but how much better is it really? Anytime I zoom it just comes out grainy.

As far as the OP's original points . . . I definitely get it. I look at the Galaxy Z Fold 2 and I've had to hold myself back from pulling the trigger numerous times. Biggest reason I don't is iOS. I've tried Android and always come back to iOS. Just a preference and exactly what Apple wants, but a real use case problem when looking what Samsung and others are now starting to pump out from an innovation standpoint. Would love a foldable and I'm sure Apple has one in the works, but I want it now!!!!
 
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Jro29

macrumors regular
Jun 13, 2017
120
96
I am somewhat in this camp. Big time iOS user especially with 5 in my family and all of us on iOS. I also take a lot of photos and videos of the kids. The camera improvements over the years have been nice but I have an 11 Pro Max and I'm really questioning whether I will be getting the 12. I'd love some help with the major differences between the 11 Pro Max cameras and the 12 Pro Max. Not all the technical stuff (because I'd just be lost) . . . for example - how much better would the pictures be if I'm taking a shot of my son at his baseball game? Or I'm filing my kids running around with our dog in the back yard? Right now, I think the 11 PM takes pretty damn good pics and 4k video. I do think better zoom would be great, but how much better is it really? Anytime I zoom it just comes out grainy.

Cell phone cameras now take great pictures outdoors in good lighting. Probably the equivalent to low end SLRs. The limitations of cell phones now are low-light photography and photos outside of the standard focal lengths (telephoto and wide angle lenses).
The improvements on the Pro Cameras assist with these limitations.
1) Larger Sensor. All of the phones have larger sensors (basically the “film” of a digital camera that captures the image). A bigger sensor means more light can be captured, which means more detail in your pictures. This is much more pronounced in low light than in bright sunlight because in sunlight, there is already an excess of light hitting the sensor. The 12 Pro Max has a sensor that is I think 50 percent bigger still making it even better in this regard. I think this is the biggest improvement for the Pro Max and the biggest thing that sets it apart from its predecessor and from the other iPhone 12s.
2) image stabilization- another issue with photography in low light is camera shake. To get enough light to form an image the shutter has to stay open longer which means you have to hold steadier to avoid blur showing up in your pics. If it get long enough, there is no way the human hand can be steady enough to avoid blurry pics. The cameras all have optical (in lens) image stabilization. The 12 Pro Max has new additional software stabilization that accounts for movement, which allows handholding for twice as long an exposure time. Again, this will result in more light hitting the sensor, which means better pics in low light.
3) Zoom- the phones have a wide (standard) ultra wide and telephoto lens. The 12 Pro Max has a slightly longer telephoto lens (2.5x vs 2x optical zoom in the other cameras and in the 11 Pro Max). This theoretically should allow you to zoom in more without using digital zoom, which is when blurriness comes in because it’s software estimating the image instead of the lens actually seeing it. I won’t be able to tell the real word difference without seeing pictures, but numbers make me estimate you could make your pictures seem 20(?) percent closer before getting into blurry digital zoom.
4) Lenses- all the cameras now have a standard lens that has a bigger aperture. This means 1) yes, more light hitting sensor, so better low light pictures, and more ability for the blurry background that makes portraits look good. That being said, this lens was already pretty good, so I’m not sure how much practical improvement you’ll get.
5) LiDAR- this one is only on the Pro cameras. One of the tricky parts of low light photography is getting a autofocus. Especially if your target isn’t still (hello kids and pets). This is because the autofocus has a hard time locking on if there isn’t enough light. It’s harder to differentiate the subject from the background the darker it gets. LiDAR for photography uses lasers to help get the lock. Apple claims this allows autofocus to be 4 times faster. So for instance half a second vs 2 seconds. A second really makes the difference between getting and missing the shot, especially if it’s moving. LiDAR also will allow night mode to be used in the portrait setting.
I think those are the major things that are changing for the cameras that most people will care about. I’ll be interested to see pics comparing the 12 to the 11. I thought the 11 was a big leap in camera tech. I’m not sure if it will be worth it to go to the 12 for the camera stuff, but I do think that the 12 Pro Max brings enough improvements that I’ll give it a look.
 
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iggi123

macrumors newbie
Sep 14, 2019
29
59
Fully prepared for the flaming as I know how these forums in particular are ,but I feel this needs to be said as it infuriates me every bloody year.

Seriously, who really cares about the Pro cameras? I mean really? How good does a camera need to be for the ’normal’ user? Or are you honestly telling me this is a forum of true photo enthusiasts who take countless photos each day?

I am still using an iPhone XS and for the odd snap and video here and there it takes absolutely fantastic pictures.

Why oh why oh why are people so drawn to the damn cameras? And why oh why do Apple seem to think everyone cares that much? I couldn’t give a rats behind about everything they say year on year about the ‘best’ camera ever, as long as the odd photo I take looks nice it means absolutely zero to me.

Why don’t they concentrate on upgrading things people actually care about like the notch, which quite frankly is completely unacceptable in 2020 and an absolute embarrassment to Apple, considering I can buy a £200 chinese phone from Amazon which doesn’t have one. And where are features like 120hz?

This is now going to be the third iteration since the iPhone X and what has REALLY changed since then? Very little apart from ‘ooooh this chip is our fastest ever and oooh we now have blah blah number of lenses’

I love iPhones, and used to really look forward to my new one each year, but its sad how it just seems to be let down after let down these days.

Ill be skipping this year again.

Flaming can start now.....

I agree with you, keeping my X for another year
 
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The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,273
19,488
UK
Mainly cameras, better displays and extremely fast charging on some models I would suppose.

Though IOS is vastly superior user experience to android. Not to mention Apples commitment to software updates.
Would say only pixel you could argue has better camera last year
 

Jimmy James

macrumors 603
Oct 26, 2008
5,488
4,067
Magicland
Thread title: “Give is something else new”.

I’ve never seen people so desperate, as on this forum, to be sold something arbitrary and that may not exist. It’s always a cry to invent something where they have no idea what that “something” is.
 

Bozley0621

macrumors 6502
Mar 25, 2009
383
118
I currently have an 8Plus that does everything I need it to do. I was going to wait until next year to upgrade my phone, but it is the camera that has made me reconsider.

I own a very nice mirrorless Sony with several lenses. We call it the “good camera.” When I got this camera, I wanted something that took great pictures that wasn’t as big as the DSLR we had. When I got both of these cameras, I had intentions of actually learning how to use all of their features and to become more educated on using the lenses. This still hasn’t happened and we don’t take the Sony with us places where its photos would shine, because it’s one more thing to carry.

So, I’ve made the decision to sell the good camera that isn’t getting used and to upgrade my phone for due to what it offers over what I currently do use.

Cell phone cameras now take great pictures outdoors in good lighting. Probably the equivalent to low end SLRs. The limitations of cell phones now are low-light photography and photos outside of the standard focal lengths (telephoto and wide angle lenses).
The improvements on the Pro Cameras assist with these limitations....

This post wasn’t in response to me, but I’m grateful you took the time to make it!
 

Jro29

macrumors regular
Jun 13, 2017
120
96
I currently have an 8Plus that does everything I need it to do. I was going to wait until next year to upgrade my phone, but it is the camera that has made me reconsider.

I own a very nice mirrorless Sony with several lenses. We call it the “good camera.” When I got this camera, I wanted something that took great pictures that wasn’t as big as the DSLR we had. When I got both of these cameras, I had intentions of actually learning how to use all of their features and to become more educated on using the lenses. This still hasn’t happened and we don’t take the Sony with us places where its photos would shine, because it’s one more thing to carry.

So, I’ve made the decision to sell the good camera that isn’t getting used and to upgrade my phone for due to what it offers over what I currently do use.



This post wasn’t in response to me, but I’m grateful you took the time to make it!

An 8 plus to the 12 pro will be a significant upgrade. I think you'll be pleased.

The best camera is the one you have with you.
 
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LennyFL

macrumors member
Mar 10, 2012
93
38
Fully prepared for the flaming as I know how these forums in particular are ,but I feel this needs to be said as it infuriates me every bloody year.

Seriously, who really cares about the Pro cameras? I mean really? How good does a camera need to be for the ’normal’ user? Or are you honestly telling me this is a forum of true photo enthusiasts who take countless photos each day?

I am still using an iPhone XS and for the odd snap and video here and there it takes absolutely fantastic pictures.

Why oh why oh why are people so drawn to the damn cameras? And why oh why do Apple seem to think everyone cares that much? I couldn’t give a rats behind about everything they say year on year about the ‘best’ camera ever, as long as the odd photo I take looks nice it means absolutely zero to me.

Why don’t they concentrate on upgrading things people actually care about like the notch, which quite frankly is completely unacceptable in 2020 and an absolute embarrassment to Apple, considering I can buy a £200 chinese phone from Amazon which doesn’t have one. And where are features like 120hz?

This is now going to be the third iteration since the iPhone X and what has REALLY changed since then? Very little apart from ‘ooooh this chip is our fastest ever and oooh we now have blah blah number of lenses’

I love iPhones, and used to really look forward to my new one each year, but its sad how it just seems to be let down after let down these days.

Ill be skipping this year again.

Flaming can start now.....

I would be more excited about a battery that would last all day with normal use. The camera is OK but, I use my phone to, In Order of the amount of time I spend:
1. Listen to Books (I still want a headphone jack)
2. Email, this is number one when on the road
3. Product Demos
4. Phone
5. Web and Facebook
And occasionally I take a picture or video
 

Resqu2

macrumors 6502a
Apr 23, 2011
862
293
My instagram profile is all I need to say about why I care about the camera...

All shot on iPhone. I stopped carrying a dSLR with me when I travel. Looking forward to more telephoto, better long exposure features at night, the quality that comes along with a larger sensor and better image stabilization on the new phone.


Just gave you a follow on IG
 
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