They still suck. I can't count how many Windows computers I have had to get the bugs out of that had one of those anti-virus programs installed, and failed to protect it.
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Why a Mac costs more than a PC...
- Thread starter Giuly
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They still suck. I can't count how many Windows computers I have had to get the bugs out of that had one of those anti-virus programs installed, and failed to protect it.
Amen to that! I've used free/cheap, all the way through corporate AV systems. They all have holes and vulnerabilities. Nothing is perfect...
For the one(s) that said eventually OSX will have them, so it's moot? The key word is "eventually". That's been touted for the last 5+ years on both OSX and Linux, and it's yet to come to fruition. All this crap about market share = more viruses is crap. Don't believe the FUD/Hype, whatever. Until it happens, out of the box both OSX [UNIX], and Linux are less prone to malware/viruses. Not to say either are 100%, but close.
I found AVG worked well enough when I used Windows. My box never got infected. My kids' machines got infected because they did stupid things not because AVG wouldn't have worked if they had left it alone. There is no need to exaggerate the whole virus ecosystem on Windows. It's bad enough without the adding any mythology. I should also admit that I do hate McAffee and Norton as they are both resource hogs, outrageously invasive, and almost as bad as the viruses they protect against.
While I found my most recent windows box to be reasonably stable, I still was faced with clicking "are you sure" and other nuisance stuff many times a day. Recently, my Macbook became unstable and "almost as bad as windows" and I've done a stopgap "archive and install" of Snow Leopard to get the machine back on its feet again but there is a possible hardware problem lurking about.
I was able to call Apple and get some rudimentary help despite my AppleCare being expired months ago. If I was using a PC and having trouble, I'd be faced with fixing it myself or taking my chances hiring one of those "certified solution providers".
This is central to the value of a Mac over a PC: You can call Apple about issues and when you submit a crash log it goes to engineering. I know from experience that my crash logs went to Apple engineering as Apple level 2 support told me so and OS X updates came out within months addressing issues I was having back then. The stability of OS X has improved over the years and things that were once broken, when fixed, stay fixed.
If you need a Blu-ray player, you buy one and install it. Yes, Macs don't come standard with Blu-ray, but neither are most PCs. For most PCs, it would be an upgrade you pay for. The drives are cheaper now anyway so it's no big deal.
The Mac will never beat a PC built specifically for gaming. But then again most Mac users aren't desktop computer gamers. So it's kind of pointless to make that point. Plus, to build a gaming system, your spending as much as a Mac Pro, if not more. My cousin just built a PC gaming system, cost him about $4000. There are two video slots for graphics card, unless you get the higher end Radeon HD 5870, which I think takes up both slots, you can install 2 graphics cards, up to 1GB each. And can support up to 6 displays. Plenty of upgrade options in a Mac Pro. Unless you custom build your PC, most off the rack systems, can only have up to 2 HDDs installed. You get 4 in a Mac Pro. Ram is upgradable to 64GB. Unfortunately, the only thing not upgradable, is the CPU. Which I wish they would bring back.
As for colour. Well, I guess to each their own. Personally, I like my systems simple. The aluminum look suits me fine. Don't need the colours, and neon lights. Although, I have seen some custom built Mac Pros where they added extra cooling systems with neon lighted tubes, as well as on the trims. So yes, Macs are highly upgradable.
But you are right, there is no "perfect" computer. Just like there is no "perfect" man or woman. But there is a perfect one for each individual. The Mac is and has always been the perfect computer for me for the last 20+ years. However, with the Mac being able to run Windows (all versions), simultaneously with Mac OS X, I think you can safely say it IS a one stop shop for computers. At least for someone who uses OS X and Windows. Two computers for the price of one.
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Bullsht.
I hate to burst your bubble but you can build a gaming pc for around $500 that plays games faster than any Mac.
I can count how many times Microsoft Security Essentials has worked perfectly on my Windows 7 computer, about two times in a year. Which is about 100% success for me, because I never run into viruses or other types of malware.
Before that Avast protected me from many viruses on my Windows XP desktop. Never had a problem with viruses doing damage.
In my experience the free alternatives are just as good, if not better, than the paid for antivirus stuff.
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Now THAT'S bullsht Tell you what, you give me the specs of graphics cards, motherboard, CPU, HDDs, cooling systems, and RAM that will be faster than a Mac Pro 8-core, UNDER $600. The graphics card(s) alone to run 3D extensive games, without dropped frame rates will cost you at least that much. And that's not even as close as what is already standard in current Mac Pros.
LOL. Give me some of the sht your smoking, I want to hallucinate too.
How about this, you show me a $500 PC (stock or custom) that beats a 12-core 2.66GHz, 64GB ram, ATI Radeon 5770 GPU, and I'll convert. Dang! If I can buy or build a PC for $500 that out works the 12-core Mac Pro (base), who wouldn't convert. lol!
Here's a base gaming system. Low end stuff that won't even compete with a Quad-core Mac Pro, let alone an 8-core or 12-core:
Cooler Master Centurion RC-534-SKN2-GP No Power Supply Mid-Tower Case (Silver/Black) $79.99
Antec EarthWatts EA430 430W ATX12V Power Supply $89.99
Asus P5B Deluxe Core 2 Duo/ P965/ SATA2/ A&2GbE/ ATX Motherboard $266.99
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6400 2.13GHz 1066MHz 2MB LGA775 CPU OEM $264.99
STT DDR2-800 1GB/64x8 CL4 Memory x 2 $148.98
Thermaltake CL-P0257 Blue Orb II Silent For 945/K8/775 Dual Core CPU Fan $54.99
Hitachi 320GB 0A33405 ATA133 7200rpm 8MB RoHS Hard Drive $109.99
SonyNEC AD-7170A-0S 18X Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive (Silver) $49.99
XFX nVidia GeForce 7300GT 512MB 2DVI/HDTV PCI-Express Video Card $144.99
Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro 7.1 24-bit PCI Sound Card $189.99
Creative I-Trigue 2200 2PC Speaker System (Black/Silver) $61.99
Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 3000 Set (Keyboard + Mouse) $141.99
Microsoft Windows XP Professional W/SP2B $209.99
System sub total $1,814.86
$500. LOL!
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Umm those prices are so wrong. The biggest one I noticed being the 7300gt for $145? Did you make that list in 2006?
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Umm those prices are so wrong. The biggest one I noticed being the 7300gt for $145? Did you make that list in 2006?
Depending on where u get one, $80 - $100, so he's not way off. A little maybe, but not a huge amount.
I'd say closer to $1,000. $500 is just stupid.
I don't agree. I've had more issues with my 2007 MacBook than I have my 2000 iMac or 1994 Performa. See this thread for similar voices.
But as previously mentioned, the whole life costs (my 17 year old computer still in daily use) was well worth thepremium.
I bought an iMac G3 in 2001 and an eMac G4 in 2005. Here we are in 2011 and they are both running just fine. I cannot say that of my Compaq laptop that I purchased for school in 2003. That thing didn't make it but about a year and a half at the most.
Umm those prices are so wrong. The biggest one I noticed being the 7300gt for $145? Did you make that list in 2006?
lol. Yeah, that was actually old specs a friend of mine forwarded from work. But the prices aren't that much different. A 256 GPU would probably run you about $100 in today's market. I was just making a point that even a custom built PC with low end cheaper parts will run you more than $500, and still would fall short in terms of performance against the Mac Pro. Nefan is right, closer to $1000, but it's would be low end stuff. A buddy of mine from the IT department is building an iMac clone from PC parts. And it's running him $2500 already. And that system doesn't even stack up to the bottom end quad core Mac Pro.
But if you actually build a system equivalent to an 8 core Mac Pro, your spending at least $2800 bucks just for the Xeon capable MB and the Xeon chip. Add ram, GPU, HDD, your probably spending as much as a Mac Pro. But the big difference is, all Macs are capable of running both OS X and Windows simultaneously. There's no PC that can do that. The extra dollars for that, is worth it.
That is a PC running Mac OS X. And only Mac OS X. You can't switch OS on the fly. I don't think you can even have both OS on the system at the same time. Unless you have two separate HDDs housing each OS. But you would have to constantly keep rebooting to use one or the other. You can run Parallel or Fusion, under Hackintosh OS X, but it's pretty sluggish. Almost no point in it.
Hackintosh systems are for those people who want to use Mac OS X, but don't want to spend the dollars on an actual Mac.
One also has to remember, the chips used on Mac Pros are different from what you can get for PCs. Current PC chips use multi-threading in their multicore chips. The Xeons in Mac Pros don't need to multi-thread. Which makes them faster. As I mentioned, you can get Xeon chip and a Xeon capable MB for PCs, but it'll run you about $2800 just for those two parts alone.
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Antec 300 case $50
Cooler Master Extreme 460 W power supply $25
i3 2100 cpu and mb $120 at Microcenter
1 TB hard drive $60
4gb ram $40
460 gtx 768mb vid card $120
DVD RW $20
PLays games faster than any Mac.
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Well...the i3, 4GB ram, and 460 gtx, based on specs and performance alone doesn't even come close to a quad-core Mac Pro (base), let alone an 8-core or 12-core system. So your assumption that those specs are faster than ANY Mac is waaaaaaay off. But you are right, you can build a custom PC for $500. Hell, you can build one for less than that. Just not anywhere near the performance of a Mac Pro.
The i3 chip still uses multi-threading, and can only be compared to a duo-core chip (which isn't even used on newer Macs anymore). No where near the speed of a quad-core Xeon that doesn't need multi-threading. Your comment is like comparing a souped up honda civic going up against a stock porsche carrera turbo. On the plus side, you only spent $500. ;-)
Check this link out on CPU specs.
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http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
I said it plays games faster. Twice. And it does.
Sure probably are exceptions. Cpu bound games for example. But it's also $2000+ cheaper.
For another $180 more I could get an i5 2500k cpu and a P67 motherboard instead, overclock it to 4ghz by changing a number and get a machine that is faster than the current Mac Pro in most tasks.
Now granted the MBP has a server type class cpu and in applications that demand such hardware the story is probably different. It also has ECC memory (I believe) which is also important in some of those types of applications. And of course a very expensive state of the art case.
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Finally the truth.
I've been using Mac and PC laptops for over 15 years for work and personal. I put a lot of time on each, and there is no difference other than the styling and minutia.
At the end of the day the Mac simply is the winner of Hype, Great Marketing, and Inflated Image Bolstering.
Do NOT get me wrong, I really like my Macs, but I also enjoy the ultra durable long lasting, and very cool running ThinkPads I've had.
Over 15 of each brand in the last decade reveals no difference. They both last, they both "just work" and that's that.
Oh, and one other very important thing... you pay Big Money for the Apple Logo and Steve's Secret Sauce.
That's a Fact Jack
This is a pretty stupid debate to be having, to be honest.
There's a reason the vast majority of gamers buy PC. It's infinitely more affordable (sorry, but truth) and, most importantly, you can actually upgrade/build the computer to your exact specifications.
I love my Mac, very very much, but if you think it isn't absurd that you can't get a Mac with a BluRay player in 2011, then you are seriously biased. There's also the matter of them stubbornly refusing to support industry standards like HDMI.
The people who hate on Macs are stupid. The people who hate on PCs are stupid. The biased fanboys who make excuses for shortcomings on either side are stupid. Buy whatever computer suits your needs.
There's a reason the vast majority of gamers buy PC. It's infinitely more affordable (sorry, but truth) and, most importantly, you can actually upgrade/build the computer to your exact specifications.
I love my Mac, very very much, but if you think it isn't absurd that you can't get a Mac with a BluRay player in 2011, then you are seriously biased. There's also the matter of them stubbornly refusing to support industry standards like HDMI.
The people who hate on Macs are stupid. The people who hate on PCs are stupid. The biased fanboys who make excuses for shortcomings on either side are stupid. Buy whatever computer suits your needs.
Finally the truth.
I've been using Mac and PC laptops for over 15 years for work and personal. I put a lot of time on each, and there is no difference other than the styling and minutia.
At the end of the day the Mac simply is the winner of Hype, Great Marketing, and Inflated Image Bolstering.
Do NOT get me wrong, I really like my Macs, but I also enjoy the ultra durable long lasting, and very cool running ThinkPads I've had.
Over 15 of each brand in the last decade reveals no difference. They both last, they both "just work" and that's that.
Oh, and one other very important thing... you pay Big Money for the Apple Logo and Steve's Secret Sauce.
That's a Fact Jack
You pay big money for Thinkpads too. I'm no expert in their pricing etc, but a few glances the past month and it seems like they are fairly expensive at least for their higher quality line.
Exactly. I own a Windows pc and a Mac myself. I find folks polarize the differences to such an extreme as to not represent the reality. The reality is both have their advantages.
And I'll say again..twice...how does a lower end CPU run something faster than a higher end FASTER CPU? That's like saying YOU can out run a race horse in a quarter mile. Playing games requires your processor, so how does a slower processor run software faster than a faster processor. Benchmarks prove your thoughts wrong. You make no sense. Please enlighten us to your logic. Proof? Other than your say so. Unless you meant to say any Mac G4 and earlier. Then I would have to agree. But not ANY Mac. You can actually pic up older G4s for $200. Maybe cheaper.
And overclocking an i5 won't make run faster than a stock Mac Pro Xeon chip. As your only getting an extra 200-300 Mhz on it. Which by cpu standard is nothing. The simple fact that the i5 and the i7 (which is faster than the i5) uses multithreading. Xeon chips don't use it. They have dedicated processors. No bottle necks. Making it run faster and cooler. Please show documentation on your assumptions that oveclocking an i5 can run faster than a Xeon quad core. You should read up more on that. Even if it was "close enough", it's still not faster.
Nothing you've posted has proven your point.
I wouldn't go as far as saying it's indefinitely more affordable - but twice as affordable, yes. Except for this, I agree with your post in full. Not even the Mac Pro has Blu-ray, even though it's a desktop machine which starts at... $2500! Wtf is that?
Gtx 460 > ATI 5870
Considering processor speed is not that important for gaming, most mid-end Core2Duos will run the newest games on the highest settings, technically that $500 computer will be better for gaming. Just not for anything else.
And yes, this is a silly thing to debate, but I don't mind getting my post count up by using a thread that will be forgotten in a week
Considering processor speed is not that important for gaming, most mid-end Core2Duos will run the newest games on the highest settings, technically that $500 computer will be better for gaming. Just not for anything else.
And yes, this is a silly thing to debate, but I don't mind getting my post count up by using a thread that will be forgotten in a week
What a great read, very interesting points also
I do feel though, we spend a little for the Apple logo on the back.
I do feel though, we spend a little for the Apple logo on the back.