Why a Mac costs more than a PC...

[gslrider]

Gtx 460 > ATI 5870

Considering processor speed is not that important for gaming, most mid-end Core2Duos will run the newest games on the highest settings, technically that $500 computer will be better for gaming. Just not for anything else.

And yes, this is a silly thing to debate, but I don't mind getting my post count up by using a thread that will be forgotten in a week

In terms of performance vs dollar value, than yes the $500 system would be best to buy. You don't need a sports car to pull a carriage, when a horse will do just fine. But the argument trip1ex was making is that same $500 system will run games faster than ANY Mac, and in that regard he also makes the argument that $500 system would run faster than ANY Mac period. He should have just said he can build a gaming system that will run any GAME with no dropped frame rates for $500. But if your like most avid PC gamers, the 460 wouldn't suffice. Much better and faster graphics cards out there, that cost more than $500. I'm just basing this on my friends' gaming systems. Which are easily worth over $2000.

In regards to why Macs are more expensive, it's a simple as they aren't as popular. PCs can afford to use cheaper parts, and because Windows are still the main OS being used, more people buy PCs. In fact if you actually buy all the parts to build a Mac Pro, you'd actually be paying more than buying it already built. As I mentioned, the Xeon chip and MB alone are worth $2800. Regardless of whether your building a Mac or a PC with it. Mac parts are specific for what it's intended for. Sure they can spend less on them, and drop down the price to about half. But it wouldn't be a Mac. Apple brand has nothing to do with it. It's the parts used, and supply and demand.

 

[trip1ex]

But the argument trip1ex was making is that same $500 system will run games faster than ANY Mac, and in that regard he also makes the argument that $500 system would run faster than ANY Mac period.

What kind of logic is that?

Oh yeah the logic of someone that doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

[Hastings101]

See above for his stuff, don't want to spam with the quote

I was only saying that the $500 pc will be better than any Mac, even the best Mac Pro, for gaming with that graphics card. I thought that's what he was saying too. I'm sure building a pc that's an equivalent to a Mac Pro or an iMac would be more expensive. In fact, I'm pretty sure that most 27" IPS monitors cost as much as a base 27" iMac does.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

One also has to remember, the chips used on Mac Pros are different from what you can get for PCs.

Nope. Macs and PC use the same intel processors.

Current PC chips use multi-threading in their multicore chips.

So do current mac pros, iMacs, MacBook Pros, etc.

The Xeons in Mac Pros don't need to multi-thread.

Sorry, macs do it to. From your signature I'm wondering if you have an older generation mac pro. Is it a dual quad 2.8 with no hyper threading? From the graphics card, I would guess it is.

Which makes them faster.

Macs use the same CPU hardware as PCs, so no, not really.

As I mentioned, you can get Xeon chip and a Xeon capable MB for PCs, but it'll run you about $2800 just for those two parts alone.

Holy smokes, shop around first!


IMO, Mac Pros are expensive because they are beautifully built, custom motherboard machines (by custom I mean it is unique to Apple). You won't find motherboards like that in the wild. I can build a Xeon system for much less, but the Xeon in your signature allows you to add hard drives without plugging in any sata wires or power. It hooks into a custom sata/power slot on the motherboard using almost no tools. It is a thing of pure, simple beauty. This is not something one can build with parts off of newegg.

 

[nefan65]

You pay big money for Thinkpads too. I'm no expert in their pricing etc, but a few glances the past month and it seems like they are fairly expensive at least for their higher quality line.

The same is true for DELL and HP. If you go the local Best Buy, you only see the cheap specials. Those are the one's most people compare Mac's too, and say "See...look how much cheaper this is compared to a Mac". If you spec out a DELL Latitude, or an HP Elite, you're pretty close to a Mac in cost; sometimes more...

 

[gslrider]

What kind of logic is that?

Oh yeah the logic of someone that doesn't know what they are talking about.

Lol! So you do admit your logic is about someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Read your posts again. Then read mine. If you still can't figure it out...well...you can't figure it out. Some people are just born that way. ;-)

 

[gslrider]

Nope. Macs and PC use the same intel processors.



So do current mac pros, iMacs, MacBook Pros, etc.



Sorry, macs do it to. From your signature I'm wondering if you have an older generation mac pro. Is it a dual quad 2.8 with no hyper threading? From the graphics card, I would guess it is.



Macs use the same CPU hardware as PCs, so no, not really.



Holy smokes, shop around first!


IMO, Mac Pros are expensive because they are beautifully built, custom motherboard machines (by custom I mean it is unique to Apple). You won't find motherboards like that in the wild. I can build a Xeon system for much less, but the Xeon in your signature allows you to add hard drives without plugging in any sata wires or power. It hooks into a custom sata/power slot on the motherboard using almost no tools. It is a thing of pure, simple beauty. This is not something one can build with parts off of newegg.

Not really. PCs don't use Xeon chips. Unless you build one with it. Most PCs right now are either running i3, i5, and now i7. No Xeon.

Xeon chips don't use multi-threading. I believe they use hyper-threading technology. Which is much faster and efficient for multi-core chips. Mac Pros are the only ones that use the Xeon chip. Macbooks run i7 and iMacs are running i5. The i series chips from Intel use multi-threading.

I have a Mac Pro Xeon 8-core, not to be mistaken for a Xeon quad-core.

Macs don't use the same CPU or Motherboard PCs use. Like you said, "You won't find motherboards like that in the wild." Without that motherboard you can't run the same chip. I haven't seen anything cheaper than that. If you know of a place, please let me know. I'd appreciate that. I'll pass it along to my friend.

I agree with your sentiments at the end.

 

[GS17]

IMO, Mac Pros are expensive because they are beautifully built, custom motherboard machines (by custom I mean it is unique to Apple). You won't find motherboards like that in the wild. I can build a Xeon system for much less, but the Xeon in your signature allows you to add hard drives without plugging in any sata wires or power. It hooks into a custom sata/power slot on the motherboard using almost no tools. It is a thing of pure, simple beauty. This is not something one can build with parts off of newegg.

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense, there's nothing magical in the MP board to make it hot swappable, that's just one of the characteristics of the SATA technology, native hot swapping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA

Any pc can make use of hot swapping(no need for Xeons), and yes you can get the parts needed to make use of it at new egg (pretty cheap too, browse for hot swap) like accessible hard drive bays, cases with hot swapping built in etc. that work with any motherboard with open internal SATA connectors and power coming from the PSU. Yeah, maybe Apple's implementation is more elegant, but not necessarily so.

 

[GS17]

Not really. PCs don't use Xeon chips. Unless you build one with it. Most PCs right now are either running i3, i5, and now i7. No Xeon.

Xeon chips don't use multi-threading. I believe they use hyper-threading technology. Which is much faster and efficient for multi-core chips. Mac Pros are the only ones that use the Xeon chip. Macbooks run i7 and iMacs are running i5. The i series chips from Intel use multi-threading.

I have a Mac Pro Xeon 8-core, not to be mistaken for a Xeon quad-core.

Macs don't use the same CPU or Motherboard PCs use. Like you said, "You won't find motherboards like that in the wild." Without that motherboard you can't run the same chip. I haven't seen anything cheaper than that. If you know of a place, please let me know. I'd appreciate that. I'll pass it along to my friend.

I agree with your sentiments at the end.

Men get informed first, "Hyper-threading (officially Hyper-Threading Technology, and abbreviated HT Technology, HTT or HT) is Intel's term for its simultaneous multithreading implementation in its Atom, Core i3, Core i5, Core i7, Itanium, Pentium 4 and Xeon CPUs." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading

Only workstations use Xeons, and they been around long before there were any Intel Mac: "The first Xeon-branded processor was the Pentium II Xeon (code-named "Drake"). It was released in 1998, replacing the Pentium Pro in Intel's server lineup." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon

Want a non apple computer using Xeons? there are plenty of options, both cheaper and more expensive than a Mac Pro but you don't find them at your local Best Buy.

Mac's are PC's (personal computers) that run Mac OS X and "PC's" run other OS's. They both use SAME chips, CPU, GPU (in this case the firmware varies, but can be flashed). Apple's motherboards are propietary, based on Intel's specifications and designs. Same case, with Dell's, IBM's, HP's etc. You just need one compatible with Xeon to run them.

As for your "8 Core" Xeon MP, I'm sorry to break it to you but that's a DUAL Quad core Xeon, 2 x 4 core Xeon http://www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html

 

[rambusanna]

There is no debate

Yeah obviously macs are not for everyone. I'm glad though because this reason is what keeps macs virus free. If you can't afford it, stop crying and overcome your JEALOUSY. Macs are special, and they are for special people. My 4.5 year old Macbook 1st gen, for the first time, I had to reinstall OSX. I lost no data thanks to Time Machine. PCs get bogged down in a few months. I'm a physician, and I don't have time to mess with PC problems. That's right, I'm rich. This is why I work hard. Stop crying or work harder and you will be rewarded!

 

[PowerGamerX]

Yeah obviously macs are not for everyone. I'm glad though because this reason is what keeps macs virus free. If you can't afford it, stop crying and overcome your JEALOUSY. Macs are special, and they are for special people. My 4.5 year old Macbook 1st gen, for the first time, I had to reinstall OSX. I lost no data thanks to Time Machine. PCs get bogged down in a few months. I'm a physician, and I don't have time to mess with PC problems. That's right, I'm rich. This is why I work hard. Stop crying or work harder and you will be rewarded!

Highly doubt you're a physician. And most physicians are anything but rich. Also, Mac's aren't for special people, they're for anybody that likes them or wants them and can afford to buy them. There's no "Are you special?" questionnaire you have to go through to buy a Mac.

Also, I have a ThinkPad T43 still running the install of XP it has been since 2005. No issues. Almost all issues Mac or PC related are due to user error.

Also it's a complete fallacy to assume that because you work hard you'll get rewarded more. There are tons of hard working people out there struggling to make ends meet while there are people that do very little that have lots of money.

You're a shining example of why many people despise Mac users.

Edit: It seems I'm replying to a troll, this user has made 7 posts since they've joined.

Now I feel like a fool. :|

 

[rambusanna]

I neither care nor am I afraid of what people think! Lol....thanks for the lecture. I was simply saying that, in my experience, people are just bitter because they can't afford it. My dad is a physician. I just said that for practicality purposes. I will be one though, very soon . Oh btw, I have the BRAND SPANKIN NEW 17'' Macbook Pro with the antiglare high resolution display. I LOVEEEEEEEEEE ITTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rambusanna]

You really hurt my feelings by calling me a troll! Get a life! BWAHAAAAHAHAHA.

 

[PowerGamerX]

You really hurt my feelings by calling me a troll! Get a life! BWAHAAAAHAHAHA.

Um, judging by this post I was right. I highly doubt I'm the one that needs to get a life.

 

[rambusanna]

Um, judging by this post I was right. I highly doubt I'm the one that needs to get a life.

Look, I might have come off as a snob, but I am everything but snobby. Don't try to judge character on an online forum. You have no idea how hard I have worked to get here. I have ADHD/Learning Disorder/Manic Depression/Anxiety! So, call me a snob or a troll or whatever else. Like I said, I don't care.

One thing though is that I don't buy a mac just because they are sexy. They are great computers, and most professionals use them, like me. That must mean something?

I want to compare and contrast buying a Macbook Pro vs. buying a pair of Beats by Dre.

Beats are sexy, but not professional at all! No serious professional uses them in a studio.....regardless of what their commercials depict. I am a budding audiophile and I choose to buy professional monitoring headphones like the Shure SRH840. These are $100 cheaper and wayyy more professional than Beats. So, no I don't throw my money around.

What I'm getting to is that I don't just blindly buy stuff based on aesthetics. Macbook Pros are much more aesthetics. They are professional! How about that? Or do you need to get the last line?

 

[torbjoern]

Highly doubt you're a physician. And most physicians are anything but rich. Also, Mac's aren't for special people, they're for anybody that likes them or wants them and can afford to buy them. There's no "Are you special?" questionnaire you have to go through to buy a Mac.

Also, I have a ThinkPad T43 still running the install of XP it has been since 2005. No issues. Almost all issues Mac or PC related are due to user error.

Also it's a complete fallacy to assume that because you work hard you'll get rewarded more. There are tons of hard working people out there struggling to make ends meet while there are people that do very little that have lots of money.

You're a shining example of why many people despise Mac users.

Edit: It seems I'm replying to a troll, this user has made 7 posts since they've joined.

Now I feel like a fool. :|

Troll or not - rambusanna is obviously sockpuppeteering a stereotypical mac-fanboy as perceived by windows-users: a pretentious prat with too much money on his/her hands.

 

[aniketroxx]

BEAUTY+ PERFORMANCE +PLEASURE= MAC

This is the most significant reason i can give you for this

 

[MacAddict1978]

op makes great points, but some are not so hot. iDVD? iWeb? Both discontinued, unsupported, and undated as well as outdated. The Mac still lacks Blu-Ray and iDVD obviously doesn't support burning to those platforms. Just saying.

Apple does put a lot into design, but there isn't anything magical about the compents in the machines other than that because there isn't a millions different componets that can be placed in Mac like PC's, the OS drives them better.

I think the user experience and longevity of not the the hardware, but how long that hardware keeps up with new software (Windows boxes age fast in that regard) is great, but there is the Apple tax issue. Even accounting for some other thing, the premium on the compents inside is HUGE over a PC. A ram and hard drive upgrade on a Mac would run you what a junker windows pc costs. The price tag does keep a lot of people away that would even like a mac. Apple isn't a tiny company anymore not selling a large number of units... they could sell all their computers a lot cheaper and still profit BIG time.

 

[Zaap]

a stereotypical mac-fanboy: a pretentious prat with too much money on his/her hands.

Correction: a wanna-be pretentious prat pretending to have money because anyone can pretend anything they want on the Internet.

Everyone I know with actual money couldn't care less about people's computer choices, and certainly don't go rambling about how rich the are on tech site forums.

 

[BlizzardBolt]

Macs are for rich people who want to look different.

Otherwise, Windows is a much better choice as it cost less and not as restricted

 

[Young Spade]

Beats are sexy, but not professional at all! No serious professional uses them in a studio.....regardless of what their commercials depict. I am a budding audiophile and I choose to buy professional monitoring headphones like the Shure SRH840. These are $100 cheaper and wayyy more professional than Beats. So, no I don't throw my money around.

What I'm getting to is that I don't just blindly buy stuff based on aesthetics. Macbook Pros are much more aesthetics. They are professional! How about that? Or do you need to get the last line?

If you think Shure 840s are good, then either you're misinformed or you claim to be something you're not.

Last year, when I was 18, I had AKG K702s, custom cabling from Moon Audio, iBasso Pelican, gold/silver interconnects, and ran it through either the computer or a T51.

And even then I woudln't call myself an audiophile. That rig was then changed to Shure SE535s-> UM3Xs.

Not to derail, but I hate it when people talk like what they're doing is "the hot ****" when people all over are doing just that, or BETTER at a younger age.

Let's be serious.

 

[dazzer21]

Macs are for rich people who want to look different.

Otherwise, Windows is a much better choice as it cost less and not as restricted

Let's clarify this - the comparison is between Macs and PCs, not Macs and WINDOWS. A Mac can run Windows should you want it to - it can even run Windows and MacOS AT THE SAME TIME! If you want to consider restiction in the equation, you can't run MacOS on a PC out of the box, with or without restrictions.

 

[gslrider]

Men get informed first, "Hyper-threading (officially Hyper-Threading Technology, and abbreviated HT Technology, HTT or HT) is Intel's term for its simultaneous multithreading implementation in its Atom, Core i3, Core i5, Core i7, Itanium, Pentium 4 and Xeon CPUs." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading

Only workstations use Xeons, and they been around long before there were any Intel Mac: "The first Xeon-branded processor was the Pentium II Xeon (code-named "Drake"). It was released in 1998, replacing the Pentium Pro in Intel's server lineup." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon

Want a non apple computer using Xeons? there are plenty of options, both cheaper and more expensive than a Mac Pro but you don't find them at your local Best Buy.

Mac's are PC's (personal computers) that run Mac OS X and "PC's" run other OS's. They both use SAME chips, CPU, GPU (in this case the firmware varies, but can be flashed). Apple's motherboards are propietary, based on Intel's specifications and designs. Same case, with Dell's, IBM's, HP's etc. You just need one compatible with Xeon to run them.

As for your "8 Core" Xeon MP, I'm sorry to break it to you but that's a DUAL Quad core Xeon, 2 x 4 core Xeon http://www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html

Late reply, didn't get a notice that anyone replied back to my post. But I do know that, I've done my reading in the past. But that's not the point. The discussion here is why Macs cost more than PCs. And we are not talking about custom PCs. We are talking out of the box systems. There is NO PC that you can get off the shelf that would out work a Mac Pro. Hence why Macs tend to be more expensive. If you were to build a PC with the same specs, that can run just as well, it would cost just as much if not more.

And yes, I know the 8-core is a dual quad-core. But it's not the Quad Core system. Some people mistake the two, and I wanted to make that clear. It does affect the price, which what this thread is touching on.

 

[nefan65]

Let's clarify this - the comparison is between Macs and PCs, not Macs and WINDOWS. A Mac can run Windows should you want it to - it can even run Windows and MacOS AT THE SAME TIME! If you want to consider restiction in the equation, you can't run MacOS on a PC out of the box, with or without restrictions.

Don't feed the bridge dwellers. It's not worth it...

 

[Montymitch]

Macs are better.
Here's why:
I have two laptops. One is a Macbook, late 08. One is a Dell XPS, late 08. Similar specs, etc.
3 years later, my Macbook still runs like new. 3 years later, the Dell barely wakes up.
Macbook is still worth $6-700, the Dell? Not so much.
I'm an average user. I don't spend a lot of time in terminal, I just need my machine to be reliable and not crash. The Mac is worth the money.