Why a Mac costs more than a PC...

[yjchua95]

Come on guys.....you get what you pay. I still have an old PowerBook that STILL works to this day. I doubt whether any Windows computers can last that long.
Computers are just like air conditioners. They work great until you open Windows.

 

[dazzer21]

As above - I've got a G4 Powerbook 400MHz that was bought virtually as soon as they came out - about 11 years ago. Have used it every day, virtually, and it still asks what I want of it with no hassles whatsoever. It's been well looked after and can probably count on my digits how often it's crashed in that time. I also had a G3 PowerMac until a couple of years ago which got completely hammered when I used it and again - didn't miss a beat!

 

[Young Spade]

The quality of this forum has gone completely downhill. What happened? Where is everybody?

 

[piatti]

Come on guys.....you get what you pay. I still have an old PowerBook that STILL works to this day. I doubt whether any Windows computers can last that long.
Computers are just like air conditioners. They work great until you open Windows.

I had a 2008 MacBook that died in 3 years. There's just the white screen and fan noise when I turn it on.

 

[thunderboltmac]

Quality costs money.

 

[r0k]

I had a 2008 MacBook that died in 3 years. There's just the white screen and fan noise when I turn it on.

I had a gen 1 Time Capsule that died at 18 months. For this reason, I now use multiple backup strategies including crashplan. It's easy to make generalizations about quality from a single experience, but my TC experience is an outlier in my experience with Apple gear. I had an iPod touch that "just died" but the rest of our Apple gear including 2 Macbooks, a Macbook Pro several Mac minis, several iPod touches and iPhones and an AEBS are all working fine and completely trouble free. I've even gotten comfortable enough with Apple gear that I don't purchase AppleCare on most things.

Have you taken your MacBook to an Apple store? Repairs can get expensive outside of Applecare, but their initial diagnosis is free when you make a genius bar appointment. If you don't have an Apple store nearby, perhaps there are some things we can suggest in here. First of all, try booting from the OS DVD or CD that came with your Macbook. If it boots from that, your hardware is probably OK and you have a little work cut out getting the OS working again.

 

[piatti]

I had a gen 1 Time Capsule that died at 18 months. For this reason, I now use multiple backup strategies including crashplan. It's easy to make generalizations about quality from a single experience, but my TC experience is an outlier in my experience with Apple gear. I had an iPod touch that "just died" but the rest of our Apple gear including 2 Macbooks, a Macbook Pro several Mac minis, several iPod touches and iPhones and an AEBS are all working fine and completely trouble free. I've even gotten comfortable enough with Apple gear that I don't purchase AppleCare on most things.

Have you taken your MacBook to an Apple store? Repairs can get expensive outside of Applecare, but their initial diagnosis is free when you make a genius bar appointment. If you don't have an Apple store nearby, perhaps there are some things we can suggest in here. First of all, try booting from the OS DVD or CD that came with your Macbook. If it boots from that, your hardware is probably OK and you have a little work cut out getting the OS working again.

Yes, they said the harddrive is failing.

 

[LeandrodaFL]

2006: average Bill and average Steve wants to get a computer. Bill gets a build PC for $1000, Steve gets a Mac for $1500. They both get a computer with the exact same configuration. Bill thinks Steve is crazy for gettting a computer much more expensive with the same hardware.

2008: Both users sell their machines and get a brand new current generation computer, again with the same configs. Bill sells his PC for $500 and has to put in $500 to make his upgrade. Steve sells his Mac for $1300 and has to put in $200 to make his upgrade.

2010: Both users sell their machines and get a brand new current generation computer, again with the same configs. Bill sells his PC for $500 and has to put in $500 to make his upgrade. Steve sells his Mac for $1300 and has to put in $200 to make his upgrade.

2012: Both users sell their machines and get a brand new current generation computer, again with the same configs. Bill sells his PC for $500 and has to put in $500 to make his upgrade. Steve sells his Mac for $1300 and has to put in $200 to make his upgrade.

Seriouslly, who is winning?

People who think PCs are cheaper are FOOLS, thats why only a few are sucessfull business man, they have to see past the obvious.

"Dont trust your eyes, they can decive you" - Obi-Wan Kenobi

Macs are cheaper because they have better resell value

 

[atxappleguy]

Come on guys.....you get what you pay. I still have an old PowerBook that STILL works to this day. I doubt whether any Windows computers can last that long.
Computers are just like air conditioners. They work great until you open Windows.

Isn't that the truth!

----------

2006: average Bill and average Steve wants to get a computer. Bill gets a build PC for $1000, Steve gets a Mac for $1500. They both get a computer with the exact same configuration. Bill thinks Steve is crazy for gettting a computer much more expensive with the same hardware.

2008: Both users sell their machines and get a brand new current generation computer, again with the same configs. Bill sells his PC for $500 and has to put in $500 to make his upgrade. Steve sells his Mac for $1300 and has to put in $200 to make his upgrade.

2010: Both users sell their machines and get a brand new current generation computer, again with the same configs. Bill sells his PC for $500 and has to put in $500 to make his upgrade. Steve sells his Mac for $1300 and has to put in $200 to make his upgrade.

2012: Both users sell their machines and get a brand new current generation computer, again with the same configs. Bill sells his PC for $500 and has to put in $500 to make his upgrade. Steve sells his Mac for $1300 and has to put in $200 to make his upgrade.

Seriouslly, who is winning?

People who think PCs are cheaper are FOOLS, thats why only a few are sucessfull business man, they have to see past the obvious.

"Dont trust your eyes, they can decive you" - Obi-Wan Kenobi

Macs are cheaper because they have better resell value

I had my snowball iMac (circa 2001) up until 6 months ago. It worked perfectly and was still running strong the whole time I have had it (no issues at all). I went without a computer until a month and half ago when I purchased my iPad 2 and Mac Mini the same day. It was great fun in doing so because the service I got at the Apple store here in town was the best customer service experience I have ever gotten. I've even been able to ask them some tech questions at times without an appointment with a genius and have been accommodated quite nicely.

As you said, people that think pc's are cheaper are not that intelligent. Sure the initial cost is cheaper, but in the long run you will end up spending more (yearly anti virus/spyware cost) and then you will end up paying a great deal for another when it goes south.

As for myself, I value my computing experience and will gladly pay extra for a machine that will last me a long time and be a good value in the long term.

 

[piatti]

Macs are cheaper because they have better resell value

Why is that the case?

 

[Hellhammer]

Come on guys.....you get what you pay. I still have an old PowerBook that STILL works to this day. I doubt whether any Windows computers can last that long.
Computers are just like air conditioners. They work great until you open Windows.

I have a Fujitsu Siemens laptop from 2003 which runs flawlessly as well. There's also a PC running Windows 95 somewhere in the storage which runs fine.

 

[starvingartist8]

Macs cost more because of the design build. They use aluminium and glass too.

Those materials are about 130x more expensive than plastic

People who don't care about looks then PC is for them.

For me I like to have a neat looking machine that I can look at for 4-5 years before updating. I also much prefer os x to windows for the same reasons (unix and looks) though that is a personal preference.

By the way a lot of mac haters out there have not ever used a mac for more than 5 minutes if not ever. I know quite a few ex mac haters that now adore macs.

It was just started by some religious pc fan boys who had their nose put out of joint and started a mac hating cult. Unfortunately they were very manipulative and now have a lot of sheep followers. The fact that there is more PC users out there doesn't help to that because that means there is more of a chance to convert someone who doesn't know about computers and wants to buy one.

People saying seeing is believing. With a mac it is using is believing.

Keep in mind that for games mac suck though because MS owns direct x and it is a beautiful thing. For everything else I would prefer os x.

Windows 8 doesn't look too promising either :\ but then again I am not sure if I like the way os x is heading either though I would rather use Lion over Windows any day.

 

[scoobydoo99]

2006: average Bill and average Steve wants to get a computer. Bill gets a build PC for $1000, Steve gets a Mac for $1500. They both get a computer with the exact same configuration. Bill thinks Steve is crazy for gettting a computer much more expensive with the same hardware.

2008: Both users sell their machines and get a brand new current generation computer, again with the same configs. Bill sells his PC for $500 and has to put in $500 to make his upgrade. Steve sells his Mac for $1300 and has to put in $200 to make his upgrade.
....

Absolutely true that Macs are less expensive in the long run. People who suffer through life with PCs because they think Macs are overpriced are sadly deluded.

However, your assumption that someone could get $500 for a 2-year-old PC that originally cost $1000 is WAYYYYY too generous!

Seriously? A 2-year-old PC?! I'm thinking maybe $200 on a good day. But just finding a buyer that wants it at any price would be difficult. PCs are disposable.

 

[r0k]

Two data points from personal experience

Ok here is what lawyers call "prima facie" evidence. And by that they mean the kind of evidence you would have against a guy who robbed a bank with no mask in front of 100 witnesses, used his real name and account number on the demand note and left his wallet and id behind.

My daughter was forced to get an HP Elitebook 2730 for her school. It cost over $2000 in 2009. Hers has a loose screen which has colors drop out when you wiggle the screen and a battery that won't hold a charge (after only 24 months ?!?). On ebay, they are going for under $300 (completed listings search) and the prices range from $150 to $430.

A few weeks ago, I purchased a black Macbook for her from Microcenter. It cost me $629 and is a full year OLDER than her broken down HP. I paid extra because it was factory reconditioned and carries a 90 day warranty from Apple. On ebay they are going for $300 (completed listings again) and the prices range from $150 to $650. My white Macbook which is also a year older than her elitebook is going strong and I have no plans to replace it before mid next year.

Here's the punch line. A used black Macbook is worth the same as a PC that cost roughly $500 more and was over a year newer. I'm not making this up. This isn't opinion or hunch or some vague impression. This proof comes from public records of completed transactions on ebay. Another interesting trend is how many transactions showed up red (unsold) for the elitebook. Just about every buy it now or reserve bid over $300 for the elitebook went unsold.

I think there are really two factors for the differences between these two machines. One is build quality. While there were known problems with the Macbook family, they are nothing compared to the elitebook. The other factor is Windows versus OS X. OS X is worth something to a lot of users. Those that believe it is more stable than windows value it for that reason and those that believe it is better organized and easier to use than windows value it and are willing to pay a premium for it as well.

This is a rather narrow comparison and I'm sure it is possible to dig up other models with different specs to provide a different slant on this issue, but these are two models I own and I deeply regret purchasing the elitebook. It is sitting on a card table in my work shop alongside old Palm Pilots, LG Env phones, and other recyclables waiting for me to find the time to take them to the recycling center.

Yes, they said the harddrive is failing.

A hard drive replacement in a Macbook is very easy. For $50 you can have a new one and for a little more you can have a modest sized SSD drive. The following assumes you have a pre unibody Macbook...

1 - Get a new SATA drive and a USB to SATA cable
2 - Use carbon copy cloner to copy your old drive to the new drive (don't worry, it's file copy not block copy as long as you run CCC from the drive you booted from)
3 - reboot holding down option and pick the new drive to make sure it works
4 - pop out the battery, take out 3 screws and pull back the L shaped metal that is over the HDD and RAM.
5 - pull out the old HDD (on the left) and pop in the new one
6 - put back in the 3 screws turn on your Macbook and enjoy years of trouble free use

 

[Mac_Max]

Admittedly I haven't read the preceding 300 or so posts, but for the sake of being fair Visual Studio Express edition does essentially everything that most devs use the higher end SKUs of VS for and it is licensed for professional use.

MFC support doesn't come out of the box but there are guides all over the place on how to enable that. The biggest things you loose are reporting features and some debugging support but in my experience working in a .Net shop, most devs don't even know how to fully use the basic debugging facilities that come with VSE.

Otherwise I can't find much fault in the rest of the post. Realistically though it doesn't matter because like most things, people will just pick the platform they like using no matter what the TCO might be. I don't understand why people buy Audis when I see them as being really expensive for the amount of car you get (especially v.s. a BMW (more performance) or Cadillac (more luxury)) but I know for a fact there are people that will argue against my position until they're blue in the face. Just as an Audi is just a car at the end of the day, a Mac is just another type of PC.

 

[itdepotonline]

In my opinion:
People have been arguing online about how much more expensive Macs are than PCs or not for more than a decade and in print for years before that. These discussions usually involve some hard facts but also some persistent myths. As a long time windows guy who has recently migrated to the Mac, I think I am in a pretty good position to try and sort out reality from fiction.
Let's take a look at what you can really get for your money these days.

 

[nsayer]

What is not true is that a mac is significantly more expensive than the equivalent PC.

What is true is that the cheapest mac is significantly more expensive than the cheapest PC. But those two computers are not even close to equivalent.

Steve is quoted in The Book as admitting to this and responding (paraphrasing here), "we don't know how to make a cheap computer that isn't a piece of crap, and we don't want to make pieces of crap."

 

[Hellhammer]

What is not true is that a mac is significantly more expensive than the equivalent PC.

What is true is that the cheapest mac is significantly more expensive than the cheapest PC. But those two computers are not even close to equivalent.

Steve is quoted in The Book as admitting to this and responding (paraphrasing here), "we don't know how to make a cheap computer that isn't a piece of crap, and we don't want to make pieces of crap."

A PC with similar specs (CPU, GPU, RAM, HD etc) is noticeably cheaper, that you can't change. On the other hand, "specs" needs to be specified more carefully as e.g. software is a specification too, and no PC is equivalent then (can't run OS X but that is not to say OS X is better).

 

[jha40]

You pay a little extra to avoid the problems you get from a PC.

We did a spoof ad in our marketing class poking fun at some of these problems http://youtu.be/hFbGuAA6744 Our group all had PCs before but all converted to Mac and thought it would be funny to poke fun at the the problems we don't have to worry about anymore.

 

[r0k]

You pay a little extra to avoid the problems you get from a PC.

We did a spoof ad in our marketing class poking fun at some of these problems http://youtu.be/hFbGuAA6744 Our group all had PCs before but all converted to Mac and thought it would be funny to poke fun at the the problems we don't have to worry about anymore.

Nice video, jah40!

Sometimes I call my PC at work the "Valley of the Shadow of the Hourglass." It's not that Macs have no problems, it's that the company that wrote the software has a storefront you can walk into and ask questions and get real help. Microsoft only wants to talk to you about activation. Google doesn't want to talk to humans. You can email their bots and hope the AI figures out what you want. Apple is one of few tech companies that not only wants to talk to customers but wants customers to come away from the experience delighted.

I went to the Detroit area Apple Store at Somerset mall last night. It is newly remodeled to double the floor space and it no longer feels crowded. I wasn't there to buy anything. I just wanted to see what it looked like now that it was bigger. There were plenty of Apple employees there and when I griped about the way Magic Mouse worked they listened patiently. There were no snide comments or quips about how I might not be using it correctly. There is some very effective training going on there such that even when a customer complains about something they don't become defensive.

About a month and a half ago, my cousin was buying a computer. I suggested Apple but she went to Best Buy and paid over $1500 for some PC notebook. She might wind up having no problems in the coming years but based on my experience, she would have been much better off with a Macbook Pro.

 

[Tech198]

You pay a little extra to avoid the problems you get from a PC..

*cough* BS *cough*

Strictly speaking, hardware on the mac and a comparable PC, same screen, on average (taking into account if your bought all genuine software) would only be a few hundred dollare difference anyway.

Unless, you never pay for anything. but thats not a fair comparison.

My mate says all the time he found this $500 Dell PC at DSE, but MBP costs $2099. But, like most PC users, they fail to relise of couse it costs that cheap, because its clearly not the same chip at the Macbook Pro's. (load this suxer up with PC softwrae Windows 7 Ultimate Retail (must be retail). MS Office Pro (retail), Visual Studio (reatil) .... all from MS. and its well over $1,000.. (and we are still talking of an i5) not even quad-core.

Resolution wise. Mac is better anyway with the sharper images at the same 15" displays. None of this True Life WLED technology, to try and *make* it sound important.... Why does this exsist ?? Simple.. Because companies can't do it any other way...

 

[larklungren7289]

Why a Mac costs more than a PC...

I think a little economics explains more than subjective stories about failed PCs. The real reason why a Mac costs more than a PC? C'mon people, it's called a MONOPOLY. Apple is a one stop shop. The hardware & software come from the same company. This company also has a very loyal (nostalgic?) following that relishes the fact that they don't have what EVERYBODY had in 1996: Microsoft Windows (& AOL, for that matter). Americans buy Volkswagens for similar reasons. However, driving a car is quite ubiquitous, so trends go up and down all the time. In contrast, once you've made the switch to Mac, the cost of going back is expensive. The older you get, the longer it takes to (re)learn something new, and time is money. Money in Apple's pockets, that is.

The bottom line is this: if other hardware manufacturers (Dell, for example) were allowed to use & sell Apple's OS (& physical appearance, for that matter) & sell it for a rate that netted only 75% of the profit that Apple takes in, a) they would do it, and b) many (though not all) would switch vendors. This would directly decrease the demand for Apple-made computers, and when demand goes down, so do prices.

This isn't controversial. Macs are more expensive because, in the market of those who are already dead set on getting a Mac, there is zero competition.

 

[Santabean2000]

I think a little economics explains more than subjective stories about failed PCs. The real reason why a Mac costs more than a PC? C'mon people, it's called a MONOPOLY. Apple is a one stop shop. The hardware & software come from the same company. This company also has a very loyal (nostalgic?) following that relishes the fact that they don't have what EVERYBODY had in 1996: Microsoft Windows (& AOL, for that matter). Americans buy Volkswagens for similar reasons. However, driving a car is quite ubiquitous, so trends go up and down all the time. In contrast, once you've made the switch to Mac, the cost of going back is expensive. The older you get, the longer it takes to (re)learn something new, and time is money. Money in Apple's pockets, that is.

The bottom line is this: if other hardware manufacturers (Dell, for example) were allowed to use & sell Apple's OS (& physical appearance, for that matter) & sell it for a rate that netted only 75% of the profit that Apple takes in, a) they would do it, and b) many (though not all) would switch vendors. This would directly decrease the demand for Apple-made computers, and when demand goes down, so do prices.

This isn't controversial. Macs are more expensive because, in the market of those who are already dead set on getting a Mac, there is zero competition.

Too true.

 

[FrankHahn]

The previous two posts just revealed one facet of the story. For Apple to become the most-valued technology company on earth, there exist many factors: The quality, aesthetics, easy use, better commercializing, addictiveness of Apple products, better ecosystem, better customer service, better management, loyalty to Apple, and etc.

 

[larklungren7289]

The previous two posts just revealed one facet of the story. For Apple to become the most-valued technology company on earth, there exist many factors: The quality, aesthetics, easy use, better commercializing, addictiveness of Apple products, better ecosystem, better customer service, better management, loyalty to Apple, and etc.

If I'm paying for my addiction, loyalty and commercialization of a brand, I may be paying too much . I may also need rehab.

PC consumers can choose the factors they want to pay for and how much they want to pay for them. Everybody is willing to pay for quality, aesthetics and ease of use to some extent. The ecosystem and customer service concern some much more than others. Quality of management matters a great deal when the boat sinks or stays afloat with one company; in the long run, I like my odds much better with ten.