I don't think they ever marketed it as a "dedicated fitness watch". The times when it's slow are pretty rare. Sometimes my phone and mac are slow too so. And then you ran out of examples - at bottom the occasional slowness is all you have mentioned.
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Why all the negativity?
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I don't think they ever marketed it as a "dedicated fitness watch". The times when it's slow are pretty rare. Sometimes my phone and mac are slow too so. And then you ran out of examples - at bottom the occasional slowness is all you have mentioned.
Maybe apple isn't trying to compete in that space now? But rather provide basic fitness features for folks that don't do all that complicated stuff?
And yet, at launch they had that women athlete running a marathon, was it, saying how much difference her run was because she wore a Watch. What was her name, sorry, genuinely forget.
I think most people should know you don't base a device's capabilities to serve a very specialized use case based on apples TV ads
I kind of feel sorry for her if the AW was her training tool. A marathon is a huge personal commitment-- it takes months to train to run a first marathon. It is hard, grueling work. She wasted a ton of time and could have probably run faster with a true sport watch as a training assistant. To me, that marketing gimmick is a source of the negativity.
It wasn't her first marathon (it was her first outside the USA) and she ran a personal best... http://fashion.telegraph.co.uk/colu...s-new-personal-record-at-London-Marathon.html
Good point; I stand corrected. I was operating from memory. Still doesn't change the fact that the AW by itself would be a sucky marathon training tool. There is no way to see your last split while running or effectively manage any kind of interval workout.
Mad Mac Maniac
macrumors 601
I gotcha.
Yeah I definitely agree that the exercise app itself leaves much to be desired. In fact I was just talking to a friend about that yesterday. I would like much more data and better way of comparing my runs/trends over time as you are describing. However, I guess it doesn't really bother me because I still use my Nike+ app in conjunction with my runs. It does a better job of keeping track of that data. No access to HR data, but that will change with wOS2. (side note: does anyone know if in wOS2 a 3rd party exercise app can be the default view when tracking a workout? I don't want to make "last app" the default, just when I'm running)
Regarding activity, I had a fitbit charge for 6 months prior to Apple watch and honestly I didn't find most of the things you are describing useful. Mostly confusing and/or unnecessary. I prefer the Apple Watch tracking overall. Sure there are areas of improvement, but I find it to be at the same level.
I didn't say Apple did advertise it as a dedicated watch. Obviously they didn't -- they advertise it as smartwatch, including fitness training. I said AW doesn't work as well as a dedicated sport watch. Apple did/does market it as a watch to train with, i.e., the Christy Turlington London Marathon training video segments. Great videos. But in real life not a great running watch.
You much have a blessed AW. Mine is always summer dog slow loading apps. Also I didn't run out of examples, I just got tired of typing and had other things to do. I think I gave enough examples -- they were meant as examples, not a definitive list.
I understand the Apple watch's limitations as a fitness tracker, especially compared to some other devices on the market. But I've been pleasantly surprised by the way that the activity app has motivated me. For one thing, I've been consistently taking stairs instead of the elevator at work because I know that the watch will remind me about my activity level periodically. I didn't expect that.
Mad Mac Maniac
macrumors 601
Mine has proven to be a great running watch. I've found my own solutions, which can easily be seen as "workarounds" but honestly suits my needs perfectly.
I run with my iPhone in my pocket. I am forced to do this anyway, because I listen to podcasts/audiobooks while I run. But this gives me the added benefit of accurate distance w/ GPS (although I do wanna try running sans iPhone to test the calibration accuracy) and I can still use my Nike+ app. For each run I start the exercise app on my watch and the Nike+ app on my iPhone. The exercise app allows me to check my wrist for run updates and have the constant HR monitoring; while the Nike+ app allows me to keep (MUCH better) track of my run data. Took a little acclimation period to figure out what works best for me and to get used to starting/stopping both. However, now I find the Apple Watch to be a terrifc running companion. I'm not sure what else I need.
However, with wOS 2, with a dedicated Nike+ app and (hopefully) downloadable podcasts/audiobooks (onto audible/overcast) I will be able to keep my same habits without bringing my iPhone. I'll lose GPS, but as long as the calibration keeps it within a reasonable margin of error, I'm fine without it.
Regarding slow apps.... honestly, you're using it wrong. I never use apps on my watch and it's the greatest thing ever. Apple should NOT have allowed 3rd party apps initially for 2 reasons. 1) They suck, because of the lag from iPhone to watch 2) it would break the mental paradigm of needing to use apps for everything. The only, only time I ever even go to the app grid is when I'm entering the exercise app. Load time on that is fantastic
Mine has proven to be a great running watch. I've found my own solutions, which can easily be seen as "workarounds" but honestly suits my needs perfectly.
I run with my iPhone in my pocket. I am forced to do this anyway, because I listen to podcasts/audiobooks while I run. But this gives me the added benefit of accurate distance w/ GPS (although I do wanna try running sans iPhone to test the calibration accuracy) and I can still use my Nike+ app. For each run I start the exercise app on my watch and the Nike+ app on my iPhone. The exercise app allows me to check my wrist for run updates and have the constant HR monitoring; while the Nike+ app allows me to keep (MUCH better) track of my run data. Took a little acclimation period to figure out what works best for me and to get used to starting/stopping both. However, now I find the Apple Watch to be a terrifc running companion. I'm not sure what else I need.
However, with wOS 2, with a dedicated Nike+ app and (hopefully) downloadable podcasts/audiobooks (onto audible/overcast) I will be able to keep my same habits without bringing my iPhone. I'll lose GPS, but as long as the calibration keeps it within a reasonable margin of error, I'm fine without it.
Regarding slow apps.... honestly, you're using it wrong. I never use apps on my watch and it's the greatest thing ever. Apple should NOT have allowed 3rd party apps initially for 2 reasons. 1) They suck, because of the lag from iPhone to watch 2) it would break the mental paradigm of needing to use apps for everything. The only, only time I ever even go to the app grid is when I'm entering the exercise app. Load time on that is fantastic
So that's your logic? You're using it wrong because people are using third party apps? Wow.
As for a reasonable margin of error on the distance, the jury is still out as some runners have been able to have it calibrate and others show huge discrepancies.
Mad Mac Maniac
macrumors 601
Yes, absolutely. Like I stated, Apple never should have allowed 3rd party apps to be released how they are. Regardless, I think using apps on the watch should be the exception not the rule. All you do on your iPhone is use apps, but that habit needs to be broken. If you're spending more than 10-20% of your watch time within apps, it's going to be a frusterating experience. Can you do it? Sure. Should you do it? No. Especially the way 3rd party apps work right now.
Edit: It would be like if someone got an iPod Touch and an iPad, always brought both with them everywhere they went, but spent a majority of their time on the iPod Touch reading comic books and novels. Can you do that? Sure, but the screen is too tiny for it to be pleasant for long durations. Why not just use the iPad? Are you using the iPod Touch "wrong"? I mean technically no, but I would certainly advise against that.
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Mine has proven to be a great running watch. I've found my own solutions, which can easily be seen as "workarounds" but honestly suits my needs perfectly.
I run with my iPhone in my pocket. I am forced to do this anyway, because I listen to podcasts/audiobooks while I run. But this gives me the added benefit of accurate distance w/ GPS (although I do wanna try running sans iPhone to test the calibration accuracy) and I can still use my Nike+ app. For each run I start the exercise app on my watch and the Nike+ app on my iPhone. The exercise app allows me to check my wrist for run updates and have the constant HR monitoring; while the Nike+ app allows me to keep (MUCH better) track of my run data. Took a little acclimation period to figure out what works best for me and to get used to starting/stopping both....
Regarding slow apps.... honestly, you're using it wrong. I never use apps on my watch and it's the greatest thing ever. Apple should NOT have allowed 3rd party apps initially for 2 reasons. 1) They suck, because of the lag from iPhone to watch 2) it would break the mental paradigm of needing to use apps for everything. The only, only time I ever even go to the app grid is when I'm entering the exercise app. Load time on that is fantastic
I think you are either fooling yourself, or don't seriously care about having accurate realtime and post run data. The HRM isn't designed to continuosly monitor HR like a good sport watch does. Apple states: In addition, Apple Watch attempts to measure your heart rate every 10 minutes, but won't record it when you're in motion or your arm is moving. That is Point 1 why the AW is not a good running watch, if as I said in my initial post, you are serious about training and improving and not out for a fun run or walk.
Secondly, the GPS is, at best spotty. There certainly is no consensus on it's accuracy with the phone. In my test run with my Garmin 620, the AW, and iSmoothRun iPhone app, the AW was well off the distances of the 620 or the iSmoothRun app. Odd that there was a difference between iSmoothRun and the AW since both use the iPhone's GPS, but numbers don't lie. And why mine own "test" is anecdotal evidence only, the Internet is littered with similar stories from users and professional journalist reviews alike.
Third, unlike a true running watch, the native AW Workout app does not store historical data either on the watch or the iPhone, or on a web portal. And the data that the Workout app does show is basic. There is no elevation or cadence -- thing that help you understand your run and better compare to past runs.
You say you "found...solutions, which can easily be seen as "workarounds..." I agree, those are workarounds, because even for you using just the native AW Workout app + iPhone Health app isn't good enough. And that is my point. A great product, according to Steve Jobs, should just work right out of the box. AW doesn't fall into that category. Even you trying to justify AW as a good running watch had to find a "workaround."
It's not to say AW is a poor fitness watch. Certainly its good if you are just trying to get some exercise and don't need data, just a morale booster to tell you how well you are doing at the time. But for actual training using only the tools Apple supplies is not adequate. It's like trying to build a house with a 4.99 hammer and screwdriver set and manual hacksaw.
As for 3rd party apps, frankly, without them, how is AW a smartwatch? If I just wanted notifications and a walking coach a Fitbit charge is $99. Add in HR monitoring (wonky, but no worse than AW) for another $40. No, apps are what makes one want to spend $350+ on it. The problem is devs didn't have much playtime with actual AW hardware before releasing their apps. They also didn't really have a good feel of what a AW app should be so they shrunk down their iPhone app. Your solution is akin to toss the baby out with the bathwater.
Apple is getting to push the "reset" button in a couple months with WatchOS 2.0. I'm looking forward to some of the new functionality and also native apps. But I don't think AW 1.0 is ever going to be a good true running app, if only because the HRM is not realtime.
Good articles on the AW HRM: http://www.mcelhearn.com/apple-upda...explain-apple-watch-heart-rate-sensor-errors/ and the follow up: http://www.mcelhearn.com/did-apple-...tomers-with-fitness-tracker-feature-promises/
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I agree that third-party apps are limited in Watch OS 1.0. But I expect the next OS release to change that substantially. At that point, I'll expect them to provide more than just one-way notifications. For example, if a new meeting invitation pops up, I should be able to accept or decline it without using my iPhone. Or, if a travel app tells me that my flight has been cancelled, I want to be able to ask it to search for alternatives. Sure, there will be situations where it will make more sense to just use the iPhone because of its larger screen and other capabilities, but the more I can do on the watch practically, the better.
Mad Mac Maniac
macrumors 601
1) It actually does continuously monitor heartrate during a workout. The every 10 minutes is only when not in a workout. Go look at the health app after a run and you'll see that there are 12 measurements every minute (or one every 5 seconds). Of course you'll need to be using the exercise/workout app, but that's not an issue for me.
2) Mine has shown to be pretty darn accurate. I just ran a half marathon last saturday.
Course distance: 13.1 miles
Workout app measurement: 13.15 miles (0.38% error)
Nike+ app measurement: 13.1 (0% error)
Now, that could have been a bit of an anomaly, but that's pretty darn good. (It's also a decently flat trail in a decently open area) That's the first time that I've measured it against a known distance, but for what it's worth my workout app and nike+ are always within 0.2mi of each other.Workout app measurement: 13.15 miles (0.38% error)
Nike+ app measurement: 13.1 (0% error)
3) You say it doesn't show historical data, but then in the next sentence say that the historical data that it stores is too basic? Bottom line: it does store your historical work out data, but I agree that it's too basic. It's fine for a more casual/occasional runner, but for someone who cares a little more it's nice to have more data. Enter 3rd party apps (Nike+ in my case). Nike+ is certainly not perfect, but I do like it a lot better. I'd much rather Apple let give thousands of developers the tools to compete and make the best run tracking apps than worry about trying to do all that in house.
I think that's where we diverge. You want Apple to do everything. That's asking too much. Apple designed a watch with limitless capabilities and designed their on apps/features to give the basic feature set. Same as iPhone. Every single default app (notes, calendar, mail, etc) are very basic and good enough for the average person. But someone who's really into notes, or scheduling, or email, will typically download a more advanced 3rd party app to fit their particular needs. Same with fitness on AW. Straight out of the box you can do all your workouts with it, but if you are a more "advanced user" apple gives you the option to get that data from other apps. I bet you all the data you would ever want is archived in the health app, it's just not user friendly. All you really want is an app to better sort/display all the saved data. The best way Apple could have done it.
I had a fitbit charge for 6 months prior to AW. If I used the AW for nothing else besides an activity tracker/run companion, I'd use the AW hands down. The Charge is so basic. Unlike what you're alluding to it does NOT receive notifications (it will display a phone call, but of course you can't answer on it). Run tracking is very inaccurate and there's no way to use GPS data from your phone. You can only set a basic goal of steps/distance/calories, as opposed to the 3 rings/goals of AW. The screen stays off until you push a button. Many other things too.
Yeah without third party apps on the AW you can only track activity, your HR, your runs, get notifications from any/all your iphone apps, send and receive messages (to include all features of digital touch), send and receive phone calls, make NFC payments, have customizable snippets of relevant information on your watch face (complications), have widget-like glances for quick info, control your apple TV, use as a viewfinder for your iPhone camera, get turn-by-turn directions, set stopwatch/timer/alarms, view the weather, play music through bluetooth, receive email, check calendar appointments, look at photos, and use to locate your iPhone when you lose it. Boy I can't imagine how that could ever be considered a smartwatch...
I agree that wOS2.0 will be much better, because then I probably won't even use the workout app, just nike+. But until then, I'm doing just fine using both
What is the problem that needs to be solved?
From even before the Egyptians tried to harness and measure time, humans have been trying to measure time, tasks and productivity.
It seems that time measurements are centered on 3 components:
- Clock Time
- Event Time
- Emotive time
Clock Time - This is measurement as we all have come to know and measure with analog and traditional watches. It's the start and stop of time. It's the measurement that we use with calendars. The tools have changed over time from sundials to what timepieces that we wear on our wrist. This is the measure of efficiency.
Event Time - This is a measurement that steps out of the linear continuum and is event focused. It's going in the right direction and bringing all the components together. This is the measure of effectiveness.
Emotive time - This is a measurement of the enjoyment of the journey. It's our emotional state in influencing our success. This is the measure of happiness.
Imagine wanting to climb over a wall. Then putting a ladder on the wall to climb it and every day we climb that wall. Soon, we become efficient climbing that wall with increased speed.
Having the correct wall to climb is being effective.
Enjoying the climb is happiness.
Being ecstatically happy, climbing the right wall, very fast daily is the outcome that we want to achieve.
The tools that we use to get us there vary, and the Apple smart watch is how far we have arrived so far.
I'm still clarifying this for myself and gave a brief talk with this video on this topic.
Now is the Time by Rocky Romero
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The "Apple watch is a failure" articles are coming thick and fast.
http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/12/why-the-apple-watch-is-flopping/
http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/12/why-the-apple-watch-is-flopping/
Mad Mac Maniac
macrumors 601
All this nonsense needs to stop. It's ridiculous. Pundits need something to write about and this makes a great story
A) Apple has already sold more than any other smartwatch available (possibly even more than all smartwatches combined), and this is coming from one of, if not the, most expensive smartwatches available
b) a quick perusing through apple online store shows that many of the models still have a 5-7 business day backlog. It's kind of difficult to sell watches that you don't have
c) Of course there will be a decrease in sales over time, just like, oh I don't know, every other tech product ever (hyperbole)?
It's still way, way too early to judge anything. Honestly, I think the AW is doing as good as anyone (Apple included) ever could realistically have hoped (negative press excluded). I look at this launch similarly to the original iPhone. Sales are good, but modest. Product is very intriguing, some flaws, but great potential. Gen 2 arrives with minor refinements, app store, and sales explode. 2nd Gen Apple Watch will prove if this will be a flash in the pan on the next great success story of Apple.
The apple watch looks a really nice watch and i am going to buy one towards the fail when the new operating system is on it and working well.But i think it was very poor that they never sorted out the mail app before release day most people would get a lot of use out of emails coming to their wrist i know i would for sure i'am surprised that a app that hasn't hit the market straight away is a Facebook app " i am sure it in development".i think everyone would get a lot of use out of the Facebook app i am pretty sure another app that would be handy would be a eBay app for when you get out bid on something it comes straight to your wrist to tell you that you have been out bid on a item so you can place another bid for the item. i think most people would get a lot of use out of the watch if they had these apps working perfect - "Ebay out bid app & you have won the auction."messages,mail,Facebook,twitter, instragram,I' am sure a lot of people would get a lot use out of the eBay one to track there bids and auctions with ease
First of all I think many of these negative threads are just an opportunity to feed the trolls. Also many of the same "failure" comments were made about the Apple Tv devices. I have no idea how many of those have been sold, but I have one and it certainly looks as if Apple is continuing its development if the rumors of their new version plus tv streaming service are accurate.
I've run into a lot of people recently who have just bought the watch or are planning to. The majority have been women. I'm beginning to think that this really has been and is going to be a big hit with women. Every single one I've spoken to including my wife has just praised the convenience it offers in not having to dig their phones out of bags, purses, or pockets.
So if the device isn't right for you that's not relevant. It is not going to be a failure, and in my circles, has been a big hit.
I've run into a lot of people recently who have just bought the watch or are planning to. The majority have been women. I'm beginning to think that this really has been and is going to be a big hit with women. Every single one I've spoken to including my wife has just praised the convenience it offers in not having to dig their phones out of bags, purses, or pockets.
So if the device isn't right for you that's not relevant. It is not going to be a failure, and in my circles, has been a big hit.
Lol, it IS tempting to get a job like that. Then I could easily afford more bands for my Apple Watch and to upgrade my iPad.I don't believe it. Why waste the money? Heck, Apple fans are notorious for saying non-positive things about their _own_ favorite company whenever they don't like a new product version. No payment necessary.
Though I must say, for an extra $1,000 a month pocket cash, I think even some hardcore pro-Apple fans would be willing to anonymously post some less than glowing reviews
That's offset by Apple's blackmailing of websites, making sure that those which are too negative to Apple products, don't get invited to future keynotes or get inside info.
In answer to the original post, I can tell you I got a sense that a lot of the writers were absolutely chicken! Few were brave enough to state a very definite precise view. They hedged and hedged. Meaning they either put a generally tepid positive review almost damning with faint praise or they were overtly critical and snarky, yet put in weak disclaimers in defense of the watch, so as to give themselves an out for future scenarios in which the Watch is either a spectacular failure or a resounding success.
You'd think these people were politicians running for public office. And I can't say I blame them. The Internet public is a vicious one and what's published is there forever, to be extolled or mocked depending on the outcome of the product's success and the tone of the writer's original review. These are people walking a thin line, trying to render their impressions and give their reviews in a way that won't endanger their livelihood, their reputations. To some extent they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. Look at the hammering we've given some of the reviewers on this forum.
And as others have pointed out, the negativity pays better returns. It's cooler to come across cynical and critical. Enthusiastic people are easier to poke fun at, accuse of being naive or fawningly devoted. It's almost a no brainer to see which path is going to be more tempting for a writer wading into untested waters on a brand new kind of product.
And the Apple Watch, as a first gen, has enough flaws to let some blood into the water. Sharks are circling for a feeding frenzy for the clicks. They always do.