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Why an RFID-enabled iPhone?

Frosties said:
That is like shouting out who, what you are all the time 24/7.
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Oh really?

The sample I see here shows a way to make a phone's games or videos interact with toys.

Another example I've read (subway farecard) would tell people that I'm subway rider 25879346 or something. I've also read about using it as a credit card, which would require a PIN number to use. Anyone can currently snap a photo of you handing a card to a cashier, so it's no different from that.

None of these are shouting out anything about who I am. If you're critisizing something else, you'll have to actually tell me what you're talking about since it hasn't been mentioned here yet.
 
Small White Car said:
The sample I see here shows a way to make a phone's games or videos interact with toys.
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You already have a standard for this, connecting any media device in a network. Your phone, your camera, media device to your tv, game console, internet and the cloud etc. Microsoft and almost every leading manufacturer is already shipping and using devices or soon to release with this standard. Apple is just trying to not follow standard and over complicate for us users. Bottom line: This is not a good idea. It is inventing something that is already out as a standard in the industry.
 
yetanotherdave said:
You already use cards, which are trackable, stop whining, give us the option for ultra convenience, They'll still let you pay in cash if you choose!
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You have the option to allow another to see/use your card, whereas RFID are wireless and do not give you the same protection.
 
MacRumors said:


Multiple reports have come in that Apple is researching RFID integration into the iPhone, but some may still be wondering what such functionality would bring to the table for consumers.

Firstly, we should note that RFID is a catch-all term that describes a vast array of technologies and standards. RFID tags can be relatively large and battery-powered, such as ones used in toll collection, to small "passive" tags that can be embedded into credit cards, drivers licenses (called "Enhanced Drivers Licenses" in the U.S.), passports, or stuck onto a piece of merchandise.

Currently, cell-phone usage of RFID technology is centered around Near Field Communication (NFC). NFC has three main usage scenarios: a phone acting as an RFID tag; a phone acting as an RFID reader; and peer to peer communication (P2P).

In RFID tag mode, a phone could be used as a payment device (like a credit card), an identity card, or act as a car key. In RFID reader mode the phone would be able to interact with tags in its vicinity. This article and video demonstrates how an iPhone with RFID could use physical objects to control media playback. And in P2P mode, Bluetooth pairing can be streamlined.

These are just a few ways that RFID could be used in an iPhone. When or if it becomes a reality isn't clear, but hopefully now you have a better idea of what the potential is for Apple's research in this area.

Article Link: Why an RFID-enabled iPhone?
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I must say its a great respond from Macrumors team. Many people, including me:D, where wondering what that technology is about. Now I am getting picture.
I think RFID is step forward and good approach from Apple. I understand people's distrust for this technology but if its done properly it can be timesaver in daily tasks.
 
Come to think of it, I read that one of the major irks the Japanese have with the iPhone is the fact that they can't make payments with it. Apparently they all use their cellphones over there to conduct payments, though I don't really know how the technology works.
Maybe Apple is looking to enhance the desirability of the iPhone in more gadget-advanced countries like Japan and South-Korea.
Just a thought *-)
My first post here btw ^^
 
In use

We use RFID chips in ID card for public transportation here in the Netherlands. I can't say it's the most efficient system but I can see the potential of having one set up in a device you carry with you all the time like an iPhone.
 
Hello Dave!

What my RFID enabled phone will tell me....

I'm sorry Dave, I cannot authorize the purchase of those cookies because the cholesterol content is in direct conflict with the Crestor you have been prescribed - by the way -

did you know that (insert any paid advertiser here) CVS Pharmacy can save you money by switching you to an approved generic?

The fat content also concerns me because the last pair of pants you bought was one inch greater in the waist than your previous purchase.

May i recommend the (insert any paid promotional product here) Cheerios.
 
JustBobPro said:
We use RFID chips in ID card for public transportation here in the Netherlands. I can't say it's the most efficient system but I can see the potential of having one set up in a device you carry with you all the time like an iPhone.
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Interesting to hear you say that -- I use the Oyster RFID card for public transport here in London, and it's incredibly efficient. Compared to paper tickets, it's faster to use, faster to pay for, and much more durable.

Would be great to have this built into my iPhone...

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_card#Usage_statistics to see just how massively popular RFID technology is here. Only 4% of Tube users use cash, the rest use RFID for their journeys!
 
As I tried to alude to in the article, RFID is incredibly prevalent, though it also encompasses a lot of different technologies.

For instance, Active UHF RFID (Ultra High Frequency... around 900 MHz) RFID is used in toll-paying systems like EZ-Pass in the U.S. Since these tags have batteries to drive them, they have a limited lifespan, however they can be read reliably at high speeds (30 mph+) at 30 ft.

Passive UHF RFID, also known as "EPC Gen2" or ISO 18000-6c is used in a ton of applications: Walmart's supply chain, enhanced drivers licenses and some other travel documents (excluding passport booklets). These kind of tags, depending on the antenna and environment, can be read in typical conditions from 15 - 30 ft away, but speeds above 15-20 mph is problematic for getting reliable reads. I worked most with these cards in my last job under contract with the US Government.

Passive HF RFID (High Frequency... around 12 MHz) RFID is used in credit cards, mass transit ID cards, and many access control badges. They have a very limited reliable read range of only a few centimeters. I've been working more and more with these recently in my current job with a security company.

The "Near Field Communication" (NFC) that the article talks about is talking about a version of HF RFID that is both passive and active.
 
Small White Car said:
So the fact that AT&T can currently know everything about you from miles away is ok, but if they add a chip that works for 30 or 40 feet...that's a problem?
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I like your point, but just to emphasize even further... The RFID that we're likely to see in use in an iPhone wouldn't have that far of a useful range. We'd be talking 2 feet max. See previous post.
 
can you say paranoid?!

i can't believe all the paranoia on this thread.

first of all, if it is simply an RFID Reader, then it doesn't broadcast crap about you. it senses an RFID Tag in proximity to your reader and reads the tag. software on the device then utilizes that tags info for some purpose.

secondly, if there is a tag in the device (iphone/ipod) then you'd have to be in proximity of a reader for it to be sensed and read. i would imagine that for privacy reasons a tag could be disabled dynamically by the user. or maybe even the device alerts the user that a reader is attempting to read its RFID and asks how the user would like to handle the situation.

lastly, anyone who is even remotely paranoid about such a technology coming to the iPhone/iPod had better already be on a cash basis, own no cell phone, not have internet access in their home or use it anywhere else, have no bank accounts whatsoever, not be a member of any clubs or enrolled in school, or be employed anywhere.

believe me, 99% of people are already engaging in enough activities that if big brother or big business wanted to know something about you, they'd have no problem finding it.
 
For Apple Stores

Seems reasonable that a big reason to do this is so that Apple Store employees can scan items with their new iPhone checkout systems... right?
 
The iPhone has a power source, unlike a typical card or keyfob, so I would think it could implement active RFID instead of passive.

In other words, have it ONLY functional when powered on, unlike the tag in an RFID card. Then it can be optional and up to the user—best of both worlds. Convenience AND privacy. I could accept a tiny battery drain for that flexibility.

And if you’re paranoid about whether it REALLY is turned off when it says, then you may as well be paranoid about whether there already IS a chip in your iPhone (and your shoes and your coffee) that they’re not telling you about :)

(I’d be interested to know whether active RFID could do what nkawtg72 suggested above: alert you when the tag is read. Can it know that a read has taken place or is it just a steady broadcast in one direction? A beep/vibrate would be a nice step up from what a simple card can do.)
 
My bet is on....

My bet is on the RFID being used as a payment device.
Especially since :apple: stores are already good about automating the purchase process (with emailed reciepts and the like), and with Apple recently changing their in-store handheld payment devices, with the fact that Apple currently maintains a record of your payment methods. So associating your previous payment/billing method with the rfid in your phone would allow them to easily scan you previously-purchased phone, confirm against your ID then have you on your way with your purchase.
Such as when I was in to purchase my 1st-gen iPhone, I used a credit card. Then when I upgraded to 3GS they just asked if I wanted to use the same card. It kinda shocked me that they were keeping that info, but it was quite convenient. But the only reason they were able to use my previous method was because they already knew it was me (because I was upgrading my phone). Other visits where I was just buying an accessory, I still had to whip-out my card and go through the whole process.
If they have the RFID in the phone, then they could possibly use this for any/all other purchases (not just new iPhones).
AND it would also allow them to identify a phone's owner if the phone were lost or stolen and returned to their store. As well as ensure that
Additionally, they could also use it to be sure that the phone returned to them is the SAME phone that was sold, so there wouldn't be any consumer fraud.
This would mean a decrease in profit-loss, which would eventually be passed on to consumers. :)
 
Frosties said:
From 1 party to anyone and everyone, your neighbor, elevator, cash register. Anyone with ability to scan rfid know you. That is like shouting out who, what you are all the time 24/7. That is just information pollution.
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This is NOTHING NEW.
Many of your credit cards already do this. Passports and enhanced licenses (as the post points out, if you bothered to read it) already do this.
Why get your panties in a bunch just because Apple may be considering doing the same?

Besides, your use of the term 'information pollution' is quite inaccurate and inappropriate.
Nothing is being polluted. When you walk by an area your information isn't still there an hour later.
Additionally, the VAST MAJORITY of RFID devices are PASSIVE, meaning they don't actively transmit ANY information but must be activated by a nearby reader to even be capable of being read.
Think of it like as if you were just walking down the street. You know your name, but you're not telling anyone. The only way anyone can get that info is if they ask you your name (granted in this scenario you MUST tell them if asked) but you're not just repeating it aloud ALL THE TIME.

Do you also consider it information pollution when every time ANYONE (including yourself) speak? o_O


All tin-foil hats and irrational fears of 'big brother' are unnecessary, and a waste of your valuable time. ;-)
 
The Zoo!!

This would be pretty cool idea. When you arrive at the Zoo, Museum, etc you connect to their wi-fi network. Then at each exhibit they have the RFID thing in place and you just put your phone up to the RFID reader and your phone loads a quick video on the Tiger, Lions, etc.

Just a thought.

Edit: I think the RFID devices have to be basically be touching to actually do anything, I don't think walking through turn style would pick it up. I guess this level of sensitivity is adjustable, but my AMEX card has to actually touch and remain on the reader for few seconds to actually read the card.
 

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imagine being able to walk around a store and scan items with your iphone for the company's information about the product. That's the kind of stuff we're gonna see in the not-so-distant future imo.
 
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