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Why are MBPs so over-priced?
- Thread starter groove-agent
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Some people think it's because Google actually cares about them.
Haha, those people also think Google is a tech company!
The Surface Pro (5) and Book are both on my radar, but the Book hasn't been updated to 7th gen chips.
Also considering the HP Spectre x360 15" as that seems like the ideal laptop, but I'm quite concerned about reliability for that model. They seem to have a lot of problems from what I can tell.
Bought my Surface Book November 2016 despite heavy use and significant travel it has presented no issues and remains to look pristine. I expect that Microsoft will update the Surface Book and I will be eager to see the result by the more creditable reviewers.
Surface Pro is very much inline to replace my rMB, similarly I am waiting to see if Microsoft can deliver on the extended battery life, if so likely a done deal, with the rMB being my last Mac employed professionally and that one firmly sits with Apple.
I did recently look at the 13" HP Spectre X360; it does indeed look to be a very solid package, 15" I would be more inclined to go with the Lenovo Yoga 720 as it's a more powerful solution; quad core CPU & GTX 1050, equally there is a trade off in battery life or opt for a standard clamshell notebook, given I already have the Surface Book and looking to Surface Pro.
Q-6
I love the 3:2 aspect ratio of the Surface line. I could realistically get away with any of them, and nothing I do is power-intensive (have the desktop computer for that).
It's come down to SP5, SB, Yoga 720 15.6" or 13.3", and HP Spectre x360 15.6". They all range from CAD $1100 - 2000.
I checked out the Mac lineup and not only is the form factor limiting (no pen, no touch, no 360 degree hinge, none of the ports I use, dislike the keyboard, etc)... but the cheapest one costs CAD $150 more than the upper-specced Yoga 720 15.6", and $800 more than the similar-specced 720 13.3" (i5, 8GB, 256GB SSD, 1080p IPS).
WSL looks great for incorporating Linux into Windows natively so I'm looking forward to seeing where that goes. I end up using Windows and Linux mostly on my MBP anyways in engineering.
They really aren’t.
1. Configure another computer with same specs (if you can) and price will be similar. Hell, with HP they use a dual core instead of quad core processor and I save $200
2. Who upgrades parts on a laptop. Only thing I have done in the past is increase memory and swap to an ssd. Configure it properly and you won’t need to
1. Configure another computer with same specs (if you can) and price will be similar. Hell, with HP they use a dual core instead of quad core processor and I save $200
2. Who upgrades parts on a laptop. Only thing I have done in the past is increase memory and swap to an ssd. Configure it properly and you won’t need to
Back in 2010, my 15 inch Macbook Pro with a Matte screen, 330M dedicated card, upgraded to 8 GB ram with a 512 GB SSD from Samsung costed below $2000.
Nowadays in 2017, you got a Macbook Po with much more reflections on the screen and less features (such as no DVD drive and no upgradability) and you have to buy dongles to make the machine work. And the price has increased to an incredible $3200.
And people back in 2010 thought the 15" Macbook pro was super expensive already.
In an other 7 years time, the 15" macbook pro will be $5000?
Nowadays in 2017, you got a Macbook Po with much more reflections on the screen and less features (such as no DVD drive and no upgradability) and you have to buy dongles to make the machine work. And the price has increased to an incredible $3200.
And people back in 2010 thought the 15" Macbook pro was super expensive already.
In an other 7 years time, the 15" macbook pro will be $5000?
I think time has clouded your memory. From wayback
1,999 for a base machine, selecting 8GB, nonglossy display and a 512GB SSD and you're in the 3850 price range.
I got the 2.4 ghz model which I paid + the matte screen option for around $1800. (you have a better CPU selected I see). And then 8 gb ram and 512 GB SSD from Samsung was around $350 extra using 3rd party components (Apple was also using Samsung SSD's so it worked perfectly with the 2010 Macbook Pro).
Back then, something was really wrong with you if you didn't upgrade your Macbook Pro with 3rd party components since Apple was overpricing the hell out of every upgrade. You can even see it in your print screen. Apple charging $400 for 8 gb which could be bought for $50 and charging $1300 for a 512 GB SSD while a 512 gb Samsung SSD costed only $300. That is amazing Apple pricing.
And the funny thing is, with those 3rd party components you get much much better warranty than what Apple gives you (Apple gives only 1 year while if you buy it directly from Samsung, you get much longer warranty). So there was no reason to buy the upgrades from Apple in 2010
(which is probably why Apple decided to make the Macbook Pro non upgradable since it is an easy cash generator for them)
My "cheapo" 8 gb Ram and 512 GB Samsung SSD's are still working fine in my super old 2010 MBP, so they were good quality components.
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This statement is not true at all. You can get a Dell XPS with similar or better specs (faster RAM, much more powerful GPU) than the high-end 15" MBP and it is $700 cheaper.
When will people understand that "better GPU" is subjective? NVIDIA GPUs with Apple software are NOT better. Even the 1080Ti gets horrible benchmarks compared to similar AMD GPUs.
Maybe Macs are not meant for you. But I use Apple's software and AMD cards are better.
You can’t even run the 1080Ti a mac anyway, no official drivers unless you go hacky route. amd or go home
You can’t even run the 1080Ti a mac anyway, no drivers
Hackintosh....There are benchmarks for it running FCPX. 305 seconds on AMD RX 480 VS 1140 seconds NVIDIA 1080 Ti
Those drivers aren’t official though, optimisation sucks.
I am running official drivers for my GTX 980 and my laptop beats it.
And? Sure AMD and NVIDIA GPUs excel at different things, but the GTX 1050 is objectively more powerful overall than the Radeon 560. That has nothing to do with my point and does not change the fact you can get a laptop with similar specs for $700 less.
Not for FCPX. If you are talking about gaming, I would agree with you. But people seriously need to understand how absolutely horrible NVIDIA cards are for FCPX. It doesn't matter if they are better "on paper". Optimization is all that matters.
This has not been my experience. My $2,200 laptop has better specs than the $3,500 macbook I ordered and returned. In fact, it has better specs than Apple will sell for any price at all.
Every laptop I got from about 2000 to about 2014, I upgraded. Every time. Because prices drop a lot. So I buy a laptop with 1GB of RAM, and then two years later I buy 2GB of RAM. And the 2GB wasn't even an option when I bought the machine. I've had several macbooks that were later upgraded to more memory than Apple would sell with them, or more storage, or both. Or a 512GB SSD which cost 1/4 as much as it would have to get it from Apple. And so on.
Who upgrades parts? People who aren't willing to throw money away, mostly.
Well June 5 is over and I'm not sure if I've been "won back" to Apple.
It's great that they now have Kaby Lake, but still maxed out at 16 GB of RAM, and the prices are out to lunch for what you get. For $1000 more than what I paid for my 2012, I get:
* no ethernet port, no USB ports (have to buy a docking station and buy/ carry around dongles)
* glossy screen (have to buy an antiglare shield)
* no magsafe (have to buy/ carry around an adapter)
* no SD card slot (have to buy/ carry around an adapter)
* less hard disk space (have to pay a $600 upgrade to get the same disk space as what I have now - plus I'll still need an external drive)
* same amount of RAM as 5 years ago (which is soldered in)
* no iconic glowing Apple logo on the back
* a gimmicky touch bar which I never look at, because i'm too busy looking at the screen as touch-typers do
The one saving grace is the thunderbolt 3 port which is now almost standard. This means I can get a cheaper laptop, and use in theory, an external GPU when I get home. I'm thinking of maybe getting a 13" for portability and an eGPU later for docking reasons, although it sucks I'm stuck with a dual-core i7 compared to the quad core I have now. I dual boot Windows for work which means I need 1TB of space for the OS and probably an external drive as well. So still, it's expensive series of compromises.
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I share your annoyances at some of these points, but some of the others just sound like gripes for griping sake.
The adapters you need to replicate the ports in a 2012 are pretty cheap.
I'd like Magsafe too, but if it was an engineering tradeoff to either have TB3 charging or Magsafe, I'll take the TB3. I love the convenience of just having a one cable hookup.
I miss my SD card slot too, but can't disagree with removing it. In 2 years, I doubt an SD card is going to be useful to me. I'll have moved onto the much faster XD card formats. Technology moves fast. I'm moving with it.
You can't compare 5400rpm HDD storage to SSD storage.
I have my complaints about the current product lineup too, but I don't agree with your premise. Less than 10 years ago I needed to have both a Mac Pro tower and a laptop so I could have enough power to get my work done and portability too. Now I only need a laptop. I don't like that I can't repair my own laptop anymore, but I'm spending far less than I used to on my computer equipment.
I've always had lots of adapters and dongles. I've never had a laptop with enough ports and enough types of ports that I didn't need tons of adapters and extra hubs. USB-C is a painful transition to be sure, but one that I fully support.
Because macOS is not free. Updates are, but your base license is not. It is factored into the price of the Mac.
How much do you think macOS is worth?
How much do you think macOS is worth?
There are two answers to the question, "Why are MBPs so overpriced?"
The first one is a rub off. They're 'overpriced' just because people pay that price to them. Just because they are Apple. Apple Tax. Yada Yada.
However, here is the second answer, that can stand some reason.
I have always been proudly amazed at the quality of the hardware. Have you ever opened an HP/ DELL and looked at their PCB? I have looked at my 2011 Macbook Pro and I'd gladly pay the price just because of the quality of hardware.
Next up, 'innovation' is not just outward 'features' that the masses can use and see and boast about. Apple's strength is the inward-lying innovation they use in their products. Sure, people can argue that it doesn't matter to them if the Macbook had or had not a tiered battery. But, the fact that it does, means a tangible outward experience for the user, whether they realise or not. This 'innovation' costs R&D money and it goes first from Apple's pockets, then recovered from consumers. Again, I'm happy they 'innovate' the way they deem fit.
About Macbook Pro 2016+ issues with USB-C: if it were left to consumers, we'd still be having Parallel and VGA ports in laptops just because. Admit it, USB-A, the absence of which is such a frustration for some, is being overblown. When you talk about buying dongles, why not just buy fresh cables? Are you complaining about removal of parallel ports from printers as having to buy dongles for your old cables? I'm surprised that such a large populace in the world is looking at this whole USB-C thing wrong. Yes, you're looking at it wrong. Instead of getting dongles, get new cables. Lack of card slot? My card slot in 2011 stopped working 10.8 onwards - laptop came with 10.7 and working card slot. It's just about moving forward towards something and that is bound to give some headaches in the meanwhile.
Then comes the software. The macintosh experience is software that people use daily. They don't interact with hardware that much than the software. This is one of the reasons Mac is priced high, because it comes with macOS, a system software that Apple has invested a lot in. You're forgetting hundreds of dollars worth for getting a legal copy of Windows. Suppose Apple gave you just the notebook, I'm sure they could shave off $500-700-1000 easy, if they were into giving 3-4 variants of macOS.
Don't know when will this whole overpriced argument die its death for what it's worth.
The first one is a rub off. They're 'overpriced' just because people pay that price to them. Just because they are Apple. Apple Tax. Yada Yada.
However, here is the second answer, that can stand some reason.
I have always been proudly amazed at the quality of the hardware. Have you ever opened an HP/ DELL and looked at their PCB? I have looked at my 2011 Macbook Pro and I'd gladly pay the price just because of the quality of hardware.
Next up, 'innovation' is not just outward 'features' that the masses can use and see and boast about. Apple's strength is the inward-lying innovation they use in their products. Sure, people can argue that it doesn't matter to them if the Macbook had or had not a tiered battery. But, the fact that it does, means a tangible outward experience for the user, whether they realise or not. This 'innovation' costs R&D money and it goes first from Apple's pockets, then recovered from consumers. Again, I'm happy they 'innovate' the way they deem fit.
About Macbook Pro 2016+ issues with USB-C: if it were left to consumers, we'd still be having Parallel and VGA ports in laptops just because. Admit it, USB-A, the absence of which is such a frustration for some, is being overblown. When you talk about buying dongles, why not just buy fresh cables? Are you complaining about removal of parallel ports from printers as having to buy dongles for your old cables? I'm surprised that such a large populace in the world is looking at this whole USB-C thing wrong. Yes, you're looking at it wrong. Instead of getting dongles, get new cables. Lack of card slot? My card slot in 2011 stopped working 10.8 onwards - laptop came with 10.7 and working card slot. It's just about moving forward towards something and that is bound to give some headaches in the meanwhile.
Then comes the software. The macintosh experience is software that people use daily. They don't interact with hardware that much than the software. This is one of the reasons Mac is priced high, because it comes with macOS, a system software that Apple has invested a lot in. You're forgetting hundreds of dollars worth for getting a legal copy of Windows. Suppose Apple gave you just the notebook, I'm sure they could shave off $500-700-1000 easy, if they were into giving 3-4 variants of macOS.
Don't know when will this whole overpriced argument die its death for what it's worth.
Or just get USB-A to USB-C adapters. They're cheap. I have four of them. Two of them aren't in use. I have one in my laptop bag and one in my car just in case I need one.
As a side benefit of everyone suddenly needing adapters and dongles, there has been a groundswell of really nice hubs becoming available so those of us who've always needed lots of adapters have plenty of choice all of a sudden.
About that USB C thing. I kind of used to think like you. That USB C is just a transition, Apple is just accelerating it, just buy new cables for everything.
However, experience quickly taught me that this is simply not a valid solution.
By that I mean, let's say hypothetically you have an USB C mouse, an USB C thumb drive and an USB C SDCard reader.
You have 2 USB C port on the nTB MBP, and one is used for charging. So you only have one usable port left(it's the computer I own)
One easy solution would be to use a simple USB C hub to multiply your number of USB C ports to plug everything at the same time. The kind of hub you could find literally everywhere for USB A.
The problem is : THIS PRODUCT DOESN'T EXIST. Neither on Amazon or Monoprice you can find a simple USB C Hub to get more USB C port. Every single adapter you will find will multiply a single USB C port into a ******** of USB A port, HDMI/VGA, Ethernet, SD Card and if you are lucky 1 USB C port for power in.
So basically, right now, even if you converted all your devices and cables to USB C ones, you would run very fast into that simple ecosystem limitation. It simply wouldn't work the minute you needed to plug 1 device more than your MBP have (and you have to count the fact you need 1 port for charging). It's literally the worst thing you could do, to convert everything to USB C.
If you have multiple USB devices you wish to keep using, your only solution is really a big dongle to create a variety of ports and keep using USB A devices.
All of this made me realize that the future with "All USB C peripherals and cables without dongles" won't ever happen.