I could be wrong, but doesn't OS X cache to as much RAM as possible? So if you're working for a while with different stuff open OS X is caching as much as it can to be as quick as possible when switching back to an app that's been running in the background for a while. For example, I have 8 Gb in my 2011 13" Pro. I don't do a lot of demanding stuff, but if I work in word, PowerPoint, preview, and Firefox for a while I may have 2.5-3 Gb active RAM, 3.5-4 Gb free, and only 900 or so MB inactive (not being used at all). So OS X is going to use as much RAM as possible. 100 bucks is really nothing and totally worth it to double the RAM that cannot be upgraded later.
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Why are people scared of 4GB of RAM?
- Thread starter Kendo
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I recognize that we may be the exception to the rule... but... I'm using a 4 year old MBP to type this, my wife is using a 1st generation MBA (so what, 5 years old?) as I type this. She does have a 1 year old MBP for her home office... but we are using her old 1st generation MBP (so what, 6 - 7 years old?) for some light media duties. The computer is fine, but she literally wore out the keyboard on the old MBP. And my last generation iBook was, until recently, still bopping along keeping a friend's young kid happy.
for a few reasons
99% of the time I get the maxed out ram and the one time I didn't with this 2010 iMac, I've been paying for it with constant beach balls whenever I do video conversion. I'm stuck with that amount of ram because the Apple ram will not come out and I cannot get this to an authorized dealer to upgrade the ram (won't bore you with the whys.)
Adobe CS and Lion are memory hogs (as is Safari), so if you do anything beyond surfing the web, emails, light word processing and light consumption (music, movies) - you might find yourself maxed out pretty quickly.
The fact that Apple doesn't give you a choice after purchase is another reason why upgrading might be a good idea.
I'm trying to hold off on buying an Apple laptop until the battery life is much better (hopefully next year.). So regardless of what I get, the ram will be maxed out. For me, that's one less stress to worry about down the road.
Some folks don't need it and that's great, but I do. So not scared, just learned the hard way, 4gb is not enough for what I do.
99% of the time I get the maxed out ram and the one time I didn't with this 2010 iMac, I've been paying for it with constant beach balls whenever I do video conversion. I'm stuck with that amount of ram because the Apple ram will not come out and I cannot get this to an authorized dealer to upgrade the ram (won't bore you with the whys.)
Adobe CS and Lion are memory hogs (as is Safari), so if you do anything beyond surfing the web, emails, light word processing and light consumption (music, movies) - you might find yourself maxed out pretty quickly.
The fact that Apple doesn't give you a choice after purchase is another reason why upgrading might be a good idea.
I'm trying to hold off on buying an Apple laptop until the battery life is much better (hopefully next year.). So regardless of what I get, the ram will be maxed out. For me, that's one less stress to worry about down the road.
Some folks don't need it and that's great, but I do. So not scared, just learned the hard way, 4gb is not enough for what I do.
I use my computer regularly for all things light. Mostly I have the following applications running:
- Dashboard with about 5 widgets
- Skype (only to chat via typing)
- Safari
- MPlayerX because I spend most of my day watching lectures
- Preview or Adobe PDF reader X....
Free Ram = 1.26GB....So your 2.5GB claim is far below Also even right now it shows Page outs = 8MB and Swap 1.7MB....I woke up my machine from Hibernation after the battery died last night and has been on for 1Day 1hr as up-time since last full shutdown.
Once I start reaching 2-5 tabs on safari and launch "Stickies" app as well as iTunes along side my above mentioned apps (Note MplayerX isn't playing a video 100% of the time, it spends a fair amount of time in "Paused" state or no videos loaded when I haven't launched the next one yet)...I start to use about 200MB of Swap.
I think those that are getting 8GB is perfect and lucky. I didn't have the option but I sure would hop on board for the 8GB. If I were to run VMWare Fusion Win 7 right now I would be paging out about 500MB-1GB immediately. I had a MBP prior to getting my 4GB 2011 MBAir and at 8GB even though I did more intensive stuff I would still page out every now and then but it was and is much more workable without looking at readings to see whats going on where.
Because the OS also takes significant amount of Ram as well as the Graphic card taking about 384MB of Ram as well...your left with quiet less to work with and therefore in the near future the 4GB will be the new 2GB pretty much.
- Dashboard with about 5 widgets
- Skype (only to chat via typing)
- Safari
- MPlayerX because I spend most of my day watching lectures
- Preview or Adobe PDF reader X....
Free Ram = 1.26GB....So your 2.5GB claim is far below Also even right now it shows Page outs = 8MB and Swap 1.7MB....I woke up my machine from Hibernation after the battery died last night and has been on for 1Day 1hr as up-time since last full shutdown.
Once I start reaching 2-5 tabs on safari and launch "Stickies" app as well as iTunes along side my above mentioned apps (Note MplayerX isn't playing a video 100% of the time, it spends a fair amount of time in "Paused" state or no videos loaded when I haven't launched the next one yet)...I start to use about 200MB of Swap.
I think those that are getting 8GB is perfect and lucky. I didn't have the option but I sure would hop on board for the 8GB. If I were to run VMWare Fusion Win 7 right now I would be paging out about 500MB-1GB immediately. I had a MBP prior to getting my 4GB 2011 MBAir and at 8GB even though I did more intensive stuff I would still page out every now and then but it was and is much more workable without looking at readings to see whats going on where.
Because the OS also takes significant amount of Ram as well as the Graphic card taking about 384MB of Ram as well...your left with quiet less to work with and therefore in the near future the 4GB will be the new 2GB pretty much.
I know people keep saying 100 is not a lot of money, but it is. It is 10% of the purchase, and depending on your situation (see my post above) it may "cost" you $145. That is about 15% of a purchase.
Apple has designed and priced their products in a way that encourages users to upgrade to products they do not need. The devices cannot be upgraded in the future, and the prices are designed to convince consumers that buying more is a better "value", so consumers buy more storage and RAM just in case. You walk in the door planning to spend 999 for a Macbook (notice that it is below that four digit barrier) and you walk out spending several hundred more, because you thought it was a better "deal" to buy the 13" ultimate. I am not knocking Apple or consumers for their behavior, but let's not kid ourselves about what is going on here. We are being upsold.
The worst part of it is that users convince themselves that they will use the computer for several years, when actual consumers probably purchase one about two years, which means you are buying a computer for a future use that will not occur. On top of that, people purchase a computer designed to perform the most labor intensive tasks of applications they might only rarely use. In my experience (subjective, of course) a lot of people would have nearly the same user experience with a machine from five years ago, because most of what they do involves Word, email, and the Internet.
In the end, you just need to open your eyes, look at yourself, look at your actual use, and buy a computer that makes sense. Unfortunately, many of our purchasing decisions really are "no-brainers" because people don't use their brains to look critically at what they are doing.
Apple has designed and priced their products in a way that encourages users to upgrade to products they do not need. The devices cannot be upgraded in the future, and the prices are designed to convince consumers that buying more is a better "value", so consumers buy more storage and RAM just in case. You walk in the door planning to spend 999 for a Macbook (notice that it is below that four digit barrier) and you walk out spending several hundred more, because you thought it was a better "deal" to buy the 13" ultimate. I am not knocking Apple or consumers for their behavior, but let's not kid ourselves about what is going on here. We are being upsold.
The worst part of it is that users convince themselves that they will use the computer for several years, when actual consumers probably purchase one about two years, which means you are buying a computer for a future use that will not occur. On top of that, people purchase a computer designed to perform the most labor intensive tasks of applications they might only rarely use. In my experience (subjective, of course) a lot of people would have nearly the same user experience with a machine from five years ago, because most of what they do involves Word, email, and the Internet.
In the end, you just need to open your eyes, look at yourself, look at your actual use, and buy a computer that makes sense. Unfortunately, many of our purchasing decisions really are "no-brainers" because people don't use their brains to look critically at what they are doing.
FWIW, I have an older iMac and I've used OWC memory to take it up to it's maximum of 6 gigs. It's a simple process to remove the existing RAM and add new.
I agree that we are being upsold but I disagree with the above statement. I am in the camp that believes that a laptop with no upgrades does still last several years. I bought a 15" powerbook (1.5Ghz/512MB/80GB/ComboDrive) 7 years ago and it still does everything I need today. I will probably buy a 4GB 13" Air and I expect that to last several years too.
I got 4gb of ram in my new MBP. Still ordered 16gb to support future software needs. Besides it was only $100
thanks, didn't work though 
kodeman53: I tried (2x myself and a third time with a computer tech I know. He also couldn't get that Apple ram out) You're right, it's very simple but the Apple ram is jammed in so tight, no amount of released it: the plastic tabs that are supposed to make that easy were no help. I put in OWC ram in as well and the system freaked. Annoys me since I was hoping to hang onto this for at least another 2-3 years.
Thanks for the head up.
Back to the thread at hand, knowing me, if I go to an Apple store now I may walk out with a fully loaded MBA ... so I'm trying to avoid that. Want to see how I can handle this one class this semester, if I really need a laptop then I'll jump sooner rather than later and it'll be for the machine with the maximum ram.
kodeman53: I tried (2x myself and a third time with a computer tech I know. He also couldn't get that Apple ram out) You're right, it's very simple but the Apple ram is jammed in so tight, no amount of released it: the plastic tabs that are supposed to make that easy were no help. I put in OWC ram in as well and the system freaked. Annoys me since I was hoping to hang onto this for at least another 2-3 years.
Thanks for the head up.
Back to the thread at hand, knowing me, if I go to an Apple store now I may walk out with a fully loaded MBA ... so I'm trying to avoid that. Want to see how I can handle this one class this semester, if I really need a laptop then I'll jump sooner rather than later and it'll be for the machine with the maximum ram.
It certainly happens! I know people with old white, plastic Macbooks. I have computers from the early 2000s that I am still using every day for something or other (go XP!). So, I am not saying it is true for everyone. But, I think we are a rarity. I know many, many more people who upgrade every two years or so.
I have been using 4gb in my 2009 mbp with no noticeable issues.
On my new 2012 air 13 with 4gb, with safari, mail, excel, word and preview open I seem to be almost using the full 4gb.
Returning the comp and getting the 8gb. For $100 seems a reasonable upgrade.
On my new 2012 air 13 with 4gb, with safari, mail, excel, word and preview open I seem to be almost using the full 4gb.
Returning the comp and getting the 8gb. For $100 seems a reasonable upgrade.
15% is a lot when the amount is much higher. That just reiterates, that if you cannot afford a RAM upgrade, you should not be buying a $1000 dollar laptop. ****, if you have to finance this (not choose to, but have to) then you should not buy it.
Here's my activity monitor. I am not a power user but I do have itunes, Chrome, Skype, Finder, and Outlook open.
kind of like other said, lion will use the ram if it is there. Others doing the same thing with only 4gb available would say about 1.7 used doing the same tasks
Prior to knowing the 2012 specs, the general consensus was "Don't stick with 2GB, get the 4GB upgrade". If asked if 4GB would work fine, the general response was "Yes, that'll do you just fine".
Now that 8GB is an option, it's "Don't stick with 4GB, get the 8GB . . . " etc. even though it's only a few weeks later.
If tomorrow there was a new model with 8GB default, we could do this all over again.
A better question, but one you won't get an answer to, is at what point people would stop recommending the RAM upgrade.
Now that 8GB is an option, it's "Don't stick with 4GB, get the 8GB . . . " etc. even though it's only a few weeks later.
If tomorrow there was a new model with 8GB default, we could do this all over again.
A better question, but one you won't get an answer to, is at what point people would stop recommending the RAM upgrade.
that is very true, but not b.c 4gb won't do, but because it is forever. If the option is there to upgrade, it is a good idea for most since they cannot do it later. It really is about knowing yourself. If you upgrade yearly, the upgrade is useless. If you keep for 3+ years, it is worth looking into
But yet again, RAM does not determine how long your computer lasts. What determines that is YOU. Whether YOU can stand not to upgrade or whether YOU spill a glass of water on it, etc. I truly believe the innards of a computer are irrelevant when you're talking about longevity. Now obviously you can say the amount of RAM *is* the driving force as to whether you can stand not to upgrade, but I firmly believe that one's natural behavior trumps one's surroundings. Put a lazy kid at Harvard, he's still going to be lazy. That is why some people (like me) will drive their computer to death - whatever it is - every time. Yet people like you will upgrade every 2 years, whatever machine you have.
i mean that is a very literal meaning of a computer lasting. For me, when i start to notice the slow down or meet the minimum requirements that is the end of that computer. Having more ram to meet that quota can extend the life
. I do see your side too, but to buy a brand new computer and a year later (possibly) just meeting the minimums would piss me off.I upgraded to the 8 GB, and to be completely honest, I wish 16 GB had been an option on the 2012 Air.
Best Buy quit doing the GC promo a week ago.
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When Apple makes it user upgradable.
So....never
Before the 2012 specs were known, if I asked "How long will a 4GB 2011 Air be reasonably good for" many would have said "A few years". If it was true 8 weeks ago, it's still true now.
If 4GB isn't enough for 3-4 years, then people should have said "Only buy an Air if you can upgrade yearly, otherwise it's not worth it and you should get something else". But no one was saying that.
In other words, there's a confusion between "8GB is a smart upgrade because of the good price and because you can only get it at point of purchase, so why not?" and "4GB is only enough RAM for a year or two".
my post says it is good for 3 years...anything longer and you would want an upgrade b.c you will be hitting minimum requirements.
There is the key.
4 GB is plenty for even the most demanding laptop uses today, but it might not be enough if you expect demanding use in 2016.
When I got my MBA in August it did not offer 8 GB, mostly because 8 GB was unheard of. But things change, and with a MBA you get no redos on how much RAM you install.
Apple has moved everyone else including their competitors into a better world full of better tools, but they also have moved us into a "throw-away" era for these devices. It is analogous to the disappearance of the shade-tree mechanic in the automotive world. Just like they can no longer tinker under the hood, we can't add RAM or change the battery. iPad and MBP retina screens are glued down and unrepairable.
I made the mistake of future-proofing my last laptop purchase, a 12.1" aluminum PB in 2003, too much by getting all the bells and whistles. It is still running fine 9 years later, but to move forward in the Apple ecosystem I needed a new one by 8 years in. Were I not disenfranchised from an OS newer than Leopard and the app store and upgrades to iWork and iLife being unavailable, I would still be pretty happy with the PB.
I can't complain about 8 years use from a PB, especially one still going strong, but I think those days are over. We are now in the era of the disposable device, and future-proofing takes on new strategic approaches, and makes 8 GB a less intelligent choice.
solid post. Also, what year mac do you have to have to be able to run Mountain lion? 08 or 09? That makes a 3 year old laptop incapable of running the newest OSX no matter how "beefy" it is