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My car's electric plug maxes out at 400 watts would probably trip the fuse

I can't get over the fact that they sell well. There are some Macs at Microcenter where the inventory levels are normally lower.

The funny thing about Microcenter is that you can see people walking out the door pushing carts with several hundred to several thousands of dollars of PCs, laptops or PC components.

Asus makes the ROG Strix Scar 18 inch laptop with similar specs to the MSI Titan 18. They are sold out at my store. I think that the reason is that there's a sale on them for $1,500 off bring the price to only $4K. It boggles my mind but I'm sure that it makes perfect sense for the people that buy these things.
 
Hello,
something that I've noticed is that Windows PCs are pretty much as expensive as Macs these days, but why?
And most PCs have 16GB of RAM. At least in electronic stores, but the difference used to be huge. I remember Dell with 3GB of RAM and 250GB HDD cost as much as MacBook 4,1 with 1GB of RAM and 128 HDD and the specs of PCs used to be a lot better.

Nowadays most computers have 16GB of RAM and cost as much as Macs. Is it because of Apple?
That's just your bias. There are Windows PCs that are as expensive as iPads, starting from $300. GPD sells a few.
 
I don’t know about pc makers changed their mind. But long time ago, when I started using Macs I decided not to type and post everything that came to my mind.
 
Also, I realised that this might be my location too, because I've been kind of browsing different PCs from different tech stores and on Google where you can still see the old prices.
The difference was still huge. I remember MacBook Air 64GB /4GB costing a 1000€ back in 2011 and for that money thin Dell laptops ( I don't remember the models ) seemed to be much better deal. Nowadays Dell and Macs cost as much, at least the base models, but in the past it was easier to decide, because MacBook Air 64 / 4GB was even low for Lion.

Also, I agree that PCs have discounts all the time and outside of the US Macs don't seem to get discounts. Maybe if you're lucky you get 20€ off during Christmas, while others have much better discounts during Christmas etc.
 
I can't remember the interview that was posted on these forums recently, where Steve Jobs was asked why Apple's computers were so expensive, but he referred to it being, PC's that were poorly spec'd, that made it appear so.
Perhaps that is the case now, that PC's are less ugly, and more competitive with Mac's, and we are seeing the result.
 
I can't remember the interview that was posted on these forums recently, where Steve Jobs was asked why Apple's computers were so expensive, but he referred to it being, PC's that were poorly spec'd, that made it appear so.
Perhaps that is the case now, that PC's are less ugly, and more competitive with Mac's, and we are seeing the result.
The whole premise of OP is wrong, I can get higher spec windows machine than Mac’s for around 500 $ on Costco or Best Buy. Apple doesn’t even compete in most of the PC segment if you go by specs. Nothing has changed much, the range is still same on windows.
 
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Nonsense. Apple is the only 4th largest computer vendor and not in any position to dictate PC pricing. Plus of course Mac OS versus Win OS means the wannabe comparison is literally trying to compare Apples versus lemons.
You can’t look at overall, you need to break it down by niche/sector/price point. Apple has no real business arm and little in the way of desktop presence. They are very influential in the laptop domain. The MBA has been the de facto standard laptop in a number of demographics for a decade.
 
Hello,
something that I've noticed is that Windows PCs are pretty much as expensive as Macs these days, but why?
And most PCs have 16GB of RAM. At least in electronic stores, but the difference used to be huge. I remember Dell with 3GB of RAM and 250GB HDD cost as much as MacBook 4,1 with 1GB of RAM and 128 HDD and the specs of PCs used to be a lot better.

Nowadays most computers have 16GB of RAM and cost as much as Macs. Is it because of Apple?
Window pc are for gamers who prefer mix and match hardware for top performance and are willing to pay the premium.

MacBooks are of fixed hardware configuration, more suitable for casual uses and those who prefer stylistic looking gears.
 
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That's just your bias. There are Windows PCs that are as expensive as iPads, starting from $300. GPD sells a few.
Yes this is accurate. My Grandma keeps buying these every year or so. She needs to because they are so bad she gets fed up and gets a new one. She could have gotten a $1,000 laptop 6 years ago and still use it. Those ultra cheap systems are just not worth it, but you are right they do exist.
 
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The entry level 12” iBook G4 was $999 in 2005 (20 years ago 😱). The entry level 13” MacBook Air M4 is $999 today. The 17” iMac G5 back then started at $1299 and the 24” iMac M4 is the same cost today. PC makers have increased prices over the years due to inflation and component cost increases. Apple has done a really good job keeping Mac prices steady. For everything you get with a Mac they’re really a great value.
 
You can’t look at overall, you need to break it down by niche/sector/price point. Apple has no real business arm and little in the way of desktop presence. They are very influential in the laptop domain. The MBA has been the de facto standard laptop in a number of demographics for a decade.
Why the need to break it down? This was about Apple being in a position to dictate pc pricing.

Macs are still used only 10-15% world wide. Windows PC use is ca. 73% world wide. It does not matter how you break it down per niche/sector/price point, Macs are certainly not the de facto standard on the world stage. Maybe in some niche markets, but using the same logic one can argue that Windows laptops/PCs are the de facto standard. Apple may be able to dictate pricing of its own Macbooks/Macs, but this has no effect whatsoever on the price of (Windows/Linux) pcs/laptops globally.
 
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Several years ago, PC laptop makers used to give you 32 GB of RAM and 1 TB SSD in the midrange models as they had to give you something more because Apple Silicon was so good (and Apple's build quality was better too). What later happened is that the PC makers upped their game to make stuff with better features and now they're charging for it.

The PC companies also span the market from $200 Chromebooks to $6,000 gaming monsters like the MSI Titan 18. But there are a lot of sales in the $600 - $1,000 area for people on a budget and they give you fewer features so that the people that want those features will spend between $1,000 and $2,000 for them. If they have the money and the features are worth it to them, they'll go upmarket or add options.

The PC world also has a crazy number of discounts, coupons and sales. I saw a $1,800 ProArt PX 13 for sale for $1,250 at Best Buy three weeks ago. After the sale was over, it went back to the normal price of $1,800. Could you ever imagine getting 30% off a MacBook on a current year model? I've never run into a deal like that.

So if you want a nicer display, more RAM, more SSD, the ability to add SSD or RAM, then you're going to pay for it. The upgrades will cost less than what Apple charges for RAM and SSD. I received a Lenovo Yoga this week and going from 16 to 32 GB of RAM was $50. Going from 512 GB to 1 TB SSD was $50. I can upgrade the SSD to 2 TB buy just buying the NVMe SSD myself and replacing the one that came with it.

The model I got was about $2K. I paid $1,514 after coupons and discounts. Last year's model dropped to $1,300 after this year's model was launched. They cleared them out at fire sale prices. So the time of the year can matter a lot on the price you pay.

There is a lot of cheap crap in the PC world. I'm in r/Lenovo and people there complain about their laptops failing after six months or a year. But you find out that they're in other countries where the weather is a lot warmer and they don't have air condition or they paid $400 for the laptop. I don't think that I'd touch a lot of PC models on the lower end of the price spectrum if I wanted it to last more than a few years.

Intel put the RAM on the SoC for Lunar Lake so your RAM options are limited and you can't add your own. If you want to add your own, you probably need to look at 14th gen Intel or an AMD laptop. I am personally pleased with the Yoga I bought - 14 inches, good battery life, runs cool, 32 GB of RAM, 4K UHD OLED and 1 TB SSD for $1.5K. The build quality and usability feel comparable to my M1 Pro MacBook Pro 16. The MacBook Pro has better speakers, bigger screen, and the performance is comparable. The M4 MacBook Pro would blow it out of the water but I don't need heavy performance for this laptop.

I think that there are competitive products in the Windows space for Macs today but the huge problem is product discovery. If you want to buy a MacBook, the options are relatively small and you know you're going to get great battery life, performance, build quality and support. It is much simpler than to look at Dell, HP, Samsung, Acer, Lenovo, MSI, Razer, Asus, GPD and other brands - each with their own records on build quality, support, warranty policies, etc. And some of these companies have a very wide range of products so figuring out where to start when they have five models with comparable specs in different price ranges means you have to figure out where they did the cost cutting.
32Gb/1Tb in a Windows laptop as a standard? That used to be and still is a premium option. I've owned many, many windows laptop (privately and professionally) and never have I seen a 32Gb/1Tb as a standard configuration for 'midrange' laptops.

I think it is more likely that prices went up across the board for many reasons, and Apple has been under pressure not to raise their higher prices for fear of pricing themselves out of the market. This means premium Windows laptops are now similarly priced to Apple laptops. But you can get many much cheaper laptops. They're made of plastic but will do the job too :)
 
Hello,
something that I've noticed is that Windows PCs are pretty much as expensive as Macs these days, but why?
And most PCs have 16GB of RAM. At least in electronic stores, but the difference used to be huge. I remember Dell with 3GB of RAM and 250GB HDD cost as much as MacBook 4,1 with 1GB of RAM and 128 HDD and the specs of PCs used to be a lot better.

Nowadays most computers have 16GB of RAM and cost as much as Macs. Is it because of Apple?
You can buy Windows laptop PC for around $200. That’s significantly cheaper than even the cheapest MacBook.

There’s always been high-end windows computers around. Even 20 years ago you could spend $4000 for a Windows laptop.

If you want hardware comparable to a Mac, the price is going to be similar. I don’t mean just processor and memory, but the display and chassis as well.
 
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Back in the day (one or two decades ago), people always asked me what the best Windows laptop was to buy. They wanted a solid investment that would last years.

I always said the same thing – Dell XPS range, or anything from Lenovo. For general purpose use. Sure, there was MSI and Alienware for the higher-end gaming PCs but that brought compromises for battery life, plus they tended to have silly teenager-approved designs.

Prices for these Dell and Lenovo laptops tended to be around a third to quarter less than the equivalent Mac.

I'm unsure this has changed, to be honest.
 
Nowadays most computers have 16GB of RAM and cost as much as Macs. Is it because of Apple?
Components have increased due to a number of factors, including Nvidia raising their GPU prices to a degree that most people can only afford a xx50 card

When you could go to your local Microcenter back in the day and buy a 2090 ti for 1,000 is long gone, go there to day and the 5090 is over 3,000 dollars. I get not everyone is going to get the top end GPU, but it shows how insane the pricing has gotten.


That's just your bias. There are Windows PCs that are as expensive as iPads, starting from $300. GPD sells a few.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Good luck on running anything other then a single instance of chrome.

The OP doesn't have a bias, rather your mistaken understanding that a $300 dollar PCs are, popular, sell well and are capable of handling most tasks.
 
Interesting thread. Lets look at the corporate side.

We mostly run windows laptops at work and the preferred supplier is Dell. Their machines are garbage. I've currently got a Precision 5690. Ultra 7 165H, 64Gb of RAM, 500Gb disk, 16" OLED screen, RTX 1000 in it. I just priced it up on Dell and it's £3308. The CPU in it is pretty flaccid, it runs hot as hell and the display isn't very good at all. Glad I didn't pay for it. The cheaper you go the worse they get.

Now in context I could actually really do my job on a macbook air with 24Gb of RAM quite happily. But nooooo, preferred supplier and enrolment and uninformed purchasing departments run the show. And they buy Dell because of the discounts offered, not the sticker price. Even if the end user is less productive and it costs more in ancillary costs.

The bottom end PCs are total waste of money. Most of them are very poorly engineered and cost cut and you end up with a turd. It's much better to buy a 3-4 years old $300 refurb enterprise laptop than a new $300 one.
 
People now value products that offer them versatility. Windows laptops are no longer stick to basic and thus offers top-notch quality. Also, it's not mandatory that an iPhone user should buy a Mac as well!
 
People now value products that offer them versatility. Windows laptops are no longer stick to basic and thus offers top-notch quality. Also, it's not mandatory that an iPhone user should buy a Mac as well!

One advantage that Windows has is the wide variety of products. If you want cheap, you can get it. If you want top-notch build quality, you can get it. There are far more sizes, shapes and configurations possible.

I was pretty surprised at how much I like the newer Windows products and how straightforward it has been to get what I have on macOS on Windows. It definitely took a decent amount of effort but I feel comfortable enough bring a MacBook or Windows laptop on a trip with me.

I do think that one of the big advantages of Macs is that less choice makes it easier to make a decision.
 
Aren't they referring to a socket in the car where you can plug in normal 110V or 220V devices?

You can draw 1200w @110v on a standard 15a circuit without overloading. See every space heater on the market.

Edit: Never mind. Read your replay wrong.
 
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