Why are Windows PCs pretty much as expensive as Macs these days?

[Mr_Brightside_@]

I disagree with the premise and wonder what model(s) or ranges OP is looking at.
My org uses Windows, and if I could get Macs at the same, or even similar prices, I would (I'm IT).
We have three iMacs and they were donations.
Last month, I got 6 Dell 15 Laptops (Model: DC15250, I7, Windows 11 Pro, 16 GB RAM 1 TB SSD for $799.99 each). For the office work they will be doing, these are nice laptops.
A 15-inch Air with the same RAM and storage is $2,299.00 right now - I could almost get three of the Dells with that!

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Good luck on running anything other then a single instance of chrome.

The OP doesn't have a bias, rather your mistaken understanding that a $300 dollar PCs are, popular, sell well and are capable of handling most tasks.

My sister got a Ryzen laptop with 16gb ram and a 512gb SSD on Prime day for $279. It's a lot more capable than you give it credit for. It does everything, and more, than she needs from a computer.

 

[JohnRckr]

Because Windows PCs are far more powerful than MacBooks, have same build quality and last just as long.

 

[Rradcircless]

If other companies see that they can charge +100% markup on RAM because of Apple they will do so.

I feel like every time I watch a spec comparison, the most premium laptops pale in comparison to MacBooks, to say nothing of the software experience. I feel like, except for gaming laptops, there really is no Windows laptop that compares to a Mac.

 

[txmike418]

But Apple has essentially been doing that and the other companies haven't really followed in any meaningful way so I'm not sure this is true at all.


But other OEMs managed to make 16GB the standard (as many have pointed out many times here) without Apple's leadership here (also 512GB) so I'm still not sure this is true.

This just seems like meaningless conjecture.

Most mini PCs have 32gb as a standard offering with 1tb ssd and able to stay reasonably priced

 

[pshufd]

I feel like every time I watch a spec comparison, the most premium laptops pale in comparison to MacBooks, to say nothing of the software experience. I feel like, except for gaming laptops, there really is no Windows laptop that compares to a Mac.

As with most things, it depends on what you do. Apple currently has the fastest processors but the vast majority of people don't need a Threadripper, 9950X or M4 Max chip for their computing.

On the other hand, you already have OLED displays on Windows PCs. You already have Gen 5 NVMe on some Windows PCs. You have upgradable RAM and SSD on many Windows PCs. And RAM and SSD are the pain points on Apple Silicon MacBooks.

In my case, there's no MacBook that compares to a Windows x86 laptop. I have an x86 program that runs really poorly on Apple Silicon because it runs on macOS via WINE and Rosetta 2. And a translation layer on top of an emulation layer means that the program runs more slowly on an M4 MacBook than a mid-range x86 laptop. It also uses up 8 GB of RAM on Apple Silicon while it only uses 1 GB of RAM on Windows x86. Rosetta 2 is going away in 2027 so I need my software vendor to port to Apple Silicon but they are taking their sweet time.

The 4k OLED screen also aligns with my Mac Studio desktop setup. Where is the 4k option on MacBooks? I bought a 4k portable monitor for use with the MacBook Pro 16 but it's a bit of a nuisance moving all of my windows from the internal display to the external display.

 

[bearda]

They are significantly more expensive then most of Apple's line, even more outrageous is Microsoft's new surface keyboard is $500. Yes you read that correct.

To be fair, that's the version that includes the stylus. If you start comparing the price of the large iPad Pro keyboard and the Pencil Pro you end up paying $429 for the Apple equivalent. Sounds like they're in a similar ballpark to me.

 

[SpotOnT]

Was this happening before? And if so, is it them not doubling their specs or Apple moved closer to the line? I'm very curious if there's meaningful data on this.

My take is that Apple is now one of the largest laptop manufacturers (at least in the US) and hence sets the trend.

A few decades ago, Dell, HP, etc. were all an order of magnitude or more larger than Apple. So Dell, HP, etc. set the trends.

Also worth noting that the average PC laptop today, has a better build quality than the average PC laptop of a few decades ago. Of course fewer people are even buying a laptop though. Many can just get by doing all their stuff on their phone.

 

[djcerla]

WinTel Tax

 

[klasma]

32Gb/1Tb in a Windows laptop as a standard? That used to be and still is a premium option.

This Amazon search for “windows laptop” in the $500-700 price range predominantly yields 32+GB/1TB options: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=windows+laptop&rh=p_36:50000-70000&dc=

 

[pshufd]

This Amazon search for “windows laptop” in the $500-700 price range predominantly yields 32+GB/1TB options: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=windows+laptop&rh=p_36:50000-70000&dc=

I noticed that most of the laptops at Costco were 32/1. You could argue that Costco sells in the premium range though. At least at my local store.

What's more the strategy for laptops several years ago was to add a second NVMe if you needed more storage as many had a second slot. Same for RAM. Ultrabooks today are thinner and lighter and may not have the second NVMe slot and may even use the shorter NVMe drives.

There were more 4k options in the past too. I remember the LG Gram 17 had a 4k screen option one year and I think that they're now 2.5K. That was probably trial and error - they offered it and they didn't get a lot of sales.

 

[Donkey Man]

Hello,
something that I've noticed is that Windows PCs are pretty much as expensive as Macs these days, but why?
And most PCs have 16GB of RAM. At least in electronic stores, but the difference used to be huge. I remember Dell with 3GB of RAM and 250GB HDD cost as much as MacBook 4,1 with 1GB of RAM and 128 HDD and the specs of PCs used to be a lot better.

Nowadays most computers have 16GB of RAM and cost as much as Macs. Is it because of Apple?

Simple: they are pretty much as expensive as Macs because, nowadays, they are pretty much as good as (if not better than) Macs, both in terms of hardware and software quality.

The huge Apple innovation and quality delta is no longer there, no thanks to Tim Spindler and his visionless team.

 

[holmesf]

Hello,
something that I've noticed is that Windows PCs are pretty much as expensive as Macs these days, but why?
And most PCs have 16GB of RAM. At least in electronic stores, but the difference used to be huge. I remember Dell with 3GB of RAM and 250GB HDD cost as much as MacBook 4,1 with 1GB of RAM and 128 HDD and the specs of PCs used to be a lot better.

Nowadays most computers have 16GB of RAM and cost as much as Macs. Is it because of Apple?

One thing is that Apple computers have actually gotten much cheaper. If you look at the cost of a low end MacBook over the last 20 years it’s actually stayed exactly the same in nominal dollars … about $999. This means that a new Mac notebook is roughly 40% cheaper in real dollar terms than before (consider inflation). When it comes to the baseline models the Apple “tax” is a thing of the past.

Another thing is that the low end market has been consumed by chromebooks, tablets, and phones. There isn’t as much reason to make super cheap Windows PCs anymore.

But they are still out there. It’s easy for me to find PC deals at $350 or even $299 for middling Windows 11 PC notebooks.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

arguably, it’s a mixture of PC manufacturers trying to get away from the “cheap” labeling placed on them from the horrible reputation of the Netbook/early UltraBook days, the fact that The education market has moved from sub-$500 PC’s to sub-$500 Chromebooks and iPads, and the fact that customers demand more from their laptops these days.
most people that go out of their way to buy a PC laptop that aren’t doing it due to a job requirement are doing it so they can have a machine to do things they can’t on their phone or tablet with, like gaming or coding.
but they don’t want some cheap plastic piece of crap that takes 20 minutes to boot, they want something instant, with a high resolution display, and a decent graphics card. That requires more expensive and better quality hardware.

In short, that cheap “ computers meant for web browsing and nothing really else” market is dominated by tablets and Chromebooks and even smart phones, and people demanded better hardware which costs more money.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Nonsense. Apple is the only 4th largest computer vendor and not in any position to dictate PC pricing.

this is true for phones too, I feel like I see a lot of people say that Apple “is the reason that phones are over $1000 now” but this just could not be further from the truth. Samsung had galaxy Note phones press through that $1000 barrier way before the iPhone X did.

 

[iHorseHead]

One thing is that Apple computers have actually gotten much cheaper. If you look at the cost of a low end MacBook over the last 20 years it’s actually stayed exactly the same in nominal dollars … about $999. This means that a new Mac notebook is roughly 40% cheaper in real dollar terms than before (consider inflation). When it comes to the baseline models the Apple “tax” is a thing of the past.

Another thing is that the low end market has been consumed by chromebooks, tablets, and phones. There isn’t as much reason to make super cheap Windows PCs anymore.

But they are still out there. It’s easy for me to find PC deals at $350 or even $299 for middling Windows 11 PC notebooks.

I get that, but I remember that back in 2010 you got much better hardware at 300€.
For example HP Compaq Presario CQ56-205so. It had 312GB hdd storage and 4gb of RAM and believe it or not, it ran pretty fast and smooth and it came with Windows 7 and was much better deal than a MacBook and same goes for Acers.
Back then the market really wasn't infested with low end PCs.

Nowadays $300 gets you this

In the past it wasn't that bad. Yeah, there was junk you could get at 150€ and it had Windows 7 starter on it but still, I think the situation has gotten worse and I was wondering why.

 

[salamanderjuice]

I get that, but I remember that back in 2010 you got much better hardware at 300€.
For example HP Compaq Presario CQ56-205so. It had 312GB hdd storage and 4gb of RAM and believe it or not, it ran pretty fast and smooth and it came with Windows 7 and was much better deal than a MacBook and same goes for Acers.
Back then the market really wasn't infested with low end PCs.

Nowadays $300 gets you this

In the past it wasn't that bad. Yeah, there was junk you could get at 150€ and it had Windows 7 starter on it but still, I think the situation has gotten worse and I was wondering why.

That's a $400 AUD PC at retail, $270 USD at time of release of that video. 300 Euro in 2010 was ~$400 USD. $270 retail is absolutely scraping the bottom of the barrel. If you don't care about CPU performance, then you can get an N95 or N100 laptop with 32GB of RAM and 1TB SSD for less than $400 USD:

https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Backlit-Keyboard-Processor-Fingerprint/dp/B0DWFRRNGX

It will be fine for basic tasks. Pay a bit more and you can get a much better CPU:

NAIKLULU Gaming Laptop,15.6 Inch Laptop Computer,32GB RAM 1TB SSD,AMD Ryzen 5 7430U (up to 4.3Ghz,Beat 5700U),AMD Radeon Graphics,15.6”FHD 1920 * 1080 Display,WiFi 5,BT5.0,Backlit Keyboard

laptop computer

www.amazon.com

 

[Sami13496]

To make them seem equally high-quality, the price has to be on the same level. If they were sold for less, consumers might start wondering why they’re suspiciously cheaper. This isn’t a joke. Perceived quality.

 

[macfacts]

Windows PCs have all price range.

 

[macfacts]

WinTel Tax

"tax" implies overpriced, look up 2024 asus Zephyrus G16

 

[iHorseHead]

Windows PCs have all price range.

Yes, but you used to get a better PC for cheaper.

 

[holmesf]

Yes, but you used to get a better PC for cheaper.

It depends on for what purpose. A lot of it comes down to Apple’s investment in custom silicon and manufacturing processes. They are producing chips with performance and energy efficiency that simply cannot be beat by today’s PCs. Combine that with Apple’s superior build quality and they have become hard to beat on those metrics.

But if we ignore energy efficiency and design and just talk about raw gaming performance. Well, I was able to buy an RTX 5080 mobile gaming laptop with a 20 core Intel 255HX processor, OLED display, 32GB of RAM, and 1TB hard drive on sale for $1825. Even if I decked out a MacBook Pro with M4 Max for $3299 the PC still runs Cyberpunk 2077 up to 50% faster at native resolutions. Moreover the PCs upscaling solution, DLSS, is much more advanced and looks better than MetalFX upscaling. The Mac’s only advantage is that it doesn’t sound like a jet engine while it does it.

 

[Ctrlos]

I've not found there much advantage in having a Mac these days. There are still big commercial apps (Revit) that aren't even available on them and 10 hours battery is more than enough for a day on the road. Apple's attempts to turn MacOS into iOS Desktop haven't gone down well over here. I know Windows 11 is full of bloat but a quick script in Power shell takes care of it all.

 

[adib]

Interesting thread. Lets look at the corporate side.

We mostly run windows laptops at work and the preferred supplier is Dell. Their machines are garbage. I've currently got a Precision 5690. Ultra 7 165H, 64Gb of RAM, 500Gb disk, 16" OLED screen, RTX 1000 in it. I just priced it up on Dell and it's £3308. The CPU in it is pretty flaccid, it runs hot as hell and the display isn't very good at all. Glad I didn't pay for it. The cheaper you go the worse they get.

Using a (hard) disk to boot a laptop in this day and age is already a red flag.

 

[cjsuk]

Using a (hard) disk to boot a laptop in this day and age is already a red flag.

I haven’t had a hard disk for about a decade. It has an SSD. Cheap Kyoxia thing.