Why buy an ACD?

[queshy]

If I had a Mac Pro or even a Mac Mini that was in my house, or in my personal office, I would go with the ACD because of the style. Style is important because you're looking at it for a LONG time, both when youre on your computer and when you're not. In my opinion, it's worth the extra money, because in comparison, the Dell looks cheap and plasticey (sp?). They're probably not adding an iSight because for hte people who like to have two ACDs side by side, it would look kinda funky with 2 cameras. (imo). Go CD!

 

[Maxx Power]

Thanks Maxx Power -- Looks like a fantastic display -- and I am in the market.

Appreicate it much.

Dante

No problem at all, Dante!

Just glad to help.

 

[SavageLLama77]

If I had a Mac Pro or even a Mac Mini that was in my house, or in my personal office, I would go with the ACD because of the style. Style is important because you're looking at it for a LONG time, both when youre on your computer and when you're not. In my opinion, it's worth the extra money, because in comparison, the Dell looks cheap and plasticey (sp?). They're probably not adding an iSight because for hte people who like to have two ACDs side by side, it would look kinda funky with 2 cameras. (imo). Go CD!

I think they would include built in iSights because most people who bought ACDs only have one of them; what sense does it make to sacrifice a brilliant feature for the minority?

 

[TheSpaz]

I think they would include built in iSights because most people who bought ACDs only have one of them; what sense does it make to sacrifice a brilliant feature for the minority?

Okay... everyone... listen to me.

I don't think they'll put iSights in the ACD's because has anyone see how tall they are? Where are they gonna put the camera? On the top? That would be great if you wanted a birds-eye-view on someone. The other place they could put it is on the bottom, then you're looking up at the person. The MacBook's work with the iSight because it's a small enough screen and you can angle the screen at your face while you use the iSight. I don't see a good design for adding one to the Apple Cinema Displays.

 

[queshy]

Okay... everyone... listen to me.

I don't think they'll put iSights in the ACD's because has anyone see how tall they are? Where are they gonna put the camera? On the top? That would be great if you wanted a birds-eye-view on someone. The other place they could put it is on the bottom, then you're looking up at the person. The MacBook's work with the iSight because it's a small enough screen and you can angle the screen at your face while you use the iSight. I don't see a good design for adding one to the Apple Cinema Displays.

Yup, that makes sense. I Think they should release a BT iSight attachemnt for the ACD so that there is no cable clutter.

 

[daneoni]

Okay... everyone... listen to me.

I don't think they'll put iSights in the ACD's because has anyone see how tall they are? Where are they gonna put the camera? On the top? That would be great if you wanted a birds-eye-view on someone. The other place they could put it is on the bottom, then you're looking up at the person. The MacBook's work with the iSight because it's a small enough screen and you can angle the screen at your face while you use the iSight. I don't see a good design for adding one to the Apple Cinema Displays.

Also government agencies and companies that frown upon cameras use these displays and including isights might hamper sales.....IMHO.

 

[tiggle]

BUT....the 24 inch imac has a built in isight. Can't be bothered to check, but I am guessing that would put the camera at the same height as it would be in the 23inch ACD wouldn't it?

 

[kd5hsm]

The apple displays have a very nice look to them. Not the just the physical look of it, but the picture is very nice. The resolution is pretty high on them too.

But they tend to be pretty expensive. I really like them, but the only apple displays I have are on my poerbook and iMac. My other displays are off brands, cause I cant afford the apple displays.

You just gotta decide if the nicer picture quality is worth the extra $$$

 

[MvdM]

Are the pink hue problems with the 23" ACD solved? I also remember that switching for example from Finder to Photoshop results in a 'ghost' image of the Finder in Photoshop (or other app) for quite a while.
One thing I don't like about te ACDs is there grainy display coating. Like dust is laying on your screen. Can't imagine photo pros like to work with that.

 

[mark88]

I'd find it hard to buy an ACD given the current prices. You can get a 20" Samsung with better specs for 1/3 the price of the Apple 20".

I agree that an ACD looks better, but I'm not paying 2/3 more:

Samsung SM204BW Widescreen 6ms 700:1 (1680 x 1050) Black DVI - £176

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/113148/rb/25386921828

compared to £529 for a 20" ACD

 

[dante@sisna.com]

This Samsung Will Not Touch a 20" ACD for Image Editing

I'd find it hard to buy an ACD given the current prices. You can get a 20" Samsung with better specs for 1/3 the price of the Apple 20".

I agree that an ACD looks better, but I'm not paying 2/3 more:

Samsung SM204BW Widescreen 6ms 700:1 (1680 x 1050) Black DVI - £176

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/113148/rb/25386921828

compared to £529 for a 20" ACD

This Samsung is a fantastic monitor for everday use, gaming, etc but it cannot compare to a 20" Apple Cinema (ACD) or similar for image editing and/or video production, just an FYI.

The Samsung is a 6 bit display. This means it can only display 250047 colours natively. It simulates 16 million colours using hardware dithering. This was very apparent the first time I switched it on. Colour gradients are not completely smooth. Even if you don't notice the gradients, keep in mind that this display us either a TN or PVA screen -- the Apple uses a superior IPS panel.

The ACD's also use an 8/8/8 LUT with minimal display controls which is actually a good thing as the color tables are referenced at the factory and then represented in a design/production workflow via Colorsync profiles that are built for that optimized LUT.

If you do this sort of Design Production work the Apple can pay for itself in one or two jobs in terms of color ACCURACY. Being worth the cost has nothing to do with the Display's visual (as in non-display) looks. It has to do with color for graphic design, video production, etc.

 

[Tangerine]

Just want to say that the ACD are great display, but not the 23 one. Switch to a pure black background and start counting those little stuck pixels. I guess some people don't even bother to look for them? Then there the horrible backlight bleed in every panel they produce. I would suggest go for the 20 or if you have the money the 30. There is seriously something wrong with the 23 one.

 

[dante@sisna.com]

Just want to say that the ACD are great display, but not the 23 one. Switch to a pure black background and start counting those little stuck pixels. I guess some people don't even bother to look for them? Then there the horrible backlight bleed in every panel they produce. I would suggest go for the 20 or if you have the money the 30. There is seriously something wrong with the 23 one.

How old is your 23"? I had heard Apple had addressed these issues in the last revision Summer 2006? Any thoughts?

 

[TheSpaz]

Are the pink hue problems with the 23" ACD solved? I also remember that switching for example from Finder to Photoshop results in a 'ghost' image of the Finder in Photoshop (or other app) for quite a while.
One thing I don't like about te ACDs is there grainy display coating. Like dust is laying on your screen. Can't imagine photo pros like to work with that.

I had a pink hue on my first 20" ACD but, I returned it and my new one doesn't have it. Also, I do notice the grainy coating on the display but, I am no longer bothered by it because it's a hell of a lot better than the MacBook Pro 15" screen which was very grainy/dirty looking.

 

[ascender]

Having read a couple of reviews recently where ACDs have been put up against other similarly sized screens, they do seem to score very highly on image quality. But most reviews then say that unless you're using them for business use which relies on having the best representation of graphics possible, they're just not worth the money. Apparently the difference between them and a cheaper, brand name alternative is negligible when it comes to home users.

 

[Tangerine]

How old is your 23"? I had heard Apple had addressed these issues in the last revision Summer 2006? Any thoughts?

I order mine last month on Apple online store. I was even shock to find out my serial is an old production date. Even if you get newer model, there still chance you run into those flaws. It's really a hit and run on this ACD. I know the only issue Apple fix was the pink hue. Other then that, there was nothing done to this ACD. I think after the price drop, qaulity control also went down the hill. I can't believe getting a good ACD without many stucks pixel is so hard. I can live with the backlight bleed, but mine come with 10 stucks pixels one after another, some are bright pixels, which get really annoying. Maybe better luck if you buy it at Apple store but I doubt it.

 

[NYCAVS]

Sharp 32GP1U?

I read through this thread and clearly there are lots of people with strong views and significant knowledge on monitors. I am interested in a 30ish inch monitor for use with a Mac Pro (not bought yet- waiting for new one) but also capable to hook up a laptop and also a digital cablebox (via HDMI). I would appreciate your advice on the soon to be released Sharp 32GP1U. I think it will meet all these needs.... but of course would love an iSight!

 

[Multimedia]

Don't. Buy Dell Instead. Both 20" & 24" Are On Sale Now

Don't have time to read the whole thread so pardon me if this is redundant.

Dell Monitors are much better for many reasons not the least of which is price. They all have DUAL VGA and DVI inputs PLUS video inputs PLUS they rotate (ATI cards support rotation) PLUS 4 port USB hubs PLUS memory card readers.

The 24" 1920x1200 Dell is on sale now for $674.

The 20" 1600x1200 Dell is on sale now for $382.

 

[dante@sisna.com]

Not so Fast!

Don't have time to read the whole thread so pardon me if this is redundant.

Dell Monitors are much better for many reasons not the least of which is price. They all have DUAL VGA and DVI inputs PLUS video inputs PLUS they rotate (ATI cards support rotation) PLUS 4 port USB hubs PLUS memory card readers.

The 24" 1920x1200 Dell is on sale now for $674.

The 20" 1600x1200 Dell is on sale now for $382.

Multimedia and I usually see eye to eye on most topics in the threads we visit, but not in this case: What Multimedia says about Dell Monitors being superior to the ACD's may only apply in the areas of casual video enjoyment and production, everyday business / household use, and gaming.

Apple Cinema Displays are superior to Dell's in one important area: Color Management mainly for Graphic Design in a print environment and in some mid-range video production.

I go into detail on this within this thread but basically it comes down to this: Apple fixes nearly all the display controls (ie RGB adjustment, hue/sat, luminosity) and makes them non-adjustable on the monitor which is actually a great thing for color management. Next they build SWOP certified Color Lookup Tables (LUT's) for the 8-bit RGB channels -- these "profiles" are integrated into the colorsync workflow and managed by the Operating System and Video Card and then form a workable color management system for the entire design and printing (or video) process.

Dell does not take these extra steps with their monitors -- granted one can purchase a $250 to $300 calibrator (don't buy a cheap one) and do very similar things BUT keep this in mind:

Apple Displays use the superior IPS panel, whereas the Dell's use PVA in the 20 and a random selection of IPS or PVA panels in their 24" monitors. Google "dell panel lottery," for an explanation. PVA panels tend to be a notch below IPS panels for color consistency.

These are just my thoughts after 18 years of work to get color right for print and multimedia processes. ACD's do have their place!

 

[Blue Velvet]

These are just my thoughts after 18 years of work to get color right for print and multimedia processes.

And very welcome they are too. Thanks for that... some people need to realise ACDs are about more than just the pretty stands. 😉

 

[dante@sisna.com]

I read through this thread and clearly there are lots of people with strong views and significant knowledge on monitors. I am interested in a 30ish inch monitor for use with a Mac Pro (not bought yet- waiting for new one) but also capable to hook up a laptop and also a digital cablebox (via HDMI). I would appreciate your advice on the soon to be released Sharp 32GP1U. I think it will meet all these needs.... but of course would love an iSight!

I am not familiar with this monitor -- I will look forward to looking into this week and will share my thoughts on it. I am also in the market for another 30".

Keep in mind that you can split a HDMI signal to DVI input, if I am not mistaken. A lot of cables and boxes are on the market for this.

If you do color design work, the Apple 30" is a great monitor, using a true IPS display with colorsync base profile. You can get a refurbished one with true ONE YEAR APPLE WARRANTY and free shipping on the Apple store for $1599.00. The Dell's are nice, but you loose the Colorsync and have to calibrate yourself -- the color also does not seem to be as consistent: read the CNET review. The new HP 30" is supposed to be nice with an improved color gamut. MacWorld reviewed it last week, but the review was not specific.

I'll look into that Sharp.

 

[Multimedia]

I Stand Corrected. Apple Cinema Displays Are Better For Superior Color Management

Multimedia and I usually see eye to eye on most topics in the threads we visit, but not in this case: What Multimedia says about Dell Monitors being superior to the ACD's may only apply in the areas of casual video enjoyment and production, everyday business / household use, and gaming.

Apple Cinema Displays are superior to Dell's in one important area: Color Management mainly for Graphic Design in a print environment and in some mid-range video production.

I go into detail on this within this thread but basically it comes down to this: Apple fixes nearly all the display controls (ie RGB adjustment, hue/sat, luminosity) and makes them non-adjustable on the monitor which is actually a great thing for color management. Next they build SWOP certified Color Lookup Tables (LUT's) for the 8-bit RGB channels -- these "profiles" are integrated into the colorsync workflow and managed by the Operating System and Video Card and then form a workable color management system for the entire design and printing (or video) process.

Dell does not take these extra steps with their monitors -- granted one can purchase a $250 to $300 calibrator (don't buy a cheap one) and do very similar things BUT keep this in mind:

Apple Displays use the superior IPS panel, whereas the Dell's use PVA in the 20 and a random selection of IPS or PVA panels in their 24" monitors. Google "dell panel lottery," for an explanation. PVA panels tend to be a notch below IPS panels for color consistency.

These are just my thoughts after 18 years of work to get color right for print and multimedia processes. ACD's do have their place!

I stand corrected. I did not know any of that. This is the first place I have ever read such a clear and concise explanation as to why Apple Cinema Displays are superior to Dell's. Thank you very much for setting me straight.

 

[dante@sisna.com]

I stand corrected. I did not know any of that. This is the first place I have ever read such a clear and concise explanation as to why Apple Cinema Displays are superior to Dell's. Thank you very much for setting me straight.

Well, Multimedia, my forum friend, I am not so sure I "Set You Straight" as much as I added to the wonderful discussions that continuously elevate.

I have just spent too much time agonizing over client color for print work: Generally, your analysis is correct -- Dell's are a better value overall. Only if one wants a really good stock color profile without having to calibrate are the Apple Cinema's Really worth it. Well I guess the IPS/PVA panel differences are factors in color consistency as well.

Still waiting for those 8-Cores huh? Me too!

When I finally get my eyeTV, I'll be knocking on your email door for sure.

Dante

 

[marcosc]

Just want to say that the ACD are great display, but not the 23 one. Switch to a pure black background and start counting those little stuck pixels. I guess some people don't even bother to look for them? Then there the horrible backlight bleed in every panel they produce. I would suggest go for the 20 or if you have the money the 30. There is seriously something wrong with the 23 one.

I was surprised to find this info posted here as I'm experiencing the same exact issue on my ACD 30". If you put the display on pure-black, you can see literally thousands of stuck pixels. Gently rubbing a cloth on top of them causes some to disappear and others to (re)appear.

This is actually the third monitor I got, after having exchanged the last two due to other problems (famous 'dancing pixels' problems, backlight bleeding, etc.). However, the first monitor actually had this same problem, to a similar degree. I'll eventually replace this one as well (still within 1 year warranty), but it's a pain considering the nearest Apple Store is an hour and a half away, not to mention the 30" ACD is uncomfortable to 'move around'. BTW, is there any way to check the production date of these monitors from the serial number alone?

I've tried using the famous 'pixel murder' video, for a short while (for those that don't know what I'm talking about, it's a short clip that quickly loops through red, green & blue in order to attempt to 'unstick' a pixel), but I'm hesitant to leave it overnight... Anyone care to comment from experience using this technique?

Like I said, I was surprised to find that post, considering I was about to open up a thread on the subject of these burnt pixels. Does anyone know if this issue is more widespread? I'm sure, like Tangerine said, many ACD owners are probably not aware of this issue, as the pixels can be hard to spot from more than 10 inches (25-30 cm) or so. Any recommendations on what to do would be appreciated. Thanks for reading.

Regards,
Marcos

 

[remiss]

I'm considering buying the new dell 30" (3007WFP-HC) over the ACD for "serious" amateur photoediting/viewing/printing, but also general long hours use. (Mac Pro)
Where I live (sweden) an ACD 30" is 3150$ and the dell is 1900$...😱

After reading this thread, a couple of questions for those who seem to know.

Since I use a calibrationdevice, what difference does swop-certification, which the ACD has, do for me?

The dell-panel is an IPS 92% gamut version superior to the ACD on paper in several aspects. Is it true that this 92% gamut can not be properly handeled by todays software/hardware, and therefore not trusted for coloraccuracy? It seems to big a mistake in design no? Also several other makes use this.

What about the higher contrast ratio, which I think represents more than optimism from dell? Better blacks?

Are there any reasons to believe that the new dell 30" would not exceed the performance of the much older ACD 30" with regards to color and contrast?
If so, please explain how. I have no access to either, and can not compare.

My only reason for getting the ACD as of now is looks. , which seems a bit expensive.