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Other Why can’t Apple create a notchless FaceID phone like IPad Pro?
- Thread starter Alaxlmartin
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SquireSCA
Suspended
Which is why I kinda liked Samsung's approach to it. Iris and face scan on the front, but still have the finger reader on the back where your finger naturally rests, and if both were to somehow fail, then you have PIN or Pattern, or, Google Assistance can actually be trained to recognize YOUR voice and unlock it that way...
As a result, the Samsung was a bit more versatile with authentication, and while the top and bottom bezel were a tad larger than the XR, so the side bezels were noticeably smaller. And whereas the XR has the ears and so your 6.1" rating is really more like 5.9", the Samsung gave you the entire screen to watch a video on without having any piece missing.
I know, apples and oranges, just saying that there are different solutions to the problem and I think that a lot of people would rather look at a nice, amazing and complete screen, than a heavily notched one.
The polls from Apple users claim that most don't care, but that has to be taken with a grain of salt. The majority of Apple users WANT to be Apple users, and are willing to live without a lot of features and functionality in order to do so, history has shown...
Remember that while for the last 12 months it has been all about the bezels for Apple fans, prior to 12 months ago they were all perfectly content with 1/2-3/4 *INCH* bezels, while phones like Pixels, LG and Samsung phones all had bezels a mere fraction of that, for a couple years at that point... Same went with large screens, and all the other things that Apple finally got around to copying from Android... Before Apple adopted large screens, polls said that Apple fans were perfectly happy squinting at tiny 4" screens... They even mocked large phones... Until Apple offered a larger phone and then they changed their tune to, "OMG this is so amazing, small screens are the suck"... LOL
As a result, the Samsung was a bit more versatile with authentication, and while the top and bottom bezel were a tad larger than the XR, so the side bezels were noticeably smaller. And whereas the XR has the ears and so your 6.1" rating is really more like 5.9", the Samsung gave you the entire screen to watch a video on without having any piece missing.
I know, apples and oranges, just saying that there are different solutions to the problem and I think that a lot of people would rather look at a nice, amazing and complete screen, than a heavily notched one.
The polls from Apple users claim that most don't care, but that has to be taken with a grain of salt. The majority of Apple users WANT to be Apple users, and are willing to live without a lot of features and functionality in order to do so, history has shown...
Remember that while for the last 12 months it has been all about the bezels for Apple fans, prior to 12 months ago they were all perfectly content with 1/2-3/4 *INCH* bezels, while phones like Pixels, LG and Samsung phones all had bezels a mere fraction of that, for a couple years at that point... Same went with large screens, and all the other things that Apple finally got around to copying from Android... Before Apple adopted large screens, polls said that Apple fans were perfectly happy squinting at tiny 4" screens... They even mocked large phones... Until Apple offered a larger phone and then they changed their tune to, "OMG this is so amazing, small screens are the suck"... LOL
I think the main 3 problems with Samsung's iris recognition are:
1) Not massively reliable
2) Requires very specific orientation and positioning to work
3) Isn't secure enough to be used for NFC payments and app authentication.
I absolutely love the 4" iPhone. I would gladly have an iPhone X with a 4" screen.
SquireSCA
Suspended
Here is the thing... At the end of the day, you have to have blank area, or a bezel on your screen for whatever tech is in there. True edge to edge just isn't feasible at this time. So what it really comes down to, is how much, and where...
Looking at the S9+ and the XR side by side, they probably have the same amount of "wasted space" on the glass. The Samsung has more top and bottom, as opposed to the XR having more all around and on the notch, which intrudes into the viewing portion of the screen. The XS/M will reduce the all around bezel, but still leave the intrusive portion on the screen via the notch.
I guess it's all a wash at the end of the day, the percentage or real estate having to be allocated to sensors is gonna be comparable. The difference will come down to personal taste... Some won't mind the wasted space being on the viewing area itself, while others will...
Looking at the S9+ and the XR side by side, they probably have the same amount of "wasted space" on the glass. The Samsung has more top and bottom, as opposed to the XR having more all around and on the notch, which intrudes into the viewing portion of the screen. The XS/M will reduce the all around bezel, but still leave the intrusive portion on the screen via the notch.
I guess it's all a wash at the end of the day, the percentage or real estate having to be allocated to sensors is gonna be comparable. The difference will come down to personal taste... Some won't mind the wasted space being on the viewing area itself, while others will...
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I definitely think Apple’s design looks and feels more appealing than Samsung’s.
janeauburn
macrumors 65816
I'd rather have a bit larger bezels and symmetry than a notch.
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Face ID would be more tolerable if it were faster than touch ID. I was shocked when the XS came out and Face ID had not been improved.
We're still given a 1.0 iteration of this technology on a 2.0 phone.
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The bezel actually makes the phone easier to hold for quite a few use cases.
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Haha. Good one. That "notch" on the TV looks fugly.
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Face ID would be more tolerable if it were faster than touch ID. I was shocked when the XS came out and Face ID had not been improved.
We're still given a 1.0 iteration of this technology on a 2.0 phone.
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The bezel actually makes the phone easier to hold for quite a few use cases.
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Haha. Good one. That "notch" on the TV looks fugly.
SquireSCA
Suspended
Face ID seems to work pretty well, I don't mind it, but to be completely honest, it doesn't seem any better or faster than Samsung's version... It "Seems" faster to many people because it's already scanning by the time you get it up to your face, and you still have to make a pronounced swipe up, as opposed to just picking it up and looking at it and it automatically unlocks like Samsung does.
When you factor in that Apple makes you swipe up, a deliberate movement, it actually takes longer and has more steps than Samsung. That said, I don't really mind it. I just wish that they had come up with a better way to deploy it than the notch.
For the TV, imagine if the notch was a really cool gestures system, where you needed no remote, you just gave it thumbs up for more volume, thumbs down for less, and swiped your hand left or right to change the channel? Cool, right?
Ok, well what if that cool feature required a proportional notch to be missing from the screen's viewing area? On a 65" screen, that could be an inch or two deep, and 16+ inches wide. I am sure people wouldn't like that on their TV, even if you used the ears to tell the time... People would mostly prefer a slightly larger top bezel to accommodate the gesture system, I am sure.
But my long history with Apple products and their fans, is that no matter what the feature they are lacking, or how wonky it is implemented, they will make excuses for it and say that it isn't so bad, because to most of them, it's not about the phone, or the feature, etc... It's about being a fan of APPLE, the same way they might be a fan of a given football team...
I am a fan of all the brands, in one way or another. I point out where they shine, and where they drop the ball, IMHO. I don't believe in brand loyalty on any level. They don't have loyalty to us, most of the time. We are a means to an end, a way to drive the stock price and make them rich. As long as we keep paying, they don't care about us in the slightest. It's only when it hurts their profits, that they care.
Probably why I am not into sports... I couldn't be all about "my team" because when they suck, I will say they suck and not support them any more and move on to someone who wins, so I would never be considered a "real fan"...
Which makes no sense to me. Why support a loser? How does losing, in any way demand my support and respect?
Winners get respect and support...
I'm a firm believer in being open minded about other products and services and I tend to support the company that makes the best products and engages in business practices I believe in. That's why I don't use Google or Facebook products because I dislike their business practices and the negative impact their products have on values I hold.
I'm most definitely not a sports person at all and I dislike the tribalistic attitude some team supporters have.
Samsung’s version often failed on me. Eg when I’m wearing sunglasses, when I’ve got my ski helmet on. Then I’ve got to take my gloves off to reach the finger print sensor round the back. IMHO a really stupid place for a finger print sensor. But some people might prefer Samsung’s setup. That’s fine. Then buy a Samsung phone, problem solved.
janeauburn
macrumors 65816
SquireSCA
Suspended
And most of them will deny it, but I would submit that they need to take an honest look in the mirror. Who camps out in the cold and rain, for DAYS, just to be in line to get a phone that is marginally better than the phone that they already have?
Because Apple is a "lifestyle brand"... It's about the experience of being an Apple owner. Their products are special, and buying those special products, makes the owner special, by proxy.
Apple's wizardry is not in their hardware. It's in their marketing department. They tapped into the same psychology that Harley Davidson did. Look at how many guys spend more on their Harley's than they do on their mortgage, and buy all the clothing, and the boots, and the chain for the wallet, etc... By the time they are done they look more like Wild Hogs meets Freddie Mercury, but in their eyes they are total badasses because THEY HAVE A HARLEY... and all that chrome looks magnificent parked in front of Starbucks, doesn't it? They instantly went from boring accountant with a minivan and nagging wife, to badass biker, just by signing a piece of paper and riding an outdated bike home.
It's all in the name. You don't buy the product, you buy the status. 🙂
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Well, again, anything can fail. You really don't like the finger scanner on the back?
I guess it would depend on hand size... I am 6'4" and 230lbs, so on a large phone like the S9+ my natural hold puts my finger right on the scanner. I never had to think about it. And just tapping the screen or lifting it had it scan and unlock, without me having to swipe up.
But you are right, use what works for you... For me, I looked at the XS and it was too small. The XS Maxx was really nice but I didn't see enough difference in the screen to justify an extra $400, so I went with the XR and the money I saved will buy me a new Apple Watch 4. 🙂
I’m 6ft 2 and certainly don’t have small hands. I find that some large Apple Watch straps aren’t big enough for my wrists.
Because of the work I do I have to use a case. Bits of dust etc would accumulate around the finger print sensor causing it to fail. First the face identification would fail, then the finger print sensor. It was a pain in the butt. I was also constantly wiping the camera clean as the idiots put the camera too close. I know that’s changed now but why on earth did they do that!?
Then I had issues mounting the thing in my car. I had to ditch my trusty ProClip as the sensor was covered.
Because of the work I do I have to use a case. Bits of dust etc would accumulate around the finger print sensor causing it to fail. First the face identification would fail, then the finger print sensor. It was a pain in the butt. I was also constantly wiping the camera clean as the idiots put the camera too close. I know that’s changed now but why on earth did they do that!?
Then I had issues mounting the thing in my car. I had to ditch my trusty ProClip as the sensor was covered.
There's definitely nothing special about buying an Apple product, I can assure you!
Apple's wizardry is in their hardware AND software. I love that I can pick up any of my devices (phone, tablet or laptop) and be able to access my text messages, photos and emails and continue browsing where I left off on a previous device. I love that my favourites playlist syncs to my watch so when I go out running I can listen to my music.
There's no other manufacturer that has an ecosystem as good as this.
Microsoft have OK laptops and desktops
Microsoft have middling to OK tablets
Microsoft have no smartphones
Microsoft have no smartwatches
Google has poor laptops and no desktops
Google have poor to middling tablets
Google have middling to OK smartphones
Google have poor to middling smartwatches
Even with a notch I’d like to see a landscape FaceID on the iPhones.
I wonder if you could create a landscape FaceID by holding the phone sideways while it scans your face?
I wonder if you could create a landscape FaceID by holding the phone sideways while it scans your face?
Jesus christ. Part of your screen is not missing. The stupidity of some of the statements that fly around here never fails to astonish.
You either fill the space in and have a smaller screen and an ugly forehead on the device, or you have edges where you can put status and info as well as create a recognizable, identifiable design trait. Nobody's taking anything away from you, and if you don't like it, don't buy it.
Look how absolutely stupid that looks. Thank everything that you're not designing phones for Apple. I will never understand why having the screen extend around the camera and Face ID elements makes people scream about their screen being missing, all the while they advocate for LESS DISPLAY ALTOGETHER as the solution.
1 phone looks clean and symmetrical and won’t cut into YouTube videos. 1 will. Your choice.
Neither of them will cut into YouTube videos unless you zoom in. Both will cut off parts of video when you zoom in. Your choice.
SquireSCA
Suspended
By zoom you mean use the whole screen.
Listen, there is a new notch thread every day, obviously people don't like it.
It's one thing to say that "It's a necessary design element that I can accept in order to get smaller bezel on top with Face ID, etc"... but saying it is a "beautiful design element that I enjoy aesthetically", is a lie... it's justification and rationalization...
Symmetrical? Hilarious. My choice is the best possible design and once again I’m so glad that random people on the internet have no say in Apple’s design.
Android’s right over there for ya.
Just like Samsung had "Face ID" and all sorts of oohs and ahhs before Apple did. It is what it is, if you like throwaway phones with some more boxes checked go ahead. Apple isn't even close to the wavelength of people complaining about the notch so please everybody single file over to Samsung world because it's here to stay on our end.
As an aside, I always find it curious when someone comments on how bad it is that the notch cuts out a portion of a video, but completely disregards the fact that much, much more of the typical 16:9 video is lost outside of the screen. Sure, the notch stands out more than what you can't see, but it really is less of a big deal than losing the tops and bottoms of 16:9 video. This is when the video is zoomed in to fill the screen, of course, because the notch doesn't block anything if you don't zoom in.
For instance on the iPhone X / Xs the notch blocks about 1,7% of a 16:9 video, while on the iPhone Xr it blocks about 1,5%. Meanwhile about 18% of a 16:9 video's top and bottom is lost outside of the screen on both.
In case you're curious, by comparison the S9+ loses about 13,5% of a 16:9 video's top and bottom outside of the screen.
My point is - if you're willing to accept these kinds of percentages of visual information lost anyway, the notch is a drop in the bucket. If you're not willing to accept it, then you're viewing videos zoomed out and the notch doesn't come into the equation.
For instance on the iPhone X / Xs the notch blocks about 1,7% of a 16:9 video, while on the iPhone Xr it blocks about 1,5%. Meanwhile about 18% of a 16:9 video's top and bottom is lost outside of the screen on both.
In case you're curious, by comparison the S9+ loses about 13,5% of a 16:9 video's top and bottom outside of the screen.
My point is - if you're willing to accept these kinds of percentages of visual information lost anyway, the notch is a drop in the bucket. If you're not willing to accept it, then you're viewing videos zoomed out and the notch doesn't come into the equation.
