Why can't they get American Hybrids Right? A Rant. (Picture Heavy)

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Aea, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. Aea macrumors 6502a

    Aea

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    #1
    Hybrid, Hybrid, Hybrid. So you want a hybrid, here's your choices (only true hybrids shown)...


    Import / Non-American Cars

    [​IMG]
    $22,000 48/45 MPG

    [​IMG]
    $34,200 27/25 MPG

    [​IMG]
    $26,150 33/34 MPG

    [​IMG]
    $23,500 40/45 MPG

    [​IMG]
    $43,480 26/24 MPG


    American Cars...

    [​IMG]
    $29,300 34/31 MPG

    [​IMG]
    $29,750 34/31 MPG

    [​IMG]
    $60,000+? 20/21 MPG

    [​IMG]
    $50,490 20/20 MPG

    [​IMG]
    $45,350 19/20 MPG

    (GMC Sierra Pricing and MPG Not Released)

    [​IMG]
    $51,000 20/22 MPG



    Does anybody else find this in the least bit disturbing? Why can't American car manufacturers realize that people don't want gaudy inefficient monstrosities? Now given the import cars have their own unique problems, the prius is incredibly ugly, and there's two small SUVs on the list.

    The American cars are all SUVs, I'm looking at full Hybrids only, not milds. The Escape looks rather appealing, that's pretty damn good fuel efficiency, at a low price. But it's still an SUV.

    It's almost as if the car companies are completely unreceptive to the fact that gas guzzlers are out of style, it doesn't matter if it's for reasons of cost or ethics. If they give us an efficient eco-friendly car it has to look like it was pulled out of some "in the year 2000" comic book, yes I'm looking at you Prius, and doubly so for the Chevy Volt (not a hybrid, worth mentioning). Or, they give us an SUV with horrendous fuel efficiency.

    Why can't our American Companies do something simple like...

    1) Take a small SEDAN
    2) Make it a Hybrid
    3) Don't Make It Ugly

    Sell it for the premium of having all the Hybrid components.

    :mad:
     
  2. TEG macrumors 604

    TEG

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Location:
    Langley, Washington
    #2
    They did, it is called the Chevrolet Volt (which is a true hybrid), or the Ford Fusion Hybrid.

    The US companies started making SUVs and Trucks as hybrids because that is what the idiot Americans think that SUVs are safer than small cars.

    TEG
     
  3. dmr727 macrumors G3

    dmr727

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    #3
    Yep. And Detroit wonders why it's getting it's ass kicked by imports. But you're right - I'd like a Prius like hybrid that doesn't look like a bag of hammered dongs.
     
  4. Aea thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Aea

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    #4
    I did mention the volt, but come on, the car is absolutely hideous. Why does being a Hybrid require that the designers break all standards of having a more or less standard look.

    Can't mention much about the fusion, no real statistics on it yet.
     
  5. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Location:
    having a drink at Milliways
    #5
    wait , the volt is not even available yet (nor will next year) and it is more a fully electric than a hybrid.

    one naive question for hybrid experts: for the next generation hybrids, do you need to 'plug in' the car regularly? what if you live in a city and typically park on the street?
     
  6. Aea thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Aea

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    #6

    You don't and it's just a benefit. Of course electricity to travel x miles is cheaper then gas to travel x miles. I think the volt will charge its battery from the gas engine.

    As for parking on the street, I'm sure affluent cities will start installing parking meters that can provide electricity for a fee.
     
  7. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Location:
    Colorado
    #7
    Out of the import hybrids I like the Camry, Civic, and Highlander the best. The Escape looks nice as well. I agree with OP that it is strange that you don't see American sedan hybrids.

    I looked quite seriously at a Highlander hybrid in Dec 2006. In the end, it was too small for my family and we ended up getting a Honda Pilot.
     
  8. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Location:
    having a drink at Milliways
    #8
    that would be cool, but i'm not holding my breath. :)
     
  9. ErikCLDR macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2007
    #9
    You forgot the Aura/Malibu hybrids. Some of the pics you have are also outdated like the Civic, Escape and Highlander. Also note that the yukon, tahoe, and esclade are basically the same vehicle.

    Yes American cars are ugly, I agree. Its been that way for years. To be honest the prius isn't too hot on looks either.

    If you ask me hybrids are a waste if you're actually trying to save money. However if you do want to have the image of an ecosnob, they are worth it.

    The only thing that makes hybrids valuable is the resale value which is because they are put on a pedestal. However in comparing their resale against a gas equivalent, I am only urged to see that the best deal is a used gas equivalent.
     
  10. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Location:
    having a drink at Milliways
    #10
    not true.

    there have been several studies showing that you do save quite a bit of money, but it mainly depends on how many miles you drive and where you drive.

    for city miles prius is best, for highway diesel (e.g. jetta TDI) wins.

    in addition, a concern for many would be pollution, with hybrid and some new generation diesels being much more 'green' than regular gas-powered ones.
     
  11. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    #11
    The Aura/Malibu hybrid is a mild hybrid.

    You also forgot the Vue hybrid. While the only one available as of now is the mild one, there is a two mode coming( the same system the Tahoe hybrid uses) and also a plug in. But, that just adds another CUV to the list.
     
  12. TheBusDriver macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    #12
    I like how all the Hybrids get around the same as my 20 year old Volkswagen, and I have more fun in it :)
     
  13. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Location:
    Flea Bottom, King's Landing
    #13
    I don't know why GM and Ford doesn't bring some of their excellent small diesel cars they sell in Europe to the States. They're already building them anyways. Why not sell them in the US?
     
  14. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2003
    Location:
    North Carolina
    #14
    No, they did it because they make way more money on SUVs than smaller cars, and because they underestimated the impact of rising fuel prices. They want to keep selling SUVs, but government mileage standards required them to get better mileage.

    So they made a huge error and focused on hybrid SUVs instead of smaller hybrids.
     
  15. godmachine12 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    #15
    I find it horribly disturbing. However, considering the fact that the majority of our population are gluttonous, fat bastards, those big vehicles remain appealing. I've yet to see a 350 lb. whale fit in a small car. Most of the people in the sorry region I live (South) won't fit in a Prius. Yes, it's quite sad and disgusting.
     
  16. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Location:
    A geographical oddity
    #16
    While all hybrids provide increased fuel economy, the developing distaste for SUVs coupled with the need/desire for the highest economy available is obscuring the major benefits of what American mfrs have been doing.

    Clearly those without the larger need are going to look at smaller vehicles, but the benefits to a hybrid SUV far outweight those of a small car. Remember, comparing relative performance means more than absolute. You see a greater reduction as a percentage in gp100m with the hybrid SUV than the smaller cars.
     
  17. pac-a-mac macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Location:
    The British Empire
    #17
    Because they need to get cars right period before they start tinkering with variants. If they find out how to make a car corner (at any speed) and provide competitive performance without requiring and engine block the size of a fair size garden shed...then and only then can they begin on the complex stuff. Oh and they need to get away from styling by Trooper Redneck Enus Horsehumper Jr and take a leaf from the Pinafarina book :)

    Are you sure about that. Ask most Brits and they will tell you that is exactly what Americans want. You keep buying them after all...you could always go for the Euro or Japanese imports. The sales figures just do not show any inclination toward class rather than quantity....I love you guys really
     
  18. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Location:
    On tenterhooks
    #18
    Americans, in general, love BIG, and big also has the advantage of having higher profit margins.

    Just keep buying Import sedans until they finally get the message.

    Even now, in these oil-crunch days, they are still trying to "mould" their buyers to what they want them to buy.
     
  19. TEG macrumors 604

    TEG

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Location:
    Langley, Washington
    #19
    No, they did it because a greater percentage of their sales were in SUVs, and the idiotic consumers expected Hybrid SUVs to get 40+ MPG without ever thinking about weight at a factor. Also, they build SUVs because they also build small cars like the Aveo and Colbalt that offset the fuel economy average using the loopholes of the CAFE standards. I deal with this all the time at school in Michigan, with a lot of students that work for the big 5 (Chrysler, Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda).

    Also, the plug-in aspect of the Volt and future hybrids is completely optional, it just allows one to recharge the batteries without burning fuel.

    TEG
     
  20. erikistired macrumors 6502

    erikistired

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Location:
    (770)
    #20
    maybe you shouldn't assume the people want what you want. the fact is, if they couldn't sell hybrid SUVs, they wouldn't make them. people want their SUVs, but they also want better gas milage (often forcing them into minivans, yuck). if they can be provided with big vehicles that get better gas milage...it's a win for the auto makers. could they get a smaller vehicle with even better gas milage? sure, but i'm guessing auto makers have lots of folks who talk to the people and find that's not what is going to sell.

    i love the misconceptions in this thread (and a few other threads on here, mostly by non-americans) aside from the OP. i dunno how hard it is to understand that what you want doesn't represent the masses. we love our trucks, we love our big engines, we love our muscle cars. as much as i loved my vw gti, it doesn't change the fact that i have two kids now and want space in the automobile i drive. i don't really care about going around corners or parallel parking in downtown london!

    i drive a honda element btw, it's the best compromise between gas milage and space i've found so far (unless we have another kid, then i'm off to find a 5 seater). however, if i could drive a tahoe and get the same mpg i gladly would.
     
  21. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #21
    Are hybrids really the answer, don't we need to find something with a new energy source.
     
  22. TEG macrumors 604

    TEG

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Location:
    Langley, Washington
    #22
    Hybrids, like Blu-Ray Disc, is an intermediate solution, until a replacement is found. Hybrids will reduce oil demands and CO2 output until FuelCells (or actually the Hydrogen for them) is available.

    And we really don't need to replace Oil, as it is a naturally occurring compound that is constantly being produced in the Earth's crust, but we need to reduce what we are consuming so that we don't take more that can be produced by the Earth, and we can use it for other purposes.

    TEG
     
  23. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #23
    And it does the work of a hundred cars in terms of pollution too. :rolleyes:
     
  24. rhsgolfer33 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    #24
    For the average person you probably won't save much. Let's assume that you want to buy a Honda Civiv. You've got a choice between the Hybrid and the "standard" engines. Let's also assume that you are going to get both at the fairly base levels (I believe the DX-VP has similar features to the Hybrid). So the Hybrid is $23,550 MSRP and gets 40 mpg city, 45 highway, and 42 combined. The DX-VP is $16,995 and gets 25 city, 36, highway, and 29 combined. Assuming you drive the average, about 15,000 miles per year, and you get the stated combined average of 42 or 29, you will use about 357 gallons of gas in the Hybrid and 517 gallons in the standard. So if we assume a $4.00 per gallons gas price, the Hybrid uses $1428 per year and the standard uses $2068 per year. So you save $640 per year in gasoline. The difference in costs between the two cars is $6555, a difference that would take over 10 years to make up. Of course gas prices will likely increase, but seeing as how the average person keeps their car for a little over two years, a hybrid might not be the best choice. In fact, to make the difference in purchase price up in 4 years, I believe gas would have to be well over $8 per gallon.

    I'd love some links to these studies if you have some, I'd like to read how they came about their conclusions.

    Personally, I'm not considering a hybrid, they are all ugly. I do like the Escape Hybrid, 34 mpg city is tempting. I'll probably just get a Mini Cooper, way cooler than any hybrid, better looking, and cheaper! Plus almost 30 mpg city.
     
  25. TheBusDriver macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    #25

Share This Page