Why can't you download files to iPad?

[Mac 128]

What you do in your company is irrelevant to what we want to do in our homes with our devices. Your company has a choice and can force a change on everybody in your office. We just don't want your forced change on us, just an option to do it differently. That has no effect on what you do but your approach has a direct effect on what we want to be able to do.

My boss has a laptop, but can't use it without plugging in a mouse -- never learned to use a trackpad. Redundancy, and inefficiency. Promoting the ability to use a mouse in a home, is detrimental to efficiency in the larger world.

Now, you go on about your rights to use a mouse and not have me or my company force their methods on you, but nobody is forcing you to buy an iPad. Apple has every right to limit your means of navigating its hardware. If you want to use a mouse, buy a MacBook, or a PC, or an Android tablet. Don't come here and tell me, my company or Apple what we have to do to accomodate your archaic needs in your home.

 

[sparksd]

My boss has a laptop, but can't use it without plugging in a mouse -- never learned to use a trackpad. Redundancy, and in efficiency. Promoting the ability to use a mouse in a home, is detrimental to efficiency in the larger world.

Now, you go on about your rights to use a mouse and not have me or my company force their methods on you, but nobody is forcing you to buy an iPad. Apple has every right to limit your means of navigating its hardware. If you want to use a mouse, buy a MacBook, or a PC, or an Android tablet. Don't come here and tell me, my company or Apple what we have to do to accomodate your archaic needs in your home.

A mouse is archaic? Great. Discussion over.

 

[Night Spring]

. If you want to use a mouse, buy a MacBook, or a PC, or an Android tablet.

I agree with this suggestion, in that you should vote with your wallets. If enough people don't buy iPads because they don't have mouse support, perhaps Apple will change their mind and add it. As long as people keep buying iPads, Apple has no incentive to change.

An example of two or more methods of input resulting in confusion is the Apple TV. It comes with the Apple TV Remote, but you have the option of using third party Bluetooth game controller. Well, it turns out some functions are easier to do on the game controller, while others are easier to do with the included remote. This has caused me to be juggling both remote and controller. It's a suboptimal situation, making me wish for a single remote that do all things well. I fear adding optional mouse support to iOS could cause a similar situation, where the mouse becomes not so optional after all.

 

[Beavix]

Read here about the mouse support in Android. Spoiler: it sucks.

 

[Serban]

wait for iOS10. seems that will address this thing for both ipad pros

 

[rowspaxe]

The problem with continuing to support a mouse is that it's a completely different input method than touching with a finger, or a stylus, and can lead to under developed touch skills, or having to learn a mouse input method when otherwise not needed.

"learn to a mouse input"? "under developed touch skills"? really!? lol

 

[mrex]

My boss has a laptop, but can't use it without plugging in a mouse -- never learned to use a trackpad. Redundancy, and in efficiency. Promoting the ability to use a mouse in a home, is detrimental to efficiency in the larger world.

Now, you go on about your rights to use a mouse and not have me or my company force their methods on you, but nobody is forcing you to buy an iPad. Apple has every right to limit your means of navigating its hardware. If you want to use a mouse, buy a MacBook, or a PC, or an Android tablet. Don't come here and tell me, my company or Apple what we have to do to accomodate your archaic needs in your home.

oh please.. there are always people who like to use mouse instead of trackpad, always.. and peopke having a smartphone just for calls. but that is not the thing. i also know people at work who are very productive with their ipads.. but all they can do it is that they check their emails and then use their computers to answer back. or just read some articles or magazines... that is the way most of the people use their so called productivity ipads at work. lets be honest. no one is using only their ipads when it comes to doing real work. who is going to do any presentation using only ipad? no one or it is going to be just a boring and crappy presentation... editing photos? no one is going to use their ipads to edit photos and print them for a customer. no one. writing alot? maybe but then you are using a bt keyboard and office or so... but it can be done with a tablet prized 50 dollars too..

i personaly like to use a mouse instead of a trackpad if i need to "choose" exactly right pixels. it is much easier with a mouse than using your fingers.. anyway, i dont use a mouse with my laptop normally. i can do normal things with the trackpad but whenever it is time to be precise i like to connect my mouse to a computer instead of using the trackpad and play the game "hit and miss" because most of the time it is hit and miss with a trackpad.

still no one is asking you or your company start using "archaic" mouse or a filing system. you can tap the screen as much as you want and having billions of copies of the same file and be lost what was the last edited...

as much as i want to believe that people use their ipads at work for doing work, i just cant. all i can see always is emailing or reading articles or shared docs. that is all. but even a simple phone can do that.

 

[mrex]

Read here about the mouse support in Android. Spoiler: it sucks.

no it doesnt. i use it regularly without problems. it sucks that i should jailbreak my ios devices to get a mouse support.

 

[sparksd]

no it doesnt. i use it regularly without problems. it sucks that i should jailbreak my ios devices to get a mouse support.

As do I. And I don't use the idiot lashup shown in their picture - I use a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

 

[rowspaxe]

Read here about the mouse support in Android. Spoiler: it sucks.

And the title of that scathing review:
Android on the desktop: Not really “good,” but better than you’d think

 

[Mac 128]

i personaly like to use a mouse instead of a trackpad if i need to "choose" exactly right pixels. it is much easier with a mouse than using your fingers.. anyway, i dont use a mouse with my laptop normally. i can do normal things with the trackpad but whenever it is time to be precise i like to connect my mouse to a computer instead of using the trackpad and play the game "hit and miss" because most of the time it is hit and miss with a trackpad.

You're talking about specialized input for the most part, and it is undisputed that there are better methods of manipulating data on the pixel level than a mouse or a trackpad. But a trackpad comes a lot closer to those specialized tablets that professional editors use than a mouse, especially with the introduction of the iPad Pro.

 

[off_piste]

Yes, the mouse is "archaic" in the same way a physical keyboard is "archaic." What a foolish notion.

People that can't use touch, trackpad or mouse have that problem because they've never really tried to use them. Saying we shouldn't have the choice due to spreading skills thin has to be one of worst arguments I've heard on this subject. Just, wow.

 

[sparksd]

Yes, the mouse is "archaic" in the same way a physical keyboard is "archaic." What a foolish notion.

People that can't use touch, trackpad or mouse have that problem because they've never really tried to use them. Saying we shouldn't have the choice due to spreading skills thin has to be one of worst arguments I've heard on this subject. Just, wow.

On a PC or laptop I actually need a mouse as I can't use a trackpad - I've developed benign tremors and no longer have fine motor skills in my hands. It's also the reason I can't use a pencil on a tablet. Can't use my Wacom tablet for photo editing any longer but a mouse works well for me. So it's not archaic in my case, it's indispensable.

 

[Mac 128]

On a PC or laptop I actually need a mouse as I can't use a trackpad - I've developed benign tremors and no longer have fine motor skills in my hands. It's also the reason I can't use a pencil on a tablet. Can't use my Wacom tablet for photo editing any longer but a mouse works well for me. So it's not archaic in my case, it's indispensable.

Again, specialized input, exception to the rule.

 

[masotime]

Please take the discussion to the relevant thread(s):

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...r-citrix-x1-mouse-no-need-for-laptop.1959404/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-pencil-as-mouse-replacement.1959232/

The thread necromancy is already sufficiently annoying.

 

[sparksd]

Again, specialized input, exception to the rule.

Thanks. But prior to the onset of my condition I still preferred mouse input. It doesn't change my opinion on the issue. At this point I think the discussion has moved to useless back and forth between two camps that will never convince the other. You think I'm wrong, I think you're wrong, and that won't change regardless of how many times we post. So I'm stepping away from this one as I think there's no further to be said.

 

[Mr. Buzzcut]

The problem with continuing to support a mouse is that it's a completely different input method than touching with a finger, or a stylus, and can lead to under developed touch skills, or having to learn a mouse input method when otherwise not needed.

I personally use a trackpad on my desktop Mac, which duplicates the pointing methods I use on my iPad and iPhone. So all of my input methods are consistent across all devices. I have witnessed first hand, people in my office who regularly work on PCs with mice, have trouble relating the track pad as a remote input method.

iOS already supports remote pointing, using the iPhone Remote app for an TV for instance. So supporting a Mouse or track pad wouldn't be an issue. Using an iPad in mirror mode, is essentially the same thing, and my preferred method of navigating, because it's more precise -- I can just jump to the place on the screen I want without having to drag the cursor there.

So yes adding mouse support moves user input in the wrong direction, and leads to fragmentation of the customer base, and makes it that much harder to get rid of the mouse completely. I noticed most of the desktops at the Apple Store on display had track pads, not mice. Thankfully, my mom never learned to use a mouse as he first computer was a laptop with a track pad. It made the transition to the iPad and subsequently the iPhone much easier for her not having to learn two input methods.

Trackpad and mouse are the same thing. They both move a pointer on the screen. Not sure why you'd argue for one and not the other.

 

[TrueBlou]

oh please.. there are always people who like to use mouse instead of trackpad, always.. and peopke having a smartphone just for calls. but that is not the thing. i also know people at work who are very productive with their ipads.. but all they can do it is that they check their emails and then use their computers to answer back. or just read some articles or magazines... that is the way most of the people use their so called productivity ipads at work. lets be honest. no one is using only their ipads when it comes to doing real work. who is going to do any presentation using only ipad? no one or it is going to be just a boring and crappy presentation... editing photos? no one is going to use their ipads to edit photos and print them for a customer. no one. writing alot? maybe but then you are using a bt keyboard and office or so... but it can be done with a tablet prized 50 dollars too..

i personaly like to use a mouse instead of a trackpad if i need to "choose" exactly right pixels. it is much easier with a mouse than using your fingers.. anyway, i dont use a mouse with my laptop normally. i can do normal things with the trackpad but whenever it is time to be precise i like to connect my mouse to a computer instead of using the trackpad and play the game "hit and miss" because most of the time it is hit and miss with a trackpad.

still no one is asking you or your company start using "archaic" mouse or a filing system. you can tap the screen as much as you want and having billions of copies of the same file and be lost what was the last edited...

as much as i want to believe that people use their ipads at work for doing work, i just cant. all i can see always is emailing or reading articles or shared docs. that is all. but even a simple phone can do that.

Actually, I like to use the Pencil when I "need to choose exact pixels" it's incredibly precise and I can just touch on what I want instead of guiding a little cursor around the screen, I find that it's quicker that way.

But we all have our own preferences. I'm in the, it's about time the mouse died, camp. I even prefer to use a trackpad on my Mac. I've not used an actual mouse in years. But that's just my preference, there are obviously always going to be people who want to hold on to decades old technology. Hell the mouse is 10 years older than me, that's definitely archaic in technology terms

Oh, and just as a side note, I do quite a lot of work on my iPad Pro 12.9". First iPad I've ever owned that allows me to actually do proper work. All the rest have been purely consumption devices.

 

[Mr. Buzzcut]

Again, offering two input methods, when one is inferior, promotes continuing use of legacy technology. I've already given one example of PC mouse users having trouble with a touch pad When using someone else's computer. This means my company has to support two methods instead of one. There's a financial incentive to move people to the more efficient method and promote consistency across platforms.



Microsoft also supports legacy serial and VGA ports going back to the 1970s. That's why the world of Windows is so fragmented and insecure, not to mention the PC market dying a slow death as there's no reason for anyone to update 20 year old PCs and peripherals. A perfect partner for Android.

What? These points have zero merit. OSX supports serial ports just fine and would support VGA if the hardware was present.

How is your company impacted by someone's difficulty with a touch pad? I used to have a trackball that precisely zero people besides me could use. Didn't cost my company a dime. They could always plug in a mouse if they needed to which are plentiful in any office environment.

Apple already has the pencil which negates any argument about keeping the interface exclusively touch.

This crap frustrates me more than anything about the Apple world. People fight useful features till their dying breath unless Apple adopts it and suddenly it's must have and everyone is upgrading and gushing over it.

 

[mrex]

Actually, I like to use the Pencil when I "need to choose exact pixels" it's incredibly precise and I can just touch on what I want instead of guiding a little cursor around the screen, I find that it's quicker that way.

But we all have our own preferences. I'm in the, it's about time the mouse died, camp. I even prefer to use a trackpad on my Mac. I've not used an actual mouse in years. But that's just my preference, there are obviously always going to be people who want to hold on to decades old technology. Hell the mouse is 10 years older than me, that's definitely archaic in technology terms

Oh, and just as a side note, I do quite a lot of work on my iPad Pro 12.9". First iPad I've ever owned that allows me to actually do proper work. All the rest have been purely consumption devices.

and how long that took from apple to introduce a pencil... which is a quite old technology though... samsung made it to be real 4 years ago with SPen.

if you are working cad or any similar programs or designing you would appreciate the mouse input. unless they offer something else mouse cant die or macs will vanish...

 

[richpjr]

and how long that took from apple to introduce a pencil... which is a quite old technology though... samsung made it to be real 4 years ago with SPen.

if you are working cad or any similar programs or designing you would appreciate the mouse input. unless they offer something else mouse cant die or macs will vanish...

You have to understand the Apple user mentality here - if Apple doesn't offer it, it's not needed and no amount of common sense or personal preference will deter the rationalization against it. We saw the same thing when the original iPhone didn't offer cut and paste. There were many people here scoffing at the need to include it and lecturing us on why it wasn't needed. Now it's the best cut and paste in the universe! We didn't need big screens - only a dumb Samsung user would hold a freaking phablet to their head! Now the 6+ is awesome. We didn't need pencils or physical keyboards either. Now they are awesome too. And if Apple ever does offer mouse/trackpad support, these same people will be crowing about how much better it is than what is available on Android or the MS Surface.

 

[TrueBlou]

and how long that took from apple to introduce a pencil... which is a quite old technology though... samsung made it to be real 4 years ago with SPen.

if you are working cad or any similar programs or designing you would appreciate the mouse input. unless they offer something else mouse cant die or macs will vanish...

Except it isn't, Apple have gone to greater lengths to ensure accuracy with the Pencil than Samsung did. I've had two of Samsungs stylus devices, neither of them have offered up the precision of the Pencil. I'm not saying they are bad, they're not, they just aren't as good. To me the Samsung styli are just that, a stylus for general interface work and a bit of writing. The Pencil on the other hand is, well it's a pencil, it's excels in proper work rather than being a general purpose stylus.

I need absolute precision in my design work and the iPad Pro/Pencil combo offers that in spades. It's a great tool to work with.

Hell, I've even started using the Pro and Pencil combo in conjunction with my Mac so that I have that brilliant Pencil precision in my desktop apps.

As for mouse use on a desktop, well, that's a preference thing. I absolutely hate mice now and when I'm forced to use one, on someone else's system, it just feels dated and old fashioned to me. I miss all of my gestures and force touch that I get with the trackpad on my Mac.

And I've certainly never had trouble using it for pinpoint accuracy. That includes cad/3D modelling/vector/video editing and a whole lot more. I've been using trackpads and styli for a long, long time, they are my preferred input options and it is just a personal thing, I wouldn't dare suggest what someone else should use as their input method of choice.

So no, I personally wouldn't appreciate a mouse. I'd probably throw it at you if you handed me one
[doublepost=1461440013][/doublepost]

You have to understand the Apple user mentality here - if Apple doesn't offer it, it's not needed and no amount of common sense or personal preference will deter the rationalization against it. We saw the same thing when the original iPhone didn't offer cut and paste. There were many people here scoffing at the need to include it and lecturing us on why it wasn't needed. Now it's the best cut and paste in the universe! We didn't need big screens - only a dumb Samsung user would hold a freaking phablet to their head! Now the 6+ is awesome. We didn't need pencils or physical keyboards either. Now they are awesome too. And if Apple ever does offer mouse/trackpad support, these same people will be crowing about how much better it is than what is available on Android or the MS Surface.

Hmmm, I do see where you're coming from and there's no doubt that there are those who adopt a stance much like that you describe.

However you're overlooking the fact that some of us don't just think whatever Apple offers is best regardless.

Personally I've been using keyboards and styli on my iPads for years from Adonit, Wacom, Logitech, Microsoft and a whole host of others at prices from a few bucks to well over a hundred. And that's just the iPad accessories, I'm not counting the other ones for other devices, just a direct Apple device comparison. (Incidentally, always hated the keyboards, but that was more to do with the cramped nature of them. The 12.9" Pro has improved on that just by being larger.)

So having used, for example, so many styli for so long I can very easily compare the performance of the Apple Pencil to, well basically all of the other "good" ones available for iOS. There's no doubt about it, Apple wins by a country mile. But then they should, that have the advantage designing the hardware and the operating system. If they can't make a best in class input device like the Pencil, there's something very, very wrong.

I'm sorry to say that that "Apple mentality" can often just be that one is well informed. And I'll happily sing the praises of any other manufacturers when it's justified.

 

[rowspaxe]

...it is undisputed that there are better methods of manipulating data on the pixel level than a mouse or a trackpad....

what are you talking about? He's talking about controlling programs

 

[mrex]

So having used, for example, so many styli for so long I can very easily compare the performance of the Apple Pencil to, well basically all of the other "good" ones available for iOS. There's no doubt about it, Apple wins by a country mile. But then they should, that have the advantage designing the hardware and the operating system. If they can't make a best in class input device like the Pencil, there's something very, very wrong.

i dont think that you can compare apple pencil to other styluses at all. like you said, apple used its own hw+sw exclusively while others were depending on information apple provided. and all other styluses were on shelves long before ipad pro came with a new ios.

none of the stylus manufacturers werent able to design a pen like apple pencil for a tablet (ipad pro) which didnt exist and os was lacking necessary codes.

 

[TrueBlou]

i dont think that you can compare apple pencil to other styluses at all. like you said, apple used its own hw+sw exclusively while others were depending on information apple provided. and all other styluses were on shelves long before ipad pro came with a new ios.

none of the stylus manufacturers werent able to design a pen like apple pencil for a tablet (ipad pro) which didnt exist and os was lacking necessary codes.

I'm not comparing them solely on iPad Pro use, just iPads in general, I've been using them for years with most of my iPads. No manufacturer ever has, as you say, gotten the same level of access to the inner workings of iOS devices as Apple and likely none, or very few, of them ever will.

That hasn't stopped them though from making styli for iOS for several years and it won't stop them from making them going forward.

Don't get me wrong, when I decided to ditch the Bluetooth styli because their SDKs weren't widely implemented. And improvements and new additions to iOS negated some of the SDKs features and started just using the Jot Dash it was a brilliant stylus for the price and if anyone doesn't want to splurge on the Pencil, I'm still recommending it for general writing and sketching.

But there's no two ways about it, the Pencil is the finest drawing and writing implementation iOS has ever seen. It doesn't matter what it's compared to and why, it's still better.

But for the non Pro iOS devices and those who don't want to spend as much, I like the Jot Dash a lot as a runner up. I'm even thinking of getting another one to use on my 6+ and other tablets.