Why can't you download files to iPad?

[Dirtyharry50]

Someone made the point earlier and it really was a fair one: the lengthy discussion of input methods here is completely off the topic of this thread. It would be good to see the existing ones on the subject or create a new different one as desired once it becomes clear people want to discuss something different from a thread topic in detail. Just a friendly reminder. I know I am not the forum police, etc. but can we get back onto the subject at hand please?

Speaking of the subject of the topic...

I went back and read the most recent posts on file management on iOS devices. Although I'd made a joke earlier about if we needed file system access, Apple would provide it I do actually feel there is some truth to that statement but not in all cases as usual. Use cases are as individual as users but it's a safe bet that in the substantial majority people actually are fine with the simplicity of design in iOS concerning file management. There is real benefit there for many users even though some do have completely legitimate reasons to want file management. I think this is a classic case where third party apps are the answer. These have already been mentioned so I won't get into specific apps but there are solutions and just like any third party app you ever use, sure it might go away but just like you'd do in any other case then, you find yourself a new replacement. It's not a huge deal most of the time, particularly for functionality that a fair number of people want. When there's demand there will be someone to meet it.

There is clearly not the major demand for file system access and traditional file management that some here assert exists. If there was, Apple would have been forced to meet this demand. As it stands though, iOS devices have been a huge success. In simplest terms, if they sucked in any serious way to most users they would not have been - including iPads.

Apple cannot possibly be all things to all people in any one product without completely sacrificing the highly important design goals of simplicity and ease of use which are significant in choices that were made in iOS. Space constraints were obviously another major factor and still are. So the answer is simple. If you need something Apple is not delivering by design, it falls to you to get an app that delivers what you need or use a different solution, device, etc. That's just the way it is and no amount of whining about specific desires is going to change it in reality. I do not understand why so many people struggle with this the way they do frankly. Why would they clutter up the user experience with anything that is irrelevant to the majority a product is aimed at? That produces confusion and a negative user experience - the polar opposite of what Apple is going for with these devices and the iOS operating system on them.

 

[rowspaxe]

Apple cannot possibly be all things to all people in any one product without completely sacrificing the highly important design goals of simplicity and ease of use which are significant in choices that were made in iOS.

But now Apple is marketing this as a productivity device. Simplicity and ease of use are no longer the only product parameters

 

[TrueBlou]

Someone made the point earlier and it really was a fair one: the lengthy discussion of input methods here is completely off the topic of this thread. It would be good to see the existing ones on the subject or create a new different one as desired once it becomes clear people want to discuss something different from a thread topic in detail. Just a friendly reminder. I know I am not the forum police, etc. but can we get back onto the subject at hand please?

Speaking of the subject of the topic...

I went back and read the most recent posts on file management on iOS devices. Although I'd made a joke earlier about if we needed file system access, Apple would provide it I do actually feel there is some truth to that statement but not in all cases as usual. Use cases are as individual as users but it's a safe bet that in the substantial majority people actually are fine with the simplicity of design in iOS concerning file management. There is real benefit there for many users even though some do have completely legitimate reasons to want file management. I think this is a classic case where third party apps are the answer. These have already been mentioned so I won't get into specific apps but there are solutions and just like any third party app you ever use, sure it might go away but just like you'd do in any other case then, you find yourself a new replacement. It's not a huge deal most of the time, particularly for functionality that a fair number of people want. When there's demand there will be someone to meet it.

There is clearly not the major demand for file system access and traditional file management that some here assert exists. If there was, Apple would have been forced to meet this demand. As it stands though, iOS devices have been a huge success. In simplest terms, if they sucked in any serious way to most users they would not have been - including iPads.

Apple cannot possibly be all things to all people in any one product without completely sacrificing the highly important design goals of simplicity and ease of use which are significant in choices that were made in iOS. Space constraints were obviously another major factor and still are. So the answer is simple. If you need something Apple is not delivering by design, it falls to you to get an app that delivers what you need or use a different solution, device, etc. That's just the way it is and no amount of whining about specific desires is going to change it in reality. I do not understand why so many people struggle with this the way they do frankly. Why would they clutter up the user experience with anything that is irrelevant to the majority a product is aimed at? That produces confusion and a negative user experience - the polar opposite of what Apple is going for with these devices.

Very well said, a pleasure to read a sensible, relevant post for a change
I have to admit I'm in complete agreement with what you have said here. The thing is, we've managed so far with the way it is so surely we can continue to do so? And Apple do keep, admittedly slowly, making small changes here and there to the file handling of iOS.

If I'm completely honest, and bear in mind I am a heavy user and not just for typical consumer focused consumption. Since the introduction of the 12.9" Pro in particular, I'm actually doing a not insubstantial amount of work on the iPad.

Anyway, I actually kind of like some aspects of the limitations of the file system. I know, I know, that sounds crazy and yes I'd still like to see improvements. But as I sit at my Mac, I'm fast approaching 16TB worth of files and that's soon to be expanded to over 20TB of storage space. That's not including the masses of cloud storage I also have and use.

Now, while that's obviously entirely different to an iPad situation. As I'm sure you can imagine, with that much data, and I'm sure many of you will have more than that. But I do suffer badly from the "where the **** did I put it" syndrome. It can be a bugger locating things at times.

Now on my iPad, I also use a Kingston MobileLite Wireless G3, for several things as its a versatile wee thing. But I do use it for storing many items, on memory cards and external hard drives, which I need access to even when I'm in places where things like cloud storage are not an option.

With iOS storage what it is it means that compared to my desktop situation, when I need something on my iPad it's in one of three places. It's either in the app I'm using, in iCloud or on my Kingston storage. So I can locate whatever I'm looking for quickly and easily.

So long story short as I'm waffling on that aspect I like. I like the simplicity of the file system but I'd still like them to expand on it a little to make the sharing of files between apps simpler. I'm not at all fussed for a full blown file system as such. Just ease of access. I think that's achievable without introducing much in the way of complexity.



......
This episode of waffling nonsense has been brought to you by 240mg of morphine and the number 7
[doublepost=1461514767][/doublepost]

But now Apple is marketing this as a productivity device. Simplicity and ease of use are no longer the only product parameters

Well, they've replaced the word Air with the word Pro and we all jump to the conclusion that it's no longer a normal iPad, instead of us thinking it's just the next evolution of the iPads. Just as the Air was at the time.

If you go to Apples website and read their actual marketing, it's not hugely different from the marketing of the Air 2 on their website.

Even with the Air 2 they are pushing (just as they have with all iPads) the productivity side of it. Featuring their own productivity suite of apps, along with the Microsoft office apps and a lot more.

It is we and the press who are pushing and marketing the new iPads as professional productivity devices a lot more than Apple is themselves.

 

[Dirtyharry50]

But now Apple is marketing this as a productivity device. Simplicity and ease of use are no longer the only product parameters

That's true but those two things needn't be mutually exclusive and I'm sure that's the goal there. It certainly can be a great productivity device for a lot of purposes I've found. There are some areas it really does not address that I happen to need and therefore I don't see not having a need for a desktop here just yet. I think it could do it all for me conceivably in the future.

Again, I'm sure the target market is a the largest number of users reasonably possible for this kind of device and the design goals for users of it in the majority.

 

[TrueBlou]

That's true but those two things needn't be mutually exclusive and I'm sure that's the goal there. It certainly can be a great productivity device for a lot of purposes I've found. There are some areas it really does not address that I happen to need and therefore I don't see not having a need for a desktop here just yet. I think it could do it all for me conceivably in the future.

Again, I'm sure the target market is a the largest number of users reasonably possible for this kind of device and the design goals for users of it in the majority.

I think that's the key thing, it's not going to replace a desktop for many users such as yourself and I. We need the desktop for things that quite literally are not possible on an iPad.

But there's those for whom it will, indeed already has. I personally know several people for whom an iPad has been their sole computing device for the past couple of years. Some have replaced a laptop or desktop. Some have never owned a computer at all before, but have found they love the simplicity of the iPad and it has opened up a whole new world of communication and entertainment for them.

But as I've said before, and even Mr cook said as much Himself. A Mac when you need it and an iPad when you don't. It seems simple enough to me. I can write up lengthy reviews on my Pro, I can create assets for my apps on it, I can edit video, I even write snippets of code which I then transfer to Xcode and so on. It's great, once I found the right apps to suit my needs I can get a lot done. Then, when I need to, I sit down in front of my Mac in my office and carry on using the same files I've created on the iPad. It's synergy at its best as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Newtons Apple]

You can not download files because Apple says we do not need to.

 

[617aircav]

You can not download files because Apple says we do not need to.

The correct answer.

 

[TrueBlou]

You can not download files because Apple says we do not need to.

But you can download any file you like. Apple just haven't implemented their own download manager as such, plenty of other have.

For instance, I have the MobileLight app installed for my Kingston G3. Now when I tap on, say, a zip file in Safari, instead of it giving me an error and not downloading it. Safari instead gives me the option to download it into the MobileLite app.

So, zip file transferred from some server on Internet into a location on my iPhone/iPads built in storage via Safari. I'm not sure, but that sounds an awful lot like downloading to me.

 

[Dirtyharry50]

Very well said, a pleasure to read a sensible, relevant post for a change
I have to admit I'm in complete agreement with what you have said here. The thing is, we've managed so far with the way it is so surely we can continue to do so? And Apple do keep, admittedly slowly, making small changes here and there to the file handling of iOS.

Thanks for the kind words and you've had a lot of good points as well.

You might want to check out the Deskconnect app on the Mac App Store if you haven't already as something that might be useful sharing some stuff between the Mac and iOS devices. It's free and it looked like it might be handy sometimes so I got that myself the other day but I have not had a change to fool with it yet. The companion to it for iOS is on the App store for them.

 

[TrueBlou]

Thanks for the kind words and you've had a lot of good points as well.

You might want to check out the Deskconnect app on the Mac App Store if you haven't already as something that might be useful sharing some stuff between the Mac and iOS devices. It's free and it looked like it might be handy sometimes so I got that myself the other day but I have not had a change to fool with it yet. The companion to it for iOS is on the App store for them.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely check it out. I never say no to another reason to play with my toys

 

[Dirtyharry50]

I think that's the key thing, it's not going to replace a desktop for many users such as yourself and I. We need the desktop for things that quite literally are not possible on an iPad.

But there's those for whom it will, indeed already has. I personally know several people for whom an iPad has been their sole computing device for the past couple of years. Some have replaced a laptop or desktop. Some have never owned a computer at all before, but have found they love the simplicity of the iPad and it has opened up a whole new world of communication and entertainment for them.

But as I've said before, and even Mr cook said as much Himself. A Mac when you need it and an iPad when you don't. It seems simple enough to me. I can write up lengthy reviews on my Pro, I can create assets for my apps on it, I can edit video, I even write snippets of code which I then transfer to Xcode and so on. It's great, once I found the right apps to suit my needs I can get a lot done. Then, when I need to, I sit down in front of my Mac in my office and carry on using the same files I've created on the iPad. It's synergy at its best as far as I'm concerned.

I agree. I see my Apple devices as working beautifully in concert with each other allowing me a lot of latitude in how I go about things now which is great.

I have also seen people using the iPad exclusively for a long time now or in some cases along with their iPhone for everything they need in the way of personal computing. A number of my family members do this and love their iPads. I love how rarely I need to be the family and extended family computer support tech anymore. It is a beautiful thing. Unfortunately, my parents who are nearing 80 do still find ways to screw things up but I have a file with all their key logins, passcodes, etc. so I am well prepared to deal with the likes of them. Fortunately though, even they usually don't need me for anything computer related anymore which is lovely.
[doublepost=1461523854][/doublepost]

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely check it out. I never say no to another reason to play with my toys

That just made me laugh out loud. I am the same way.

 

[TrueBlou]

I agree. I see my Apple devices as working beautifully in concert with each other allowing me a lot of latitude in how I go about things now which is great.

I have also seen people using the iPad exclusively for a long time now or in some cases along with their iPhone for everything they need in the way of personal computing. A number of my family members do this and love their iPads. I love how rarely I need to be the family and extended family computer support tech anymore. It is a beautiful thing. Unfortunately, my parents who are nearing 80 do still find ways to screw things up but I have a file with all their key logins, passcodes, etc. so I am well prepared to deal with the likes of them. Fortunately though, even they usually don't need me for anything computer related anymore which is lovely..

Oh how familiar that sounds. I spent many years (and still do to a thankfully lesser degree) as the person it seemed like half the blinking town called on to rectify computer problems. That partly contributed to my extreme dislike for Microsofts operating system and led me to Apple, a decision I've never regretted.

But now that more and more people I know are getting iPads my life has become so much easier. Though I do still want to bludgeon my head with a granite club at times when it comes to my dad's computer and the invisible tinker monkeys who apparently screw up his computer while he's asleep, like I'm ever going to believe "I didn't do anything"

 

[Newtons Apple]

But you can download any file you like. Apple just haven't implemented their own download manager as such, plenty of other have.

For instance, I have the MobileLight app installed for my Kingston G3. Now when I tap on, say, a zip file in Safari, instead of it giving me an error and not downloading it. Safari instead gives me the option to download it into the MobileLite app.

So, zip file transferred from some server on Internet into a location on my iPhone/iPads built in storage via Safari. I'm not sure, but that sounds an awful lot like downloading to me.

I need to download thousands of files. Both from Word and Excel so I can carry all of my company's bids and contracts with me. We work way out in the boonies and there is no wifi or cellular service sometimes. I need these files organized in about 200 different folders and so far Apple and third party apps have not cut it with me or the people that work for me.

 

[sparksd]

I need to download thousands of files. Both from Word and Excel so I can carry all of my company's bids and contracts with me. We work way out in the boonies and there is no wifi or cellular service sometimes. I need these files organized in about 200 different folders and so far Apple and third party apps have not cut it with me or the people that work for me.

One potential solution is to use a wireless device such as the Kingston or RAVPower to access the files stored in a desired folder structure on a USB HDD. I do the equivalent with a large number of videos broken into folders and then streamed to my Air 2 using the RAVPower.

 

[TrueBlou]

One potential solution is to use a wireless device such as the Kingston or RAVPower to access the files stored in a desired folder structure on a USB HDD. I do the equivalent with a large number of videos broken into folders and then streamed to my Air 2 using the RAVPower.

Yeah that's what I do with my Kingston G3, that way I can organise in any kind of folder structure I like. I went for the G3 because it's the only one that has wireless ac and so far it's not disappointed me. I'm often in places with no internet access so cloud services are out, having a hard copy on an external drive is essential. I managed without on for long enough but having it just opens up a few new options for storing and sharing files.

 

[sparksd]

Yeah that's what I do with my Kingston G3, that way I can organise in any kind of folder structure I like. I went for the G3 because it's the only one that has wireless ac and so far it's not disappointed me. I'm often in places with no internet access so cloud services are out, having a hard copy on an external drive is essential. I managed without on for long enough but having it just opens up a few new options for storing and sharing files.

Exactly - when no cloud services are available these work great. I'll be out at sea for three weeks in a short while and will have zero Internet connectivity for the duration so I'll be making further good use of mine (just spent a week in further reaches of Alaska with connectivity of no kind and used it a lot).

 

[Night Spring]

I need to download thousands of files. Both from Word and Excel so I can carry all of my company's bids and contracts with me. We work way out in the boonies and there is no wifi or cellular service sometimes. I need these files organized in about 200 different folders and so far Apple and third party apps have not cut it with me or the people that work for me.

I think GoodReader had a folder sync function, where you can sync network folders.

 

[TrueBlou]

Exactly - when no cloud services are available these work great. I'll be out at sea for three weeks in a short while and will have zero Internet connectivity for the duration so I'll be making further good use of mine (just spent a week in further reaches of Alaska with connectivity of no kind and used it a lot).

Jeez, now there's a thoroughly justifiable reason to have external storage. And lots of it

 

[xmichaelp]

And iCloud is not the future. Consistent internet connection is not here yet and data plan cost loads amount of money. Local storage is way better

Not sure what you mean by that. iCloud is local storage in addition to a backup and syncing system.

What I meant was I hope Apple allows you to download straight your iCloud drive folder icons on your device. It would be totally local storage, it would just sync to your iCloud once you reach wifi.

How is iCloud not the future? Cloud is the future of all computing. Local only storage just flat out sucks in comparison. The majority of people don't even update their local files. Cloud is so much better for the user.
[doublepost=1461551202][/doublepost]

silly?

when im leaning back on the sofa and sitting relaxed, mirroring my tablet to the tv, and writing some stuff with a bt keyboard, it would be quite silly and dumb to reach out my tablet just to navigate rather than using a bt mouse.

or when im using side by side view and searching info and reading articles while im writing notes on the otherside and my tablet is standing in front of me, it would be really stupid to reach my tablet again just to tap and navigate when im typing with a bt keyboard.

and so on...

i could do much more with my ipad if only i could use a mouse as i can use with my android tablet.

and... i just love having multiple copies of the same file on my ipad. dont you? rather than having a real and accessible filing system.

aaaand... i love even more to edit vids and pics using my fat fingertips rather to see the exact point and pixels.

Multiple copies? Didn't iCloud Drive fix that problem? You can open the same documents with any program.

Also, your use case seems highly unlikely. Tablet connected to a TV with a keyboard? No one does that. Just get a keyboard case for your iPad. Using a mouse with a mobile device is crappy, I stand by my statement.

 

[TrueBlou]

Not sure what you mean by that. iCloud is local storage in addition to a backup and syncing system.

What I meant was I hope Apple allows you to download straight your iCloud drive folder icons on your device. It would be totally local storage, it would just sync to your iCloud once you reach wifi.

How is iCloud not the future? Cloud is the future of all computing. Local only storage just flat out sucks in comparison. The majority of people don't even update their local files. Cloud is so much better for the user

I'm sorry, but if that's not tongue in cheek I couldn't disagree more. I like iCloud, I use it a lot, I've got hundreds of GB stored in it. But there's no way on gods green earth it's a suitable replacement for local storage.

It's all fine and good when you have an Internet connection. But what do you propose we do to access our files when we don't?

Maybe it's different where you live, but here in Scotland 90% of the country has no internet access, most of the U.K. Is the same. If you go too far out of a town or city you're lucky if you can make a phone call never mind use the Internet. And many rural towns and villages don't even have 3G.

iCloud is completely useless in any of those locations. That's why local storage is still very important, indeed more important than iCloud. iCloud may well be the future, but only when it's the future where we have constant internet access and no usage caps on our mobile devices.

 

[Dirtyharry50]

Never mind... rambling on... decided to spare everyone.

You're welcome!

 

[sparksd]

Never mind... rambling on... decided to spare everyone.

You're welcome!

For iWork apps - Pages, Numbers, & Keynotes - you can enable iCloud storage for each and then documents are both local and on the cloud and are synched when Internet access is available. You can enable iCloud usage in other apps like GoodReader and FileBrowser and within those apps you may have a local file copy only, an iCloud copy only, or a copy on both depending upon where you locate the file within the app itself. You can see what is being used by looking in Settings: iCloud -> Storage -> Manage Storage. You can control app access to iCloud Drive by going to Settings: iCloud -> iCloud Drive. It is confusing and the is no good iCloud for Dummies tutorial that makes it really clear (or better yet, How and Where Files are Stored in iOS). There is the iCloud Drive FAQ:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201104

But I'm also relatively new to this and my description above may be boggled; if so, I hope others more knowledgeable chime in and correct me.
[doublepost=1461645787][/doublepost]

For iWork apps - Pages, Numbers, & Keynotes - you can enable iCloud storage for each and then documents are both local and on the cloud and are synched when Internet access is available. You can enable iCloud usage in other apps like GoodReader and FileBrowser and within those apps you may have a local file copy only, an iCloud copy only, or a copy on both depending upon where you locate the file within the app itself. You can see what is being used by looking in Settings: iCloud -> Storage -> Manage Storage. You can control app access to iCloud Drive by going to Settings: iCloud -> iCloud Drive. It is confusing and the is no good iCloud for Dummies tutorial that makes it really clear (or better yet, How and Where Files are Stored in iOS). There is the iCloud Drive FAQ:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201104

But I'm also relatively new to this and my description above may be boggled; if so, I hope others more knowledgeable chime in and correct me.

The iCloud "folder" within FileBrowser and GoodReader are indeed duplicated and synched on the iPad and in iCloud.

 

[Dirtyharry50]

For iWork apps - Pages, Numbers, & Keynotes - you can enable iCloud storage for each and then documents are both local and on the cloud and are synched when Internet access is available. You can enable iCloud usage in other apps like GoodReader and FileBrowser and within those apps you may have a local file copy only, an iCloud copy only, or a copy on both depending upon where you locate the file within the app itself. You can see what is being used by looking in Settings: iCloud -> Storage -> Manage Storage. You can control app access to iCloud Drive by going to Settings: iCloud -> iCloud Drive. It is confusing and the is no good iCloud for Dummies tutorial that makes it really clear (or better yet, How and Where Files are Stored in iOS). There is the iCloud Drive FAQ:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201104

But I'm also relatively new to this and my description above may be boggled; if so, I hope others more knowledgeable chime in and correct me.
[doublepost=1461645787][/doublepost]

The iCloud "folder" within FileBrowser and GoodReader are indeed duplicated and synched on the iPad and in iCloud.

Thanks, while familiar with how it works on OS X I was unsure how things work in iOS for iCloud. I never cared about this on my iPhone but with the iPad and the apps I'll be using there it's good to know. Actually even with the iPhone now that I've got a new SE with 64 GB I may keep some apps with me that I would not consider before.

It's nice to know Goodreader and other solutions exist if I do find myself wanting local file access on my devices. For me, it isn't something I see myself needing at the moment but that could change easily enough the more I use it.

 

[sparksd]

Thanks, while familiar with how it works on OS X I was unsure how things work in iOS for iCloud. I never cared about this on my iPhone but with the iPad and the apps I'll be using there it's good to know. Actually even with the iPhone now that I've got a new SE with 64 GB I may keep some apps with me that I would not consider before.

It's nice to know Goodreader and other solutions exist if I do find myself wanting local file access on my devices. For me, it isn't something I see myself needing at the moment but that could change easily enough the more I use it.

I'm still struggling to some degree to fully understand the iCloud Drive and its capabilities. e.g., I put a .docx file in the top-level drive folder on my PC. When I access that file (only viewing it, not altering it) from within the iCloud Drive app on my Air 2 it is opened in Pages and a copy is then created in the Pages folder in iCloud Drive and within Pages on my Air 2; the original copy in the top-level folder still remains. If I want to open that same file in Word though, it's not clear how to do that. I admit to finding OneDrive & Dropbox to be more intuitive and they work well with a number of apps.

 

[whtrbt7]

I'm still struggling to some degree to fully understand the iCloud Drive and its capabilities. e.g., I put a .docx file in the top-level drive folder on my PC. When I access that file (only viewing it, not altering it) from within the iCloud Drive app on my Air 2 it is opened in Pages and a copy is then created in the Pages folder in iCloud Drive and within Pages on my Air 2; the original copy in the top-level folder still remains. If I want to open that same file in Word though, it's not clear how to do that. I admit to finding OneDrive & Dropbox to be more intuitive and they work well with a number of apps.

Normally the way I work with iCloud drive is to put documents inside of the Pages folder instead of on the top level. All documents should be arranged in their corresponding App Folder instead of just anywhere. It helps to simplify storage and for you to find what you're looking for. In Word, you press Open then More and your iCloud Drive will pop up. You then just open it there. Main thing about iCloud Drive is that it is recommended that you keep your file types separated by type/kind in the appropriate folders and then everything runs smoothly.