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Why do airlines over-book flights?

I was on an overbooked flight once (personally I don't get why people fail to show up. I don't understand how you can miss something as important as a flight... unless it's not important I guess) but they upgraded me to first class for the next flight 6 hours later. Considering it was a marathon London to LAX journey I was okay with it!

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tillsbury said:
They travel in first class if they are slumming it at all on a commercial flight. In business class people wear suits.
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I don't see many suits in business class any more. I usually fly out with colleagues and we all dress smart casual, or hoodies, whatever really (creative executives).
 
There is no dress code for the class of travel you fly in unless you're staff.

No airline will turn away an upperclass passenger because they are wearing jeans and a t-shirt.
 
As a frequent flier I've definitely had my share of free upgrades where I have not been dressed well. Yet I have been upgraded to first class on an airline I have no status on where the first thing the clerk did was peek over and make sure I wasn't wearing jeans or sneaker.

We were super early at check in for an international flight.

YMMV.

B
 
I was lucky enough to get a free upgrade to their extra legroom seats for my return trip home.

I went the desk asking about what that 100 dollars gets you, i.e., does it include expedited seating and/or the TV? They said no, but then asked if I was willing to assist in an emergency, i.e., emergency exit row and I said yes of course. Boy I got a lot of leg room and was extremely thankful for the free upgrade.
 
Dagless said:
I was on an overbooked flight once (personally I don't get why people fail to show up. I don't understand how you can miss something as important as a flight... unless it's not important I guess) but they upgraded me to first class for the next flight 6 hours later. Considering it was a marathon London to LAX journey I was okay with it!
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A lot of business tickets will allow you to book a seat on multiple flights, then you can either cancel at the last minute, or suffer no penalty for a no show. Of course, these tickets are more expensive, but some people need that level of flexibility.

I've done it myself - needing to be back home for the evening, but having some jobs to do at a remote site. I booked all 3 evening flights, so I knew I wouldn't have to wait too long to get back if I finished early. Ended up getting the middle one.
 
maflynn said:
I was lucky enough to get a free upgrade to their extra legroom seats for my return trip home.

I went the desk asking about what that 100 dollars gets you, i.e., does it include expedited seating and/or the TV? They said no, but then asked if I was willing to assist in an emergency, i.e., emergency exit row and I said yes of course. Boy I got a lot of leg room and was extremely thankful for the free upgrade.
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I book an exit row seat whenever I can, though they go fast. In the days when SWA seating was a free-for-all I used to try to get at the front of the A line so that I could get a seat in an exit row. Since they've gone to a pay more for a better seat system, that's much harder to do.
 
maflynn said:
I was lucky enough to get a free upgrade to their extra legroom seats for my return trip home.
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It's another form of overbooking. They sell more cheap seats than they have, and wait to see who bites to pay for premium seating. If they don't get enough takers they still have to fill the regular seats, so they move some people into the premium seats for free.

B
 
What's not being written about here are all the times 'overbooking' a flight works exactly as planned. That is... an airline oversells a flight by 10% (or whatever) and 10% of the bookings don't actually show up for the flight. Airline has just made a bunch of money not flying anybody around. The cost of compensating passengers when they get their predictions wrong will be measured as a fraction of that extra revenue. We don't hear about the flights where they get it right because no one is inconvenienced, and no one has anything to complain about.

I'm sure the formulas for maximizing the revenue to the costs are well tuned and refined. The more difficult exercise is finding the balance between maximizing the revenue vs the cost of bad feelings/bad press. How many passengers can you annoy (and how badly can you annoy them) before your brand takes a hit? That's where the smart money is, I would think.
 
Roller said:
I book an exit row seat whenever I can, though they go fast. In the days when SWA seating was a free-for-all I used to try to get at the front of the A line so that I could get a seat in an exit row. Since they've gone to a pay more for a better seat system, that's much harder to do.
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I usually can't because most of my trips are with the family, and no kids are allowed on the exit row.

balamw said:
It's another form of overbooking. They sell more cheap seats than they have, and wait to see who bites to pay for premium seating. If they don't get enough takers they still have to fill the regular seats, so they move some people into the premium seats for free.

B
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Interesting point, I was wondering this myself. Either way I got a good benefit without shelling out a 100 bucks. I still hate United because they seem intent on nickling and diming you to death but the lady at the counter was really nice.
 
maflynn said:
I'm sitting here in the airport waiting for my flight and I've gotten word that my flight is over-booked.

Why do airlines do that?

I mean tickets are nonrefundable (by and large). People spend a lot of money to go to a location, so there is a need and intent. Yet the airlines sell more tickets then seats? They then have to give a voucher for a future flight and get you on a new flight - seems like a lose/lose proposition from the airline's perspective and it will only anger those people (I pray its not me) who get bumped.
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Nonrefundable just means you don't get your money back if you can't make the flight. It rarely means you lose all the money you spent on the ticket, should you fly again. You can re-book and use the funds you paid towards the new ticket (minus re-booking fee if it applies). Most airlines give you a year to re-book--and it doesn't have to be the same flight.




Michael
 
Tinmania said:
Nonrefundable just means you don't get your money back if you can't make the flight. It rarely means you lose all the money you spent on the ticket, should you fly again. You can re-book and use the funds you paid towards the new ticket (minus re-booking fee if it applies). Most airlines give you a year to re-book--and it doesn't have to be the same flight.
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I understand the term, but the fact remains is that when people are dropping over 300 dollars per person per flight, its pretty difficult to just throw that away and get a credit from the airline instead. Especially in this day of no brand loyalty and the looking for the cheapest price.

The fact remains its hard to imagine someone dropping 1,200 dollars for a flight for a family of 4, other then an extreme emergency. If I did that with my trip to SF for Oracle's Open World (where I flew alone), I would have caught a rash of crap from my boss, so there both personally and professionally it doesn't make sense (at least to me) to cancel a flight.
 
maflynn said:
True, and I'll not disagree but when the cost of a ticket per person is in excess of 300 dollars (for my flight to San Francisco), I'd hazard a guess that 99.99% of the people who buy tickets will be at the airport. I understand life circumstances can impact a person's plans to travel but generally I think that's the rare exception more then a rule.
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Not for business travelers it isn't. I end up changing (or canceling) roughly 20% of my booked tickets because business plans can change at the last minute. A large number of seats are business travelers (probably more-so than most people think).
 
Dagless said:
I was on an overbooked flight once (personally I don't get why people fail to show up. I don't understand how you can miss something as important as a flight... unless it's not important I guess)
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I thought the same thing until it happened to me. Simply stated, things come up. Late connections, unexpected traffic, unable to find parking, etc.
 
maflynn said:
If I did that with my trip to SF for Oracle's Open World (where I flew alone), I would have caught a rash of crap from my boss, so there both personally and professionally it doesn't make sense (at least to me) to cancel a flight.
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Let's look at it another way - what if there was an emergency at work and you couldn't attend Open World? In that case, refundable makes sense.

It's a tradeoff between economy and flexibility.

Client cancelled the meeting? Refundable.

Project moved back a week? Refundable.

Something clearly more urgent came up? Refundable.

Software not ready to install? Refundable.

...and so on and so forth. People - mainly business people - cancel flights all the time.
 
smithrh said:
Let's look at it another way - what if there was an emergency at work and you couldn't attend Open World? In that case, refundable makes sense.

It's a tradeoff between economy and flexibility.

Client cancelled the meeting? Refundable.

Project moved back a week? Refundable.

Something clearly more urgent came up? Refundable.

Software not ready to install? Refundable.

...and so on and so forth. People - mainly business people - cancel flights all the time.
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Those business people also don't buy the cheapest seats, either. They generally go with business class or above, or the fully refundable fare.

A family of four can afford the $49 flight each way from LAX to LAS; not entirely so for the $250 each way for the same leg at the fully refundable fare.

BL.
 
bradl said:
Those business people also don't buy the cheapest seats, either. They generally go with business class or above, or the fully refundable fare.
BL.
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I can assure you that if I booked business class for any of the 200+ domestic flights I took, I would have been killed by my VP. International, business class was OK, domestic, cheapest refundable possible. Doesn't mean cheap, just cheap-est.

There are oodles of different fare classes that all still wind up in coach.

Most of the people sitting in business/first are frequent fliers and have been comp'd up there.
 
tillsbury said:
They travel in first class if they are slumming it at all on a commercial flight. In business class people wear suits.
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Hah. I literally laughed out loud.

I've booked into First Class three times in the last 4 months. That's paying for first Class at time of booking, not getting a cheaper or comp'd upgrade.

Each time I wore cargo shorts, slip on deck shoes and an untucked, short sleeve button-down shirt. Out of the 12 First class passengers on most flights, maybe 1-2 people were in suits. Most were in casual clothes.

First Class is not as stuffy/elite as people tend to think it is.
 
I wasn't talking about first class within the US, which is a completely different thing. I remember being told I'd been upgraded to first class on a flight from Washington to New York... so funny... we got a pack of peanuts in-flight...
 
maflynn said:
I understand the term, but the fact remains is that when people are dropping over 300 dollars per person per flight, its pretty difficult to just throw that away and get a credit from the airline instead. Especially in this day of no brand loyalty and the looking for the cheapest price.

The fact remains its hard to imagine someone dropping 1,200 dollars for a flight for a family of 4, other then an extreme emergency. If I did that with my trip to SF for Oracle's Open World (where I flew alone), I would have caught a rash of crap from my boss, so there both personally and professionally it doesn't make sense (at least to me) to cancel a flight.
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The fact remains that I have credits with two different airlines for flights that I had to cancel. It happens.

Last time I got delayed at a client location and was not able to make my flight, late on a Friday afternoon. That airline had no other flights available so I booked a later flight on another airline, rather than returning the next day. The cost of a hotel room, on a Friday night at that, was more than the re-booking fee. I know I will use the credit so not really a big deal.




Michael

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smithrh said:
I can assure you that if I booked business class for any of the 200+ domestic flights I took, I would have been killed by my VP. International, business class was OK, domestic, cheapest refundable possible. Doesn't mean cheap, just cheap-est.

There are oodles of different fare classes that all still wind up in coach.

Most of the people sitting in business/first are frequent fliers and have been comp'd up there.
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Same here. I certainly can book a flight that would cost more than the average leisure traveler would pay--certainly for a last minute trip--but that doesn't mean I can book first class on a typical domestic flight (most of my domestic travel doesn't even have a business class).

I might wind end up sitting in first class--but get there via a free upgrade due to travel program or similar.



Michael
 
yg17 said:
No they don't. Maybe they did in the 1960s, when people in economy got a steak dinner. But today they don't.

I just sat 3 rows behind business class on a flight from Frankfurt to Chicago and could see what people were wearing and didn't see one person in a suit. People wear what's comfortable, especially for a nearly 9 hour flight. Suits are not comfortable.
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I think a lot depends on the time of the flight. When I travel, I often see many people in suits. If I'm flying in for a meeting, I don't want to have to go to the hotel, check in, change and get to the meeting.
 
maflynn said:
I'm sitting here in the airport waiting for my flight and I've gotten word that my flight is over-booked.

Why do airlines do that?

I mean tickets are nonrefundable (by and large). People spend a lot of money to go to a location, so there is a need and intent. Yet the airlines sell more tickets then seats? They then have to give a voucher for a future flight and get you on a new flight - seems like a lose/lose proposition from the airline's perspective and it will only anger those people (I pray its not me) who get bumped.
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As an airline employee, I feel pretty confident in saying that it is a good practice. There is a system that takes into account the average number of passengers that don't show for each flight each day. That algorithm provides the airline with a certain number of seats that can be sold. That number can be but is often not equal to the actual hard count of seats.

It's a tried and true airline practice to minimize the number of empty seats on the flight. Annoying when it causes issues, but it generally happens with no one the wiser.
 
I've known about the practice, but I still think it's risky. What do you do when you have everyone show up?

I mean, all you can do is offer a another flight, but that wouldn't go over well for customer satisfaction.
 
Traverse said:
I've known about the practice, but I still think it's risky. What do you do when you have everyone show up?

I mean, all you can do is offer a another flight, but that wouldn't go over well for customer satisfaction.
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That's when someone gets "bumped." As I've said, we've got pretty good compensation for flights bumped from.
 
My father worked in this area (called "Revenue & Capacity management") for a years for a major airline.

Every flight has its own projected load factor, based on previous stats - taking into account not only the destination and time of day, but also time of year (is it currently school holidays, for example?), large events that may be occurring at either end (sports events, conferences, wars!) and myriad other factors.

It's actually quite rare for a flight to be so full as to have to bump people off and compensate them. Obviously the ideal is that every seat on the plane is taken, and not one person is turned away. You'd be surprised how often that happens.
 
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