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Why do I want to be a sucker?

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davewolfs

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 13, 2007
335
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Seriously as insensible as it maybe I still want a Mac (owned a Macbook Pro years ago). My biggest qualm is paying over 3k for an equivalent system that could cost me less then half (http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=12632208).

So for those who have already helped Apple with their absurd margin's why did you do it? Do you feel that it is really worth paying the extra $2k for the equivalent machine or did you buy your Mac because you absolutely needed the Mac only software for business purposes?

Ok, I've linked the images. Notice that the PC config also has a Velociraptor and dual terrabyte western digital black drives.

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davewolfs said:
Seriously as insensible as it maybe I still want a Mac (owned a Macbook Pro years ago). My biggest qualm is paying over 3k for an equivalent system that could cost me less then half (http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=12632208).

So for those who have already helped Apple with their absurd margin's why did you do it? Do you feel that it is really worth paying the extra $2k for the equivalent machine or did you buy your Mac because you absolutely needed the Mac only software for business purposes?
Click to expand...

I don't agree with you on Apple's margins. They have to spend a lot on industrial design on a machine that is unmatched in the industry. Along with that design are great materials built to last. Their unparalleled software is not cheap to produce.

That being said, the parts you chose here, and the prices are absolutely amazing. If I wanted a pro tower, I would go with this. If this price included all the Apple software, it would put Apple out of business since a tower like the Mac Pro isn't to be seen in most cases, but under a desk anyway. It still does not make it any cheaper to design the Mac Pro the way they did and build it so rock solid the way they do.

Apple does sucker people with RAM prices and at times gets absurd with some prices for entry level stuff.

That's the reason I subscribe to Macworld since they call Apple onto the mat when they ask too much for too little and past mistakes have been only 32 MB of RAM on the $1599 iBook at its introduction in 1999, $2499 for entry level Powerbook in 2000, the Cube being overpriced and underpowered, the hideous Dalmation iMacs, the initially high price for the iPod, lack of firewire in the latest Macbooks, and a few other things. But I wouldn't criticize the Mac Pros being that they are a huge step up from the Power Mac G5s which were not cheap, but overpriced in their day.

If I have to criticize any products they have now, their iPod classic is too expensive, I don't like the glossy finish on their displays, and I don't like the lack of firewire in the Macbooks. But look at their great products like OS X, iPod nano, iPhone, iMac, and Mac mini and that puts most of the competition in the dust. If Apple had firewire in the Macbook, reduced their prices for iPod classics and Mac Pros, and got Snow Leopard out already, I would say this could be Apple's best year ever and match the X-factor they had when they hit us all with the original iMac in 1998 and got revitalized.
 
63dot said:
I don't agree with you on Apple's margins. They have to spend a lot on industrial design on a machine that is unmatched in the industry. Along with that design are great materials built to last. Their unparalleled software is not cheap to produce
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It doesn't cost Apple any more to design thier notebooks, or write thier software than other companies. They just do it better, and that is what you are paying for.

Great materials built to last? Like plastic and aluminum and glass? Puh-lease. You are paying a premium for the marketing, the image, the culture, the allure. I'm not saying you aren't getting a great product. The AV software is industry leading, the OS is rock solid, the hardware is beautiful and functional. But it isn't costing them anymore to make than other manufactures.
 
theDUB said:
It doesn't cost Apple any more to design thier notebooks, or write thier software than other companies. They just do it better, and that is what you are paying for.

Great materials built to last? Like plastic and aluminum and glass? Puh-lease. You are paying a premium for the marketing, the image, the culture, the allure. I'm not saying you aren't getting a great product. The AV software is industry leading, the OS is rock solid, the hardware is beautiful and functional. But it isn't costing them anymore to make than other manufactures.
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Compare the Mac Pro to a pro level Dell tower or HP tower. There is no comparison. The PC side has a design which most often looks like they just don't care and go with what is safe. Carefully designing hardware and software does cost more since it takes more time and requires more people than just throwing stuff together like the PC side.

I know that Apple does pay lower than most of the PC companies where I live and that should probably be changed, but my criticism is more on the way they compensate their employees. That's where they cut corners. As much as I don't like HP, they pay very well by comparison. Same with Oracle, Sun, and Adobe. Former high tech people like me and most of my co-workers know that Apple employees often find it hard to survive in the center of Silicon Valley and have to commute from way up north or from down south in Gilroy and Morgan Hill. That sucks. Do I know anybody who worked for Apple and actually lived in a nice house in Cupertino? Yes, one person, the #3 man at that company through much of its history. Mid-level HP people could buy the whole freakin' block and some Google types could buy the whole neighborhood. Wanna talk about margins, what about what HP charges for ink?

But it doesn't seem to show in their products. Being that the employees get paid less on every level makes it that much more amazing how great their hardware and software is. It is the mark of people who take pride in what they are doing. If you want to live in the South Bay and get rich, go work for Google or Cisco, but if you want to make a product that gets attention outside of the tech industry and is at or near the top of being the most admired company to work for, then go to Apple. It shows that they like working there. Take for example where you live, it's paradise according to many. My employee left a good job here to work for a lot less up there but he does not have plans for coming back. He's an amateur astronomer and he can actually see the sky at night ... not here though. I am sure you know people who live at Lake Tahoe and make less money instead of making a lot more but live in a dump like San Jose or smoggy Los Angeles. People like living in paradise much like they do working for a company they believe in. For their product, Apple does not cut corners.
 
I don't see it as a troll post at all. Discussing why Apple's products are priced so much higher than PCs of similar performance seems perfectly relevant for this forum.

You, and anyone else who cries troll, are probably just trying avoid thinking about the possibility that maybe they shelled out way too much for an overpriced laptop.
 
Perhaps if I used screenshots of the prices with the items in the cart it would help better convey why I feel like a "sucker". Not trolling by any means, just asking for feedback and how most justify their purchase. Unlike some others in this country, I can't simply turn on the printing presses to justify throwing money out the window :)
 
theDUB said:
I don't see it as a troll post at all. Discussing why Apple's products are priced so much higher than PCs of similar performance seems perfectly relevant for this forum.

You, and anyone else who cries troll, are probably just trying avoid thinking about the possibility that maybe they shelled out way too much for an overpriced laptop.
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Yeah, that's it.

Hold on a moment, I'm gonna get my shovel. We need to dig that horse up out of the back yard. Obviously it hasn't been beaten enough.

Lord knows this topic has NEVER been discussed to death in just under a ZILLION threads here.
 
theDUB said:
I don't see it as a troll post at all. Discussing why Apple's products are priced so much higher than PCs of similar performance seems perfectly relevant for this forum.

You, and anyone else who cries troll, are probably just trying avoid thinking about the possibility that maybe they shelled out way too much for an overpriced laptop.
Click to expand...

Macbook w/o firewire? And at the price they ask? The MBA with nothing but a ridiculous price tag? Yes, I agree with you there (on those two Apple portables) and thus the tremendous outrage on Macrumors, on the internet, and from what Apple Store employees tell me all the time.

One store employee tells me he has never seen one MBA sold there. And most of them who know me have confided that they are not keen on no firewire in the Macbook. Stand there ten minutes and some new to Mac person, or returning Mac person makes a comment on the high prices in general of their portables.

The iPod and entry level iMacs make almost everybody's eyes get big. That's what keeps Apple a visible company. What latest computer does HP make that people know by name? What about Dell?
 
davewolfs said:
Perhaps if I used screenshots of the prices with the items in the cart it would help better convey why I feel like a "sucker". Not trolling by any means, just asking for feedback and how most justify their purchase. Unlike some others in this country, I can't simply turn on the printing presses to justify throwing money out the window :)
Click to expand...

You make a very legitimate argument and you back it with the products you posted. I don't consider you a troll at all. You have knowledge of computers and are probably able to build a great machine better than most.

But don't think Apple just sits there on their hands and make a huge margin. Their latest quarter net margin is more than 10% percent lower than Microsoft. Besides the factors I pointed out about why their products cost more (software, industrial design, materials), they advertise like crazy. That's not free. I rarely see a Microsoft commercial by comparison and I have never seen a Sun or Oracle commercial. If Apple didn't have iPhone, iTunes store, and the whole iPod line, they would certainly be out of business or far, far smaller. They knew they couldn't survive just on OS X and their computers so they came up with iPod, iTunes, and iPhone because they knew to make it here in this industry, you have to grow and evolve. It's not as simple as desktops, laptops, and padding in the margin.
 
63dot said:
What latest computer does HP make that people know by name? What about Dell?
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What? You mean all your friends aren't talking about he dv5-1235dx? :p

It's funny you mention that. Just recently I was helping my room mate out with the purchase of a new notebook, he was looking at HPs. I lamented to him: 'why do they have to give these things such ridiculous names. I can't even remember it 5 minutes after I learn it'.

Back on topic; the fact that everyone knows the names of Apple's products is part of their marketing, part of what you are paying for.
 
theDUB said:
Back on topic; the fact that everyone knows the names of Apple's products is part of their marketing, part of what you are paying for.
Click to expand...

But when Apple fails or falls short of expectations with a product, almost nobody remembers the product name. Ask a PC person what a Cube or Newton is, or what the MBA (Macbook Air) is. They won't know and neither will the vast majority of people who are buying a computer or Apple product for the first time in years.

Thankfully, most Apple products are memorable both in design and in name.
 
theDUB said:
Last time I saw an oracle ad I was watching the America's Cup.

http://bmworacleracing.com/de/interactive/images_2008/erste_ausfahrt/erste_ausfahrt_02.jpg
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The closest thing I have seen to a reference for Oracle is the local California Air Show. Also the Tim Curry character in one of the Charlie's Angels movies who is obviously a nod to Larry Ellison, Japanese temple house/big machines/weird facial hair/and penchant for young, young women 1/3 of his age who are barefoot. :)
 

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The Rominator said:
So let me get this straight...

You go to a Mac site, where everyone is likely a Mac Fan and start a thread titled "Why do I want to be a sucker?"

Can you say "Inflammatory"?
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I am a huge fan of Apple but I don't think he/she was being a troll. But the choice of a better thread title is in order. ;)

anyway, I think they put up some good information in an honest way not to piss us off but to be informative

If I had the choice for a "high end" Mac or graphics machine, I would make a Mac like this, from parts, and buy OS X and put it on this machine, or even put XP on it and buy Adobe CS for Windows.

But for my much more modest computing purposes, I think there is nothing better than my Mac mini. More software bundled than I ever use. I could, and did, plug it into an existing keyboard, monitor, and mouse. And the thing is faster than PCs I use and it's only $599. In that context, Apple is totally for me.
 
The Rominator said:
So let me get this straight...

You go to a Mac site, where everyone is likely a Mac Fan and start a thread titled "Why do I want to be a sucker?"

Can you say "Inflammatory"?

So, by extension, everyone reading the title just got called a "sucker" for buying their Mac.

Sounds rather TROLLISH to me.

As far as "What something is WOrth" there is only ONE definition that matters in the least....What People Will Pay.

So the fact that Apple Products fly off the shelves whilst others sit and get marked down should REALLY end the discussion.

So, either ALL of the people buying Macs are dangerous lunatics wandering the countryside, or this thread is pointless.

Why not go over to a Dell site and start a thread "Those Mac People are Gullible Morons with Too Much Money in their Pockets"

Should be a big hit, as they never get threads like that.
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I'll try it out and let you know how it pans out. It's all about how you interpret it sorry if I offended you.

suck·er (skr)

1. One that sucks, especially an unweaned domestic animal.
2. Informal
a. One who is easily deceived; a dupe.
b. One that is indiscriminately attracted to something specified: "The nation's capital is a sucker for a symbolic gesture" Jonathan Alter.

I'd say that both a) and b) apply here.

sucker

One who falls for a particularly stupid plan or scheme.

A commercial said that Macs were better then PC's and now Dave is left broke, what a sucker.
 
These threads are so boring now.

I bought a 2009 Mac Pro because I wanted an Apple, because I wanted OS X, because I can afford an Apple and because I didn't a PC.

/thread.
 
richthomas said:
+ you havent added tax and a PSU to your Newegg cart (Mac Pro uses 1000W PSU).
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No tax from Newegg to my state, I already own the PSU (Antec Signature 850W and it cost me $150). I highly doubt that the quad core would use a 1000W PSU, there is no need for it, perhaps the octo core, regardless those cost at most $300 for top of the line.
 
richthomas said:
+ you havent added tax and a PSU to your Newegg cart (Mac Pro uses 1000W PSU).
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With that added, and all the software that comes bundled, the whole thing ends up not being 1/2 like they claim. More like a thousand dollars cheaper. But still a pretty good set of gear for the price.

Before the move to Intel, building a Mac was close to impossible though some Woz.org fans did stuff like that, but then again those fans of Woz are mini-Wozes. :)

Anyway, Mac Pro expensive? Somewhat. But what I consider expensive is something like the Panasonic toughbook. I have no doubt Apple could make their version of a toughbook, and cheaper than Panasonic.
 
With a premium product comes a price that most wont pay.

Like the old comparison:

Some people drive BMW's some Drive Ford's.

Me? I bought my Mac because it is form and function in one piece of beauty. The thing is sexy and I love it. Oh yea, OSX.:D

63dot said:
Anyway, Mac Pro expensive? Somewhat. But what I consider expensive is something like the Panasonic toughbook. I have no doubt Apple could make their version of a toughbook, and cheaper than Panasonic.
Click to expand...


Just did a quick check to see how much those things were, and wow. :eek:
 
Tallest Skil said:
There is only one problem, and I'm amazed that no one said it yet.

THE PC IS NOT AN EQUIVALENT SYSTEM.

Learn something about processors and then come back and complain.
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Good point, the PC can run at 3.6Ghz on a bad day, 4Ghz on a good one, the Mac will always run at 2.93Ghz. Did I miss something?
 
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