Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
If you take the older Macs (the one that are due for a refresh) then you can say the graphics cards are low end. That is simply because it's due for a refresh. When new Macs are released, they have the latest graphics cards, often before the rest of the industry uses them. For example, the October release of the unibody notebooks, they used the 9400M GT and 9600M Gt graphics cards. The same time, Dell/HP/Lenovo/Sony/etc all used the 8XXX nVidia or ATI cards. Now, Dell is using the 9400M and 9500M for some notebooks.
 
But it also comes down to Balance.. As I said in my Prev Post.
What is the point of having a laptop that is really powerful. but has no battery Life. Personally I am REALLY happy with 3hours of battery life in a package that is 1" thick.

the iMacs (correct me if I'm wrong) Use laptop parts to make a computer that is quiet, Energy efficient but yet still powerful. (hence the expense)

My laptop uses about 90W of energy when I'm playing some games. But my Mums laptop Uses 140W of energy. For a laptop with the same amount of RAM same CPU, HDD space.. Mums laptop Uses a newer GPU from ATi rather than nVidia's GPU, which does use less energy. (links can be found..) (but in short the nVidia uses 90nm process while the ATi card uses a 55nm Process which is more energy efficient. )
So the question remains where is my mums laptop Using more energy??
I dont know the answer to that question but it does show that Apple is designing Laptops AND desktops which are Energy Efficient.

We have to look at this at ALL angles. Yes computer power at this price is low. but look at the energy savings.
Its difficult to decide. really it is..
Do I go for a laptop that is cheap big and clunkly
or do I go for the laptop that is expensive, thin and light (Assuming that the specs are very similar)

~Regards
Name101
 
hmpf, my macbook has a 9400M gpu i think? and my other (windows based) laptop has a 9500M with dedicated memory instead of shared like the mac.
conclusion: Mac is also better for gaming, and in theory my other laptop should be better?
apple doesnt even need better hardware, for some reason.. so dont whine you dont have the latest GPU in a mac, let them make it their way, its obviously going better than the rest.

Your post makes me laugh because I'm pretty sure you know nothing about computers. ;)
 
Quote film: Hackers "Did your mummy buy you a 'puter for christmas?"

:D

I found the graphics in my MBP 8600M 512mb more than enough for playing most games i play (COD etc) but for anything taxing then pc's are the way to go, and don't even bother trying to play them in OSX windows all the way.
 
While the graphics cards in Macs aren't the best, they're certainly more than adequate -- and by no means does that make our computers "mediocre", as you say. Macs have many great features and always use top-of-the-line components; you'll never see a Mac with an Intel Celeron processor, because they suck. Plenty of PC manufactures will put it in there though to drive down the cost of their machines and try to attract average consumers based on the cost.

Apple does it the other way, however. They use top-of-the-line components which, when showed off to the average consumer, will make the differences between a Mac and a PC like night and day. Most average customers don't need a super powerful graphics card to do their basic work, but they do need a good processor so that everything loads quickly (i.e. Intel Core 2 Duo). And that's what the average computer user is looking for.

Any consumer who even knows how a graphics card works isn't who Apple is targeting. They're targeting the people who just want a machine that will run well, and because Apple makes the computer, the operating system, and the applications, they're all literally made for each other.

That's what makes the Mac so appealing.

Do you really truly believe that Macs, other than Mac Pro, use top-of-the-line components?

Are you lying to me or yourself?

I know that I am paying a lot of money for external design and innovation. I am paying a lot for Mac OS X. I definitely know the internal components that drive the computer are NOT where my money is being spent.

MacMini - two years old and even the rumored is outdated and not high-end.

iMac - competing against PCs that are using Quad-Core CPUs and even Core i7 CPUs? Even the rumored NEW iMacs feature NO FASTER CPUs.

MB - same CPU speed for two years. Slightly faster RAM. Much nicer GPU. Real improvement is aluminum and not the computing speed.

MBP - less than 20% CPU speed gain over 30 months. ($2499 model, was 2.33 GHz 30 months ago to 2.53 GHz current). Graphics barely faster in most performance benchmarks over two years.

BUT, do any of these compete with the speed changes on the PC side?

I know I am paying a TON of money for the design, the aluminum, the glass trackpad with multi touch and etc... but really are the components that are driving ALL Mac computers TOP-OF-THE-LINE?

Buying the Apple design and innovation is great. Using OS X is much better than the PC... but Apple is limiting us on the hardware side by wowing us with design and innovation... NOT by providing us with superior or anywhere near top-of-the-line computing components.

Be truthful to yourself, we are paying a premium because Apple is the only game in town if we want to use Mac OS X. So, Apple will continue to update and provide lower-grade components than the PC counterparts because it doesn't have to use high-end components as we buy anyways.

I can be truthful to myself. I paid a hell of a lot of money for innovation and design and got a much slower Mac than the same money would get me on the PC side.
 
MacMini - two years old and even the rumored is outdated and not high-end.

First, why the hell would the mini EVER be high end, thats not the point of that computer.

Second, you might want to rethink who mac buyers are. Gamers are a VERY small part which is why apple doesn't cater to them crying for a new video card that comes out every other week.
 
Second, you might want to rethink who mac buyers are. Gamers are a VERY small part which is why apple doesn't cater to them crying for a new video card that comes out every other week.

Actually, gamers are probably NOT a very small part. You make the proportion of people who want to play games on their Mac to be a few percent or somthing, and I don't know why you'd think that. :confused:
 
Actually, gamers are probably NOT a very small part. You make the proportion of people who want to play games on their Mac to be a few percent or somthing, and I don't know why you'd think that. :confused:

I meant the people who buy a computer dictated by the games they play. I dont call casual gamers, gamers.
 
Apple doesn't give us better video cards because no matter what card they include, Mac users still buy Macs, and non-Mac users continue to be drawn to them. If you're Apple, why would you bother?

And while Apple has never been known to be gamer friendly, they've also never wanted to go in that direction. It's like asking Maserati to make a Ferrari. Apple makes the $250,000 "grand touring" coupe (Maserati?) that's concerned with having good specs and performance, but also the luxury features and comfort. These luxuries mean increase weight so that you don't get the performance you'd find in a tight, light-weight Ferrari. For the same $250,000, Ferrari is more about performance than ride comfort, supple seating, or practicality.


Apple does NOT make the fastest computer with the best specs. It has decided to make thin laptops in all laptop price points, which limits the speed of the components inside due to heat. Nothing wrong with that. Just know the company you're dealing with.

Asking Apple to make a 1.5" thick, 17" quad-core CPU laptop with an awesome graphics card, like Lenovo's W700, is like asking Ferrari to make a chunky Maserati.
 
Pretty much, not to mention that the new 9400 and 9600 are deffinatly adequate in the consumer lines for anything consumers would be doing.

And no, crysis doesnt count, that game is just ridiculous.
 
No, neither the 9400 or 9600M are bad video cards. They're just not great for higher-end gamers. They're certainly competitive with most other laptop manufacturers, but again, they're definitely going to get beaten by the companies that make fast laptops with no regard for thickness or weight.



I don't know why people want Apple to be something they're clearly not. :confused:
 
I don't know why people want Apple to be something they're clearly not. :confused:

I can understand the want, but some people seem to havent learned that they arent those companies yet. The outrage of some people actually makes me laugh.
 
I can understand the want, but some people seem to havent learned that they arent those companies yet. The outrage of some people actually makes me laugh.

And the fact Apple themselves market them as the fastest and best doesn't somewhat trick people?

I shall quote Apple.com

Graphics in full force.
The MacBook Pro reaches a new level of high-speed, high-end game-playing power. Not to mention pure performance for graphics-intensive applications like Aperture and Motion. Use the new NVIDIA GeForce 9400M integrated graphics processor for great everyday performance with up to 5 hours of battery life.1 Or switch to the discrete NVIDIA 9600M GT graphics processor for the fastest, smoothest, clearest graphics yet. Learn more about graphics

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/features-15inch.html

And let's look at Apple's iMac Page shall we:

The best iMac graphics yet.
With ATI Radeon HD graphics standard, iMac delivers smooth video playback and realistic visual environments. And now you have the option to upgrade to the most powerful graphics ever available in an iMac. With the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS and 512MB of dedicated video memory, this 24-inch iMac configuration reaches a whole new, blow-you-away level of detail and realism in games, three-dimensional graphics, high-resolution photos, and high-definition video.

http://www.apple.com/imac/features/

So don't go around saying Apple are something different to what they are telling us.
 
And the fact Apple themselves market them as the fastest and best doesn't somewhat trick people?

I shall quote Apple.com



http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/features-15inch.html

And let's look at Apple's iMac Page shall we:



http://www.apple.com/imac/features/

So don't go around saying Apple are something different to what they are telling us.

Notice how they never mention anything but macs, they are indeed the best macs out there. Apple isn't lying to you about that, only if for some reason you make assumptions that they are talking about PC's in general.
 
Ill requote the quote..

The best iMac graphics yet.
With ATI Radeon HD graphics standard, iMac delivers smooth video playback and realistic visual environments. And now you have the option to upgrade to the most powerful graphics ever available in an iMac. With the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS and 512MB of dedicated video memory, this 24-inch iMac configuration reaches a whole new, blow-you-away level of detail and realism in games, three-dimensional graphics, high-resolution photos, and high-definition video.

They didn't lie at all.
We as consumers just skim read the whole thing and assumed wrong.
 
If you take the older Macs (the one that are due for a refresh) then you can say the graphics cards are low end. That is simply because it's due for a refresh. When new Macs are released, they have the latest graphics cards, often before the rest of the industry uses them. For example, the October release of the unibody notebooks, they used the 9400M GT and 9600M Gt graphics cards. The same time, Dell/HP/Lenovo/Sony/etc all used the 8XXX nVidia or ATI cards. Now, Dell is using the 9400M and 9500M for some notebooks.

Ha Apple has never lead in using the latest graphics cards. EVER. Even if they did use new mobile GPUs before anyone else, they're always SERIOUSLY underclocked. I'm sorry but Apple is a joke when it comes to GPUs. The 8800GS in the iMac is a gimped GS. I wish Apple could put 295 GTXs in their desktops :(
 
Ha Apple has never lead in using the latest graphics cards. EVER. Even if they did use new mobile GPUs before anyone else, they're always SERIOUSLY underclocked. I'm sorry but Apple is a joke when it comes to GPUs. The 8800GS in the iMac is a gimped GS. I wish Apple could put 295 GTXs in their desktops :(

Pray, tell me, what is it that you cannot do with a current gen macbook that you can with other PC's? (outside of gaming, because if you're in it for gaming you shouldnt have bought a mac anyway). The 9400 and 9600 have been reported to function very well.
 
No, more memory doesn't mean more performance.
Its the whole Ghz game over again, a 3Ghz 8 years old Pentium 4, wouldnt not perform as fast as a new 2.0Ghz Core 2 Duo, so you see, Ghz and numbers mean nothing really.

Correction: "GHz and numbers" mean nothing when trying to compare two different CPU architectures. The old Pentium 4 was an evolutionary dead end and Intel created the Core line. They're essentially different branches of the Intel evolutionary tree and wildly different architectures. THAT is why comparing clock rates is irrelevant. Comparing two Core processors by clock rate is still largely valid, although even then there are subtle generational differences, cache sizes, etc. that can skew the comparison. That is also why there are industry standard tests (such as SpecInt/SpecFloat) that try to level the playing field between disparate architectures.

If you'll recall, Apple tried the "clock rate doesn't matter" card during the PPC days, which of course was half-right. It doesn't matter, but it doesn't mean the lower clocked CPU is better either. PPC got trounced by the Intel processors of the day on the Spec tests. After years of denail by fanboys and the likes of Guy Kawasaki, it gave me a particular chuckle to see the Spec tests quoted by Steve Jobs as a primary point for the Intel switch.
 
well he has a point here, in Belgium a mac is only sold to architects, designers of some kind, ...
i support his opinion here. Altough my brandnew macbook runs every game without any problem =D but for the real deal i got an xbox360 & a desktop PC (intel Q8200, 3GB DDR800, 8800GTX)

One can equally flip the argument around and say that Macs are only sold to emo web designers and fashionistas while PCs are used for real work virtually everywhere else.

The truth is, Apple puts a lot of effort into industrial design (nice). In the Mac Pro, they were the first ones to use the Core 2 Xeon processors, quite high on the horsepower scale. They use an 8 core server class processor in their desktops, so they aren't completely ignorant about using good hardware. The question is, why do they skimp on the graphics cards when the rest of the system is so nice?

I say this as an owner of a 1st gen Mac Pro who couldn't wait to "upgrade" to an nVidia 8600GT after it was several years old, and now I can't boot the system from a Leopard install disk to repair or install OSX. Yet another dusty corner of the Mac "experience" with mouse poop in it.
 
No because the goal is to have computers that are not loud, don't burn people, and certainly thin and light; things that can't be achieved with quad core CPUs and enthusiast graphics cards.

HA HA HA HA HA!!!. Nice joke, man!!!
That's why I can't work with my MBP on my lap for more than 5 minutes without suffering severe burnts... That's why the other name for MBP is "fancy frying pan".
My current PC portable does not run anywhere as hot as my MBP and it is $1500 cheaper.
The reason for the delay in introducing high end components is because Apple has to make sure everything fits and works perfectly within their closed configurations. They need drivers, etc. Also, as there are shape and configuration constraints they have to be very careful with their component choices: if Dell wants to use a bigger component, just uses a different case, etc. Apple lacks design versatility so the component choice has to fit within their cases, produce a maximum amount of heat, be able to interact with a given set of processors, motheboards, HD, etc.

And Apple does no use cheap components. They might not be the latest in technology, but if you configure a computer in any other brand with the same components as a MBP, you'll be surprised of the final price.
 
You macbook air is the thinest lightest notebook on the planet. It's got great components when you think of it that way.

Actually, no it isn't. Perhaps thinnest, but certainly not lightest. I have a 3 year old Thinkpad that is lighter.

Look at something like a Thinkpad X series to see how you can have a thin, light laptop that doesn't sacrifice on features.
 
Reply to original question in two words: Heating issues. It's difficult to keep Radeon 4870 X2 running cool 'n quiet in P180 (in picture) so you can't really stash it into iMac. That and just the 4870 X2 is thicker than iMac. Actually it's even difficult to put into case in picture, it's that huge.
Jimms_761345-09180-0_0.jpg
 
Apple does it the other way, however. They use top-of-the-line components which, when showed off to the average consumer, will make the differences between a Mac and a PC like night and day. Most average customers don't need a super powerful graphics card to do their basic work, but they do need a good processor so that everything loads quickly (i.e. Intel Core 2 Duo). And that's what the average computer user is looking for.

I hope you're kidding. Apple uses the same components that other PC OEM's use, and all of them are manufactured for very cheap at the same factories in China. Anything else they say, and its complete hype and advertising.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.