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Why do we "hate" Microsoft Office so much?
- Thread starter Cybernanga
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Office is good as long as it works. The worst thing about it is it trying to be smarter than the user.
Yesterday I spend half an hour trying to figure out how to change the spell checking language to Finnish so that it would work with a document my girlfriend had done by copypasting stuff.
Well first of all, I had set the language to Finnish a long long time ago, so I don't really undestand why copy-pasting would change it. Finally I got it working when I realized I first have to select all the text on the document and then change the language.
Still, the funny thing is there are two places to select the language and I just can't see why.
Also, what comes to word, I think it's much too cluttered. Also a thing I still haven't figured out is why does the PC version let you see the whole page on a 1024x768 display so that the text is easily readable, but on a mac you need 1280x1024 for that (using 125% size for displaying the page so that 12p font actually looks about the same as on paper). Correct me if I'm wrong or if I can fix this somehow!
The reason I'm not changing to Pages is when I tested it, it didn't really know too well how to import .doc.. And I'm getting those a lot. Oh, and iWork doesn't have exel, which I need
Yesterday I spend half an hour trying to figure out how to change the spell checking language to Finnish so that it would work with a document my girlfriend had done by copypasting stuff.
Well first of all, I had set the language to Finnish a long long time ago, so I don't really undestand why copy-pasting would change it. Finally I got it working when I realized I first have to select all the text on the document and then change the language.
Still, the funny thing is there are two places to select the language and I just can't see why.
Also, what comes to word, I think it's much too cluttered. Also a thing I still haven't figured out is why does the PC version let you see the whole page on a 1024x768 display so that the text is easily readable, but on a mac you need 1280x1024 for that (using 125% size for displaying the page so that 12p font actually looks about the same as on paper). Correct me if I'm wrong or if I can fix this somehow!
The reason I'm not changing to Pages is when I tested it, it didn't really know too well how to import .doc.. And I'm getting those a lot. Oh, and iWork doesn't have exel, which I need
sjpetry said:You're just a fanboy to Apple. You need to open your eyes.
Pages is not up to par with Word.
Maybe in a couple of years Pages will be better. But not yet.
What a weak response. Seriously.
Guess what... not everybody is looking for a clone of Word. I think that would be a terrible objective for Apple to pursue with Pages but clearly you're going to be disappointed with Pages so long as it isn't Word-like (and call anyone who likes Apple's approach an "Apple fanboy"? Yecch.).
I'm inclined to disagree with you there. I think Entourage X (the only version I've used) is overly cluttered and somewhat counter-intuitive, whereas Tiger's Mail is just about perfect for me.iMeowbot said:
wrldwzrd89 said:
Hey, maybe that makes you an "Apple fanboy" too!
Got your eyes open over there? I keep bumping into things...
I'm definitely an Apple fan(atic)...but I'm not 100% sure if I qualify for "fanboy" status.IJ Reilly said:Hey, maybe that makes you an "Apple fanboy" too!
Got your eyes open over there? I keep bumping into things...
I don't know if that second comment was meant to be serious or not, but I do have a tendency to be clumsy sometimes, dropping and bumping into things.
Cybernanga said:
The only thing I don't like about Office is that there are no free viewers. As a poor undergraduate a few years back, with teachers providing notes and practice tests in Word format only, it was quite a pain to import them to AppleWorks. The formatting was always screwed up badly and made many documents unusable (if there was a table or anything like that.)
I ended up pirating a copy of Office so that I could just view those files. Last year I finally broke down and spent $150 on the student version and now I've finally switched over from using AppleWorks. I like the software, and its a nice feeling to be compatible. My only gripe now is that I'm so new to such a large suite that I don't even know most of the things it can do.
Of course I resent MS a little bit, and I wouldn't mind an "office killer" but I can't imagine what such a program would look like. It seems very far-fetched.
wrldwzrd89 said:
It's a derogatory term often used in flamewars, which is why I was kind of surprised to see it pop up here. Just a little sarcasm, not aimed at you.
Crippled on the mac
I use office or putting it correctly used to use it on both pc and mac (xp on pc and 2004 on mac) and these are my observations
1. word is so slow as soon as you have a few pictures in with your text scrolling or pressing return to start a new line is painfull on a mac ( tested on a dual 2.5 pm and a 1hz pb the pc i have is 2.4ghz p4)
2. a read somwhere that certain calculations ran faster under virtual pc + office than they do on mac excel
all in all MY experience of office on mac has been cr*p
I use office or putting it correctly used to use it on both pc and mac (xp on pc and 2004 on mac) and these are my observations
1. word is so slow as soon as you have a few pictures in with your text scrolling or pressing return to start a new line is painfull on a mac ( tested on a dual 2.5 pm and a 1hz pb the pc i have is 2.4ghz p4)
2. a read somwhere that certain calculations ran faster under virtual pc + office than they do on mac excel
all in all MY experience of office on mac has been cr*p
Too much stuff
We have MS Office on are computers but only use it to save "copy" to text format to import into other programs. I for one, have never understood why people use word processing apps. To me they are nothing but glorified typewriters. I use graphic design programs to write my stuff. Total control over type and images. Plus if these users ever had to have printing done on a press, their Word files probably wouldn't "rip". Plus I cannot bring myself to use anything that Bill Gates and Co. ripoff or buy outright.
We have MS Office on are computers but only use it to save "copy" to text format to import into other programs. I for one, have never understood why people use word processing apps. To me they are nothing but glorified typewriters. I use graphic design programs to write my stuff. Total control over type and images. Plus if these users ever had to have printing done on a press, their Word files probably wouldn't "rip". Plus I cannot bring myself to use anything that Bill Gates and Co. ripoff or buy outright.
Dane D. said:
I'm not saying this with specific regards to Office, but in general, if a software program is a GOOD software program, I don't care who wrote it/ripped it off. As a result, I have no problems using MS software if it does what I need it to. Just like many other companies out there, MS has its share of bad software, but it also has its share of excellent software as well and people shouldn't be biased when it comes to something like that. If it works, I'll use it! I feel this is a btter attitude to have than, "Oh, because it's MS it must suck and I won't use it". But to each his own...
I don't have that IMAP problem you describe at all. I'm using the IMAP service .Mac provides.iMeowbot said:
That's nice, but it seems as though that's all they tested it with. Check the Apple support board for Tiger mail, the problems with duplicated messages, missing messages, crashes and sundry other problems with IMAP are legion.wrldwzrd89 said:
The weird thing is that in Mail 1.x they had the protocol down pretty well. It's quite a regression.
Use All 3
Why do we hate Office? Personally (and I'll admit, most of my Office experience is on Windows), it's the unpredictableness that gets to me. Having a word lose its font or its other attributes when you delete the last letter, having pictures move for no particular reason - and sometimes off of the viewable page altogether, and having it try to do my thinking for me. Talk about a waste of time. And why are the app's preferences located in 3 different places?
I use the best tool for each job. For basic word processing, the WP in AppleWorks is still the best. It opens quickly. Nothing unexpected ever happens. Nice and simple and quick to throw together what you need. Not to mention that you have the Draw and DB functionality right there if you need it for what you're doing.
That said, I do use Word if I'm typing something someone else is going to add to, if Word has a special feature that I want to make use of, or for doing outlines (as much as I hate Word trying to turn things into outlines that aren't, it does come in handy when that is what you want - and if you take the time to customize your toolbar, it's actually very nice.)
That said, I find myself turning to Pages more and more. I tossed PageMaker and used Pages for our last catalog (which I do 3 times a year). It was a joy to work with. When AppleWorks eventually breaks, Word will probably take its place as the first app I turn to for a quick and dirty WP - until Pages puts the dern font menu back in the menu bar (whose decision was that stupid font palette?)
Moving on - Excel - it's a great program. Can Apple do it better? Probably - and I can't wait for them to do it. In the mean time, I'm very happy with Excel.
Access - yuck! FileMaker wins hands down. I hope iWork brings back AW's 2-dim database (FileMaker's granddaddy). Very handy for throwing together a quick mail merge.
Outlook - I use it every day at work. I hate it. I use iCal for all of my calendaring and address booking. I have to use the Outlook calendars for our shared calendars and find them overly complicated. I also use the e-mail feature and really do miss some of Mail.app's features. Outlook may have more features, but when the few you want to use are in Mail, Address Book, and iCal, who cares?
And, let's not forget, our CEO looks better in jeans.
Why do we hate Office? Personally (and I'll admit, most of my Office experience is on Windows), it's the unpredictableness that gets to me. Having a word lose its font or its other attributes when you delete the last letter, having pictures move for no particular reason - and sometimes off of the viewable page altogether, and having it try to do my thinking for me. Talk about a waste of time. And why are the app's preferences located in 3 different places?
I use the best tool for each job. For basic word processing, the WP in AppleWorks is still the best. It opens quickly. Nothing unexpected ever happens. Nice and simple and quick to throw together what you need. Not to mention that you have the Draw and DB functionality right there if you need it for what you're doing.
That said, I do use Word if I'm typing something someone else is going to add to, if Word has a special feature that I want to make use of, or for doing outlines (as much as I hate Word trying to turn things into outlines that aren't, it does come in handy when that is what you want - and if you take the time to customize your toolbar, it's actually very nice.)
That said, I find myself turning to Pages more and more. I tossed PageMaker and used Pages for our last catalog (which I do 3 times a year). It was a joy to work with. When AppleWorks eventually breaks, Word will probably take its place as the first app I turn to for a quick and dirty WP - until Pages puts the dern font menu back in the menu bar (whose decision was that stupid font palette?)
Moving on - Excel - it's a great program. Can Apple do it better? Probably - and I can't wait for them to do it. In the mean time, I'm very happy with Excel.
Access - yuck! FileMaker wins hands down. I hope iWork brings back AW's 2-dim database (FileMaker's granddaddy). Very handy for throwing together a quick mail merge.
Outlook - I use it every day at work. I hate it. I use iCal for all of my calendaring and address booking. I have to use the Outlook calendars for our shared calendars and find them overly complicated. I also use the e-mail feature and really do miss some of Mail.app's features. Outlook may have more features, but when the few you want to use are in Mail, Address Book, and iCal, who cares?
And, let's not forget, our CEO looks better in jeans.
hate?
No, I can't say that I hate Microsoft office because it is a very useful peice of software.
No, I can't say that I hate Microsoft office because it is a very useful peice of software.
Dane D. said:
Interesting way to look at it, I guess. But considering what you can do a word processing app makes it much better than a typewriter for this day and age.
Dane D. said:
Everything? I'm not sure if this includes long papers, such as essays and what not, but I wouldn't write a long paper in a graphic design app (such as InDesign), when I could use a word processor (such as Word). I guess you could use a graphic design app do a "Word-like" things, but I wouldn't. If you're referring to things that require more "design" (brochures, etc), then yes, Word isn't the best choice app for that.
Dane D. said:
Why would someone want to print a Word file on a press? That's totally unnecessary when they could use an ordinary desktop printer. Besides even if someone wanted to print a Word file on a press they could import the text into InDesign and go from there.
I like office and could not use a mac without it. iWork is joke, bought it then sold it on ebay. Maybe I'm lazy, but office does not crash, works like it should and I can email my docs to anyone and open theirs. MS office compatibility is still the biggest concern for most new users.
Windowlicker said:Office is good as long as it works. The worst thing about it is it trying to be smarter than the user.
This is the biggest problem. I cannot stand something trying to think for me and do such a crappy job. Like MisterMr indicated on the first page (don't know how to do double quotes) you hit backspace and all your formating goes. I mean WTF. I use word (mainly because I'm a switcher and haven't had the energy to figure out how to use endnote with mellel) and I have the default font to Helvetica but when I do that wrong backspace all of a suddent Times is F***in everywhere, paragraph styles change etc. etc. God Damn I hate things trying to think for me and doing a damn crappy job.
neocell said:
Just copy the additional text you want to quote to the clipboard and remember the member's name. Then quote the first post as normal. Afterwards, simply include the second post in quote tags {QUOTE=member's name} <text> {/QUOTE} and you're good to go. (And of course use square brackets instead of curly brackets, I did that just so the preceding example wouldn't be quoted itself!)
Just make sure to get the member's name right for starters, and then make sure to accurately copy his text or else something like this might happen:
neocell said:
Pages is not Word, true. From what I have heard it does a really good job at what is was designed to do however (I'm not sure what it is however, I don't use it).
I think many people assume Pages is aimed at Word because Keynote seems directly aimed at Powerpoint. I think you can make this correlation however because they are both presentation programs that do effectively the same thing, and in this case I think Keynote is far superior to Powerpoint both in features and simplicity. I love that Apple can make a program that is not only easier to use, but can actually do more and look better at the same time as being easy, wonderful stuff.
I don't think Apple will bother with a spreadsheet app. What would the point be? Keynote was an oppurtunity to make things flashy and bright (things Apple are known for) since Powerpoint was slacking off. Spreadsheets are not pretty, they are not glamorous, and Excel is a great program, why waste time with that?
I use Word daily, Excel daily, and Keynote perhaps once a week. I love these three and that sums my slightly customized office suite.
I think many people assume Pages is aimed at Word because Keynote seems directly aimed at Powerpoint. I think you can make this correlation however because they are both presentation programs that do effectively the same thing, and in this case I think Keynote is far superior to Powerpoint both in features and simplicity. I love that Apple can make a program that is not only easier to use, but can actually do more and look better at the same time as being easy, wonderful stuff.
I don't think Apple will bother with a spreadsheet app. What would the point be? Keynote was an oppurtunity to make things flashy and bright (things Apple are known for) since Powerpoint was slacking off. Spreadsheets are not pretty, they are not glamorous, and Excel is a great program, why waste time with that?
I use Word daily, Excel daily, and Keynote perhaps once a week. I love these three and that sums my slightly customized office suite.
~Shard~ said:
You don't have to remember it or copy it from the initial thread before you click reply if you don't want to. In the 'Reply to Topic' window if you scoll down well below the reply features, it lists, in reverse order of recent first, the posts for a long while back (not sure how far, but really far usually). You can scroll down here and find what people have written which eleviates (sp?) the requirement to remember who said what.
~Shard~ has a point about being accurate though, and usually if you change someone's quote is a good idea to call it out if you are cutting something that could possibly be perceived as important.
~Shard~ also forgot to mention:
~Shard~ said:I think efoto is cooler than I am....but only sometimes
Edit: Okay, so that may have been a bad idea. You can see the danger in mis-quoting someone, and if I didn't know ~Shard~ was a good guy and probably wouldn't mind for examples sake, he could have been very pissed had I written something like that or changed his words in a given quote.
efoto said:
Yep, that works just as fine too. At some point though you have to copy and paste the second passage of text you want to quote. This is a handy way to do it for recent posts though.
Oh, and it's "alleviates", since you asked.
efoto said:
Yes, very true. The same can be said if you're quoting a really long post, especially if you have a short reply which makes things disappropriate.
In this case, just show that you've edited the post due to its length, such as:efoto said:
Kay, we should stop this before we get into trouble. But it was fun while it lasted, and hopefully helped the original poster out!
Is it just me?
Is it just me, or has noone mentioned OpenOffice.org? An open source software with a secondary version, NeoOffice, and it's FREE. Many times people come into our campus's computer store and groan at the price of Office. I say 'OpenOffice' and they rejoice.
It's not for everyone, but for those who HATE Microsoft, and don't want to be stuck with iWork, which at this point is woefully underprepared to even come near Office.. it's a solution
www.openoffice.org
Is this just a commonly known thing, or what? I would think Mac users, like Linuxers, would adore this. Check it out
Is it just me, or has noone mentioned OpenOffice.org? An open source software with a secondary version, NeoOffice, and it's FREE. Many times people come into our campus's computer store and groan at the price of Office. I say 'OpenOffice' and they rejoice.
It's not for everyone, but for those who HATE Microsoft, and don't want to be stuck with iWork, which at this point is woefully underprepared to even come near Office.. it's a solution
www.openoffice.org
Is this just a commonly known thing, or what? I would think Mac users, like Linuxers, would adore this. Check it out