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scalar009

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 1, 2021
17
12
I've been sitting in front of over 10+ different windows PCs from Asus, msi, lenovo, hp, dell, etc for the past 10 years (1080p, 4k, glossy, matte, you name it I used it). At work im sitting next to a computer 40 hours a week, I am completelly fine, I probably get a headache twice a month if ever.

In 2016 I got a macbook with retina display, well it made me nauseous , dizzy, and gave me headaches so I returned it.

I recently got a macbook air thinking maybe it was just in my head and I started having this severe eye strain and fatigue, sometimes even pain after 20 minutes

Well I decided maybe the ipad will work but nope, eye pain after 10 minutes.


I decided to just go for a surface pro 8 instead and it literally feels easier than reading paper, my eyes feel relieved.

What does apple use on their displays that causes this fatigue? I dont have this ussue with any other computer, tv, or tablet.
 

BrianBaughn

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2011
9,700
2,451
Baltimore, Maryland
What does apple use on their displays that causes this fatigue? I dont have this ussue with any other computer, tv, or tablet.
I don't know…but if there's an answer to that maybe you can use it to help a doctor diagnose what's going on.

I used to wear Merrell shoes but at some point every pair I had started hurting my toes on one foot…even new ones. Turns out I have a "Morton's Neuroma" and I found a pair of Skechers that doesn't irritate it much…less pressure on the neuroma.
 
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DeltaMac

macrumors G5
Jul 30, 2003
13,592
4,487
Delaware
And, you also posted, just a few days ago on this forum, asking if anyone else has eye fatigue with a new device that goes away after a few days of use.
So, your eye strain goes away after using a new device for a few days... (?)
 

Jorbanead

macrumors 65816
Aug 31, 2018
1,209
1,438
Apple uses LG and Samsung displays in all their products. There’s nothing inherently special about them that should cause eye strain more than any other LG/Samsung product. The only thing that comes to mind is display brightness - maybe the default brightness is higher than you’re used to on other displays? Or color temperature? Not sure.

Of course if you experience this with any display, it’s something maybe you should talk to an optometrist or doctor about?
 
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senttoschool

macrumors 68030
Nov 2, 2017
2,596
5,400
I've been sitting in front of over 10+ different windows PCs from Asus, msi, lenovo, hp, dell, etc for the past 10 years (1080p, 4k, glossy, matte, you name it I used it). At work im sitting next to a computer 40 hours a week, I am completelly fine, I probably get a headache twice a month if ever.

In 2016 I got a macbook with retina display, well it made me nauseous , dizzy, and gave me headaches so I returned it.

I recently got a macbook air thinking maybe it was just in my head and I started having this severe eye strain and fatigue, sometimes even pain after 20 minutes

Well I decided maybe the ipad will work but nope, eye pain after 10 minutes.


I decided to just go for a surface pro 8 instead and it literally feels easier than reading paper, my eyes feel relieved.

What does apple use on their displays that causes this fatigue? I dont have this ussue with any other computer, tv, or tablet.
It's probably not the display. It could be the Apple design language, animation, and colors.

I have "Reduce Motion" enabled on iOS for this exact reason. Some iOS animations make me nauseous.

Even on MacOS, I use the "Scale effect" to minimize motion.

1633582095545.png
 
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bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,695
I've been sitting in front of over 10+ different windows PCs from Asus, msi, lenovo, hp, dell, etc for the past 10 years (1080p, 4k, glossy, matte, you name it I used it). At work im sitting next to a computer 40 hours a week, I am completelly fine, I probably get a headache twice a month if ever.

In 2016 I got a macbook with retina display, well it made me nauseous , dizzy, and gave me headaches so I returned it.

I recently got a macbook air thinking maybe it was just in my head and I started having this severe eye strain and fatigue, sometimes even pain after 20 minutes

Well I decided maybe the ipad will work but nope, eye pain after 10 minutes.


I decided to just go for a surface pro 8 instead and it literally feels easier than reading paper, my eyes feel relieved.

What does apple use on their displays that causes this fatigue? I dont have this ussue with any other computer, tv, or tablet.
Text too small on screen? Windows usually defaults to larger text and it's based on monitor size. I know I have to change the text size on all my Apple devices or it causes eye strain.
 
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scalar009

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 1, 2021
17
12
Every phone I ever had was an iphone (5, 8, 11), yes the strain did go away after a few days but thats not the case with the ipads or laptops. Maybe because i dont use my phone as much.

i tried changing the font size but no help. Comparing a regular laptop to an apple display the apple seems more vivid and “intense”. Hard to explain, the light just feels stronger even at low brightness. I searched into PWM but who knows.
 
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smirking

macrumors 68040
Aug 31, 2003
3,792
3,815
Silicon Valley
For me personally, some things can trigger my motion sickness easily. For example, Half Life 2's design and colors instantly triggered me. But other Source engine games did not.

Despite playing plenty of FPS style games in the past, I could not handle anything that used the Half Life 2 engine. It totally sucked that I got hooked on Portal. I could only play in 30 minute increments. If I tried playing more, I'd get terribly ill and would have to lie down for hours.

I've heard that quite a few people have this very strong reaction to HL2.
 
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thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
7,005
3,343
I can't think of anything specific to Apple. If you have a display with that swirling effect due to cheap circuitry, that might cause some irritation. Having display brightness set too high can also lead to discomfort. I haven't experienced the former problem with Apple branded displays with the possible exception of their early LCD screens, circa 2005.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,869
35,039
Tech issues - particularly the interface with the human part - can be horrendously frustrating to troubleshoot and remedy.

Being dismissive of it is just frankly not helpful and I don't get why someone needs to pop off and tell people "their issues aren't real"

I've been through RSI and vision stuff with computers most of the last decade and I sympathize incredibly with folks having strange weird stuff.. It can literally be life altering / disabling
 
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Andropov

macrumors 6502a
May 3, 2012
746
990
Spain
The fact that he didn't single out any particular technology is what makes it unlikely to be physiological. The devices he mentioned didn't even have the same display technologies. There's nothing in common between the Apple screens he mentioned that other vendors don't have.

That doesn't mean OP is lying, just that there's no probable physical cause.
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,869
35,039
The fact that he didn't single out any particular technology is what makes it unlikely to be physiological.

Maybe he doesn't have the knowledge to even do what is being asked?

Most people don't have a clue of the various technologies in play with displays and refresh rates and all the nuance there.

There's nothing in common between the Apple screens he mentioned that other vendors don't have.

Maybe - maybe not?
I mean are we accounting for orientations where issues occurred, screen coatings, types of glass/plastic
So so many variables.

Again - I just take issue with so quickly and forcefully dismissing a users issues (I don't mean you, as I'm sure you can tell). It's just not helpful or welcoming forum behavior.
 

OUTATIME88

macrumors newbie
Sep 12, 2022
1
3
West Midlands UK
The M1 Air uses PWM for dimming and has a 60Hz flicker at high brightness. I cannot use ours for more than 15 mins without getting a headache and eyestrain. Using flicker free displays I have no issues at all.

Apple screens are horrific in terms of flicker it's something they need to address but PWM dimming is cheap to implement and extends battery life considerably at the expense of the Health of sensitive people.
 

M12020_16gb_500gb

macrumors newbie
Mar 26, 2021
24
6
Every phone I ever had was an iphone (5, 8, 11), yes the strain did go away after a few days but thats not the case with the ipads or laptops. Maybe because i dont use my phone as much.

i tried changing the font size but no help. Comparing a regular laptop to an apple display the apple seems more vivid and “intense”. Hard to explain, the light just feels stronger even at low brightness. I searched into PWM but who knows.
I have the same problem with Apple's displays. Contrasts seems to be too high and I get the exact same feeling that the display is too bright even at low brightness. Can't focus on text, it looks sharp but fuzzy at the same time. Its almost like the display is too sharp, but it's not because I have windows laptop screens and a samsung tab s7 plus which have a sharper resolution and I have absolutely no issue with them, whereas Mac displays (newer ones) give me eyestrain and make my eyes dry for days if I try to push trough o
It. I had A 2015 MBA and had no issue so it's something with the new displays.
 

DearthnVader

macrumors 68020
Dec 17, 2015
2,191
6,376
Red Springs, NC
Can't please everyone.

Some people are just averse to the macOS and Mac hardware, why they trouble themselves posting to Mac forums is beyond my understanding.

Find the medical and technical reason for your problem and ask Apple to fix it, not us, we have no control over the hardware or software.

Did you think we could come up with some magical fix for your rare condition or did you just come here to bitch?
 

M12020_16gb_500gb

macrumors newbie
Mar 26, 2021
24
6
Can't please everyone.

Some people are just averse to the macOS and Mac hardware, why they trouble themselves posting to Mac forums is beyond my understanding.

Find the medical and technical reason for your problem and ask Apple to fix it, not us, we have no control over the hardware or software.

Did you think we could come up with some magical fix for your rare condition or did you just come here to bitch?
I don’t see why it bothers you that people talk about a subject that is Apple related, on an Apple forum. Go on another thread if this one is upsetting you so much. People have the right to discuss on the subject even if it makes you rage.
Here is another thread where people have the same issue. It’s affecting more people than you think.

 

M12020_16gb_500gb

macrumors newbie
Mar 26, 2021
24
6
Every phone I ever had was an iphone (5, 8, 11), yes the strain did go away after a few days but thats not the case with the ipads or laptops. Maybe because i dont use my phone as much.

i tried changing the font size but no help. Comparing a regular laptop to an apple display the apple seems more vivid and “intense”. Hard to explain, the light just feels stronger even at low brightness. I searched into PWM but who knows.
One thing that helps for me (without fixing the problem) is to use the app "Font smoothing adjuster". It makes the text slimmer and easier to read for people who are used to Windows slim fonts. Apple used to let the user adjust the font smoothing in the settings, but removed it for whatever reason and keeps the font smoothing at the higher level.

The second thing that helps me deal with the display is to apply a blue filter in the accessibility settings. The "yellowish" tint of the display is somewhat aggravating the problem (for me, yet it seems it also does for others). So going to settings, accessibility, screen, colour filters, than choose "colour shade" and choose a dark blue for the colour filter. Adjust it to your liking with the slider to see if it helps relieve some of the eyestrain.
For me it helped, however I try to use an external display most of the time which seems to help a lot.

I hope it helps you ! Let us know if you find something that does help. I heard some find relief from using a polarized privacy filter (sold on Apple's website).
 

M12020_16gb_500gb

macrumors newbie
Mar 26, 2021
24
6
I have other way around. I feel using a mac is easier for my eyes.
I can see how it does help for some people, because Windows is usually more pixelated and squared looking, a bit unfinished I feel. I think windows handles smoothing differently.
At first I thought I would also be like you but unfortunately it seems there is something with the displays of the way they (Apple) process text or colours that gives me a hard time.
I hope in the future I find a way around it.
 

theorist9

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,756
2,892
The M1 Air uses PWM for dimming and has a 60Hz flicker at high brightness. I cannot use ours for more than 15 mins without getting a headache and eyestrain. Using flicker free displays I have no issues at all.

Apple screens are horrific in terms of flicker it's something they need to address but PWM dimming is cheap to implement and extends battery life considerably at the expense of the Health of sensitive people.
From https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...le-M1-CPU-humbles-Intel-and-AMD.508057.0.html :

1665547650593.png


Thus there is some flickering, but a PWM frequency of 117 kHz should be non-detectable. LCD panels, like this one, have extremely high PWM frequencies. PWM becomes an issue with OLED displays, since there the PWM frequencies are only 100's of Hz.
 

theorist9

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,756
2,892
It’s the p3 wide color implementation. It probably uses temporal dithering to achieve the wider color range.

I can’t look at new wide color monitors either, as I get a Headache from them as well.
Good point. Yes, it could be that. All the "billion color" Apple monitors use this to simulate 10-bit color (=>1.07 billion colors) except for the Pro Display XDR, which is natively 10-bit.

However, the OP said "I've been sitting in front of over 10+ different windows PCs from Asus, msi, lenovo, hp, dell, etc for the past 10 years (1080p, 4k, glossy, matte, you name it I used it)", and didn't have issues with any of those. But wouldn't some of those use temporal dithering (aka Frame Rate Control) as well? Or is Apple's implementation of this different enough from that of other vendors to cause it to be uniquely troublesome to sensitive viewers?

For those not familiar with this, here's an article and demo from wikipedia:
 

no0nefamous

macrumors regular
May 11, 2021
237
211
Something I have noticed is that animations and movement in macOS tend to be very choppy/low framerate compared to how fast and smooth they are in Windows 10/11. Could this be something to do with it?
 
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