Why does everyone hate the Touch Bar?

[gxxr]

So I’m curious as to why everyone seems to hate it?

Because it's gimmicky nonsense suitable for consumer devices, not "pro machines". I've been touch typing for 25 years, and suddenly I'm being forced to take my eyes away from what I actually want to be looking at to find a key I can't find by touch and that might even change position. It's a silly idea and it slows me down.
And I have to pay for the development and production of that silly idea even though I don't want it because Apple thinks it's cool.

At least the ESC-key is back. That was a real no go.

 

[Ries]

That's not entirely true.

While the TouchBar model did cost more in 2016... it also had a processor upgrade, TouchID, twice the Thunderbolt ports, faster RAM, and faster Intel graphics.

Function Key MBP 13" - $1,499
2.0GHz dual-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB of 1866MHz LPDDR3
256GB PCIe SSD
Intel Iris Graphics 540
Two Thunderbolt 3 ports

TouchBar MBP 13" - $1,799
2.9GHz dual-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.3GHz
8GB of 2133MHz LPDDR3
256GB PCIe SSD
Intel Iris Graphics 550
TouchID
Four Thunderbolt 3 ports

So again... the TouchBar model did cost more back then... but it wasn't just the TouchBar. It had other upgraded specs too.

There have always been upgraded models in previous MBPs. This one happened to also include the TouchBar.

I can't believe after 3 years I had to dig up old Apple web pages from Archive.org to disprove this false narrative that people keep spouting today.

If anyone says "the TouchBar added $300 to the price" please link this comment.

Also remember that all 13" MBP today have the TouchBar with no supposed price increase. So this entire discussion is null at this point.

Technology evolves. They put upgrades in every year without raising the price. Old technology shifts down in price, the new one doesn’t go up bar some inflation.

 

[Precursor]

Technology evolves. They put upgrades in every year without raising the price. Old technology shifts down in price, the new one doesn’t go up bar some inflation.

What's new in SSD technology that the prices keep going down but Apple still charges ridiculous amounts for the SSD options?

 

[The Mercurian]

That's not entirely true.

While the TouchBar model did cost more in 2016... it also had a processor upgrade, TouchID, twice the Thunderbolt ports, faster RAM, and faster Intel graphics.

Function Key MBP 13" - $1,499
2.0GHz dual-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB of 1866MHz LPDDR3
256GB PCIe SSD
Intel Iris Graphics 540
Two Thunderbolt 3 ports

TouchBar MBP 13" - $1,799
2.9GHz dual-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.3GHz
8GB of 2133MHz LPDDR3
256GB PCIe SSD
Intel Iris Graphics 550
TouchID
Four Thunderbolt 3 ports

So again... the TouchBar model did cost more back then... but it wasn't just the TouchBar. It had other upgraded specs too.

There have always been upgraded models in previous MBPs. This one happened to also include the TouchBar.

I can't believe after 3 years I had to dig up old Apple web pages from Archive.org to disprove this false narrative that people keep spouting today.

If anyone says "the TouchBar added $300 to the price" please link this comment.

Also remember that all 13" MBP today have the TouchBar with no supposed price increase. So this entire discussion is null at this point.

No sorry. The TouchBar was the 'killer feature' that allowed them to charge more. The problem was it was only a killer feature for light users, not for pros. Light users mostly don't care about the stuff you list above - however pros do but know that stuff wasn't worth the extra €400 they were charging in Europe for example. However light users far outweigh pros in terms of numbers, so the TouchBar IS the reason for that price increase - its the reason they could make that price increase - the other stuff was only important to a small number of people.

 

[Spectrum]

The Touch Bar model had more than just the Touch Bar, though. As I recall, the Touch Bar was packaged along with a better CPU, GPU, and two more ports. These are major differences. And in any case, these features are not things that Apple just adds up to arrive at the price of the machine. You can't expect that they would actually charge less if they got rid of the Touch Bar. They would find other ways to differentiate between the higher and lower models.

They added/introduced touchbar at the same time as:
Removing all the other useful ports (SD, USB-A, HDMI), and expecting you to drop £50-100 on new cables/dongles.
Dropping MagSafe (and thus compatibility with secondary chargers one already owns).
Increasing the base costs of the 15 inch MBPro.

Aside from the many other reasons outlined in this thread, I'm not surprised there was, and still is, lack of enthusiasm for the TB.

 

[Ries]

What's new in SSD technology that the prices keep going down but Apple still charges ridiculous amounts for the SSD options?

Apple: Greed

The rest of the world: They are able to produce higher density at same price or even new cheaper types of nand.

 

[FrankyDM]

I find it useless as well. The main problem to me is Apple's halfhearted attitude regarding the TouchBar:
If they'd really believe in it, there would already be an external smart keyboard with Touchbar, but that never happened.

I regularly switch between using the MacBook Pro on its own, and using it in clamshell mode with external monitor and keyboard. So I never invested in getting used to the TouchBar, since I knew I'd need to do without it when using the external keyboard.

Now, with Apple apparently in a mode where it's admitting/correcting some past mistakes (butterfly -> scissor keyboard, touchbar ESC key -> separate ESC key, mac pro trashcan -> cheesegrater), I was hoping they'd drop the TouchBar as well, but no such luck.

 

[airdrop]

Only those one, who are “screaming” hate it, most people don’t mind it or love it (as I do).
I found this pretty smart and useful feature.

But, this is a wrong place to ask about that, because lots of people here are only to hate or complain about things, since this is the only way they can feel important. The lack of simple appreciation and understanding in most people is horrifying to be honest.

xoxo

 

[The Mercurian]

Only those one, who are “screaming” hate it, most people don’t mind it or love it (as I do).
I found this pretty smart and useful feature.

But, this is a wrong place to ask about that, because lots of people here are only to hate or complain about things, since this is the only way they can feel important. The lack of simple appreciation and understanding in most people is horrifying to be honest.

xoxo

I don't hate it - but I rarely use it. Honestly I would prefer it wasn't there so the machine could be a bit cheaper.

 

[Jim Lahey]

I love it. I use it all the time and think it looks very cool. For me it has added value, but then I also like the butterfly keyboard, which makes me a heretic in Mac Rumors circles

 

[Dominus Mortem]

I hate it because:

A) When I'm writing I am constantly grazing the thing and turning on underline or enabling something else I don't want. If I go into preferences and turn it off, then I can't figure out how to adjust brightness until I turn it back on.

B) When I'm not writing I'm still grazing it and going into Launchpad all the time, which is also very annoying.

C) When I'm not hitting it by accident, I have no other reason to use it except to adjust volume or brightness, which I could do with physical keys easier.

I fail to see why Apple thought we wanted this. They got rid of the butterfly keyboard (which I thought felt fine to the touch, but it was loud and prone to stuck keys) and should have chucked the Touch Bar into the waste bin too. Are they running out of things to innovate and did this Touch Bar just to have something new? If so Apple, do us a favor and stop doing that. Keep what works and make that better and don't try to shove stuff down our throats we're going hate, or worse yet, actually gets in the way.

And why, oh why, did we have to lose mag-safe? Do you know how many laptops I've damaged by tripping over the power cord? Too many. Bring back mag-safe and get rid of this ridiculous Touch Bar that we DO NOT WANT.

 

[books.books]

I don’t have a MacBook myself so this is genuine curiosity. My understanding is that it changes context depending on what program you are running and can be customised as well. This sounds pretty cool to me and quite handy. So I’m curious as to why everyone seems to hate it?

Because people that label themselves as 'Pro's on MR Forums are so 'pro' that they can't imagine doing anything new or different, nor take into account anybody or anything elses perspective - including Apple's huge commercial success with TouchBar and other decisions. Isn't that right, @Queen6?
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TouchBar: useless. Why?

Because it is completely superfluous. You don't need a small band screen on the keyboard when those functions are available on the bitmap screen. Having to take your eyes off the screen, coordinate your arm/hand to hit one of the fuzzy little digital targets, and then place your arm/hand back to its starting position and then position your eyes back to the screen is not only superfluous, but egregiously flawed and an affront to any sensible usability.

on second thought, I was wrong, the TB is amazing. Much more useful than a kick stand.

 

[gxxr]

Because people that label themselves as 'Pro's on MR Forums are so 'pro' that they can't imagine doing anything new or different, nor take into account anybody or anything elses perspective - including Apple's huge commercial success with TouchBar and other decisions. Isn't that right,

Or maybe they are pros according to the actual definition - they make money with the device, so they want it to work efficiently, and not "look cool" or do something "differently" just for the sake of doing it differently (especially if "different" is less efficient).

 

[Nugget]

The lack of simple appreciation and understanding in most people is horrifying to be honest.

It’s funny. Having read your post I’ve come to the exact same conclusion. You’re demonstrating an offensive lack of appreciation and understanding when it comes to the needs and opinions of other people.

 

[Alameda]

I love the TouchID feature of the Touch Bar. I use 1Password to store all of my passwords and so I use TouchID throughout the day. But when I tried to hard-code functions to the Touch Bar, namely Play/Pause, they don’t work unless iTunes is in the foreground. That wasn’t so with the “hard” Fn keys.

I’m sure there’s a workaround or a “hack” but why? Who’s the idiot at Apple Computer who thought, “Hmm... Pause should only Pause the music if iTunes is the foreground app”?

 

[Whackman]

I have it on my new 16 inch MBP.
Aside from the touch ID fingerprint thingy (that really makes some things faster) it's completely useless.
It's MUCH faster to do the action on screen than to look FROM the screen, look for the right icon on the touchbar, press it and look back at the screen again.
I'de even go as far as saying it's an idiotic invention. Shame on Apple for not testing this properly on honest people. After one day of testing it's clear it's useless.

 

[benshive]

I love the Touchbar but that’s because I use BetterTouchTool along with GoldenChaos: https://goldenchaos.net/goldenchaos-btt.html

Thank you for sharing! Wasn't aware this sort of customization for the Touch Bar was possible. I have it installed and it looks awesome

 

[poorcody]

For the consumer/prosumer side, the touch bar is "cool." But in terms of being functional for pros, it is slower and requires looking down at the keyboard to use.

This reoccurring theme that the Touch Bar is not for Pro's is simply wrong. My group of developers makes extensive use of macros in the Touch Bar. It is quite useful and a real productivity boost if you take the time to make use of it.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I love it. I use it all the time and think it looks very cool. For me it has added value, but then I also like the butterfly keyboard, which makes me a heretic in Mac Rumors circles

You're not the only one. I love it too. Cycling tabs on safari, seeing days on Day One, volume controls, love how it is unique for most of the apps I use. I've really enjoyed it. No more staring at the F keys wondering which one is the one I really want to hit.

I also like the butterfly keyboard. I'm using it more and more now that I have an XPS tower at home (I'll get praised for that here on Macrumors these days). I work on Windows all day. Mac is my relief from work.

Love the butterfly keyboard. Because of it I went out and changed my keyboards to lower profile keyboards. I'm using Logitech's MX Keys for work/home - love it.

But yeah, the touch bar??? I use it all the time. Find it far better than the Fkeys that were there before.
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Thank you for sharing! Wasn't aware this sort of customization for the Touch Bar was possible. I have it installed and it looks awesome

Wow that does look cool - will install it when I get home tonight!

 

[Kevin Geibel]

100% agree, totally useless. I set mine up to be the expanded control strip...as close to the normal keyboard layout as possible. Before that you would have to hit the volume or display icon, then use a slider....then X out of it. It's hard to believe anyone thinks this is an upgrade. The only nice thing is the touch ID button...even that i don't use very much as my laptop unlocks with my apple watch. I hope the touch bar goes away for good...hey Apple...notice how no other computer maker has tried to "copy" this "feature"... haha, that should tell you something.

 

[fp47]

Why do we hate it?
WHY???!! **FLIP TABLE** WHYWYYWYWYWY!?!?!?!?

No Seriously... I made this account just so I can vent.

Why do I hate it? It's not because it's useless. If it was just useless I would be a happy man. Art is useless but makes me feel good. This is not art.

I am not a happy man. Not on this topic.

I am a frustrated programmer / technical trainer.

I code a lot. Also, code Live and stream and record. PRECISION is important.

Now... all of the keys I use to type are really keys. So it should not be a problem.

HOWEVER, it is. Because as you are typing & usually while live streaming, one of your fingers, usually the pinky, will happen to touch the touch bar! And guess what? it works ON TOUCH! and so.. it will simply erase code, open up strange tabs and make you look like a noob while live streaming!

And that's why I F****ng hate. Not because it's useless because it's a ****ing piece of **** that makes my life hard.

To the point that I am here, complaining to strangers on the internet!...

Also, I'm going make a hardware/software fix but hot glueing some plastic on the ****ing piece of **** and re-mapping the stupid keys. here is the fix: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23068548

That is how much I hate it. And I paid 2.6k for this machine.

Spread love not hate, don't talk about the touch bar... ****ing piece of ****!

 

[chabig]

Before that you would have to hit the volume or display icon, then use a slider....then X out of it.

That's not correct. You're overstating the difficulty. All you have to do is tap and drag. Nothing more.

 

[fp47]

........

Concluding: it's not useless it's counterproductive 90% of the time.
It's pretty. And I've made the actions stationary so now most of the time the unwanted keys I touch are the luminosity, however, all the added functionally during slide shows or whatever it does with other apps is lost. Worth it for it to not mess with my main work.

I like the fly keyboard.
however, on my previous MBP which was from 2018 with no touch bar... the keyboard was about 1mm thinner. And dust started to accumulate under the space bar... So now I'm coding and space stopped working!
This has been fixed. this MBP from 2020 is ever so slightly higher, about 1mm and it just works.. then again it's new.

 

[xaqt93]

My issue with it is that it replaces the Fn keys. If it were in addition to the Fn keys, I would embrace it. However, it changes depending on what app you're in, thus removing the ability to change the volume, change the brightness, or trigger Mission Control without looking at it every. damn. time.

I am so late to this...but the volume, and. rightness are always there no matter what app you are in. Also, you can change the icons around on the Touch Bar so you can have mission control shortcuts. Also, I have always found it easier to use the track pad gestures to get to those things...I don't think I have ever used the buttons for them.

 

[littlej2]

In the last 3 years of intensive professional macbook pro usage, I have not used it once for any purpose. The first week I tried to find something useful it could do, but failed. Others may find it useful. Below is my opinion:
1) It is completely redundant.
2) As a touch typist, I only look at the screen or what i am copying from, never the keyboard.
3) It would be far better served by proper keys. E.g. F12 for developer tools in chrome, F5 to refresh, F4 to close etc.
4) custom displays on keyboards were tried in the 1980s. They were a failure then.
5) I have heard people call it an emoji keyboard for kids. This may be a valid use for that demographic.
6) if you use an external keyboard most of the time, its a waste of money.
7) if you use the mac in clamshell mode most of the time, its a waste of money.

I see that people use them for volume and brightness. This is just as easily done from the control in the top right of the screen. Or, hear me out, a wheel for volume. One touch, instead of two. My main keyboard (which has Cherry Brown mechanical switches), has a volume wheel, and I use it all the time.

Thats just my opinion. I am sure some people find them somewhat useful. I see one person spent time creating custom buttons and putting them into his muscle memory, which is great for them. I dont have time for that. today Im using Mac, tomorrow I might be using PC, or a real keyboard with mechanical switches, who knows. Why invest time and energy trying to use something which is arguably superfluous and may not stick around?

If I had the option to buy the mb pro without, I would. And possibly save a few quid and minutes of battery life in the process. Actually, I would pay more for a macbook pro with real keys and no bar. I would pay $100 more to have real function keys and no silly display.

The fact that they had to put the ESC back shows how silly it is. As a software developer, I hit escape several times a minute, and it was frustrating to not know if you had hit it or not. I am very happy to have the escape key back on the M1. Please bring back all the other keys.