Why does Macrumors condone fake accessories?

[mcdj]

There are regularly threads here with links to and reviews of fake Apple cases, AirPods, cables, etc.

Macrumors would never permit software piracy discussion, so why is hardware design piracy ok?

 

[Weaselboy]

If you see a post you think violates the rules, please report it and we will take a look.

 

[annk]

I don't think the comparison with software piracy discussion is completely applicable here. If someone asks for or gives help in order to use media in violation of its TOS, that's a violation of our rules - it's specific and provable. However, we can't possibly investigate false products, that's a job for consumer advocate groups and/or government agencies.

Keep in mind that there are years-long lawsuits between companies like Samsung and Apple over these design patent issues that have still not been resolved. Given the fact that even courts have a hard time deciding these issues, I unfortunately don't think we can add anything on our level.

However, as @Weaselboy says, don't hesitate to report anything you feel isn't above board.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

There’s a big difference between third party accessories and products using actual fake branding to pass itself off as the real thing.

 

[RedTomato]

There are regularly threads here with links to and reviews of fake Apple cases, AirPods, cables, etc.

Give us some examples please.

 

[mcdj]

Give us some examples please.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/fake-iphone-x-leather-case.2094194/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/fake-iphone-x-silicone-case.2094110/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/iphone-x-leather-case-knockoffs.2089991/

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Have you reported those posts? They are posted by somebody not directly connected with Mac rumours and I agree fake goods should not be allowed to be promoted here. If the mods have not seen them then it doesn’t mean this site condones counterfeiting.

I’ll report them too.

 

[annk]

Speaking in general, discussions among users comparing products are not rules violations in and of themselves, and their existance doesn't mean that MacRumors is condoning specific products.

The rules indicate that new users or users with few posts should refrain from posting links, so even if a discussion seems to be within the rules we'd appreciate reports of that sort of post so we can take a look.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Speaking in general, discussions among users comparing products are not rules violations in and of themselves, and their existance doesn't mean that MacRumors is condoning specific products.

The rules indicate that new users or users with few posts should refrain from posting links, so even if a discussion seems to be within the rules we'd appreciate reports of that sort of post so we can take a look.

Hi Ann,
Are discussions concerning illegal counterfeit goods permitted then? This is very unusual as other forums threaten bans for such things, especially in the Watch and automotive communities.

I assumed this sort of promotion by posters would be highly frowned upon.

 

[AFEPPL]

Isn't fake the wrong word? the first one says "OEM third-party manufacturer accessories, please understand.", the second one says "3rd party" so i don't see the issue - its clear they are 3rd party none apple accessories and its upto the buy and the seller.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Isn't fake the wrong word? the first one says "OEM third-party manufacturer accessories, please understand.", the second one says "3rd party" so i don't see the issue - its clear they are 3rd party none apple accessories and its upto the buy and the seller.

Third party is fine as they are legal products. The links posted were Chinese fakes on eBay bearing the Apple branding and direct copies of actual Apple products. They were not homages or lookalikes made by authorised third party manufacturers.

 

[AFEPPL]

The items are listed as "third party" they claim to be nothing more and make it clear they are not from apple.
I see no issues, buyer beware and read what you are buying.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The items are listed as "third party" they claim to be nothing more and make it clear they are not from apple.
I see no issues, buyer beware and read what you are buying.

I was referring to the links in this thread showing iPhone cases with clear Apple branding on them. I haven’t seen others on here. Even if an advert claims to be ‘third party’ it doesn’t excuse that they are fake. A counterfeit Rolex is still an illegal fake even if it’s sold as a fake. I agree its buyer beware but the issue here is whether MR should allow illegal products to be advertised?

 

[AFEPPL]

It's not that simple IMO.
You can have a watch that's "similar" to a Rolex (the most counterfeited watch) but adding the logos and branding is the issue. It's not clear what the images are from/for in the links, but the branding on eBay is listed as generic - it's the same with car parts, you can have a generic part, just don't brand it.

If apple could sue, they would have by now thats for sure. you only need a resellers agreement to use the logo based on the text from apples website. So who's say they dont have one? (i dont know).
"You may not use the Apple Logo or any other Apple-owned graphic symbol, logo, or icon on or in connection with web sites, products, packaging, manuals, promotional/advertising materials, or for any other purpose except pursuant to an express written trademark license from Apple, such as a reseller agreement."

Maybe those with concerns should ask the question of eBay?
Like i say, for me, i see no issues as they are not pretending to be anything other than what they are - third party items. Others may not agree.

 

[annk]

Hi Ann,
Are discussions concerning illegal counterfeit goods permitted then? This is very unusual as other forums threaten bans for such things, especially in the Watch and automotive communities.

I assumed this sort of promotion by posters would be highly frowned upon.

There's difference between an out-and-out spam post and a discussion among bonafide users. I think we'd need to look at individual discussions, so if you're not sure, report them and we'll take a look.

 

[maflynn]

I agree its buyer beware but the issue here is whether MR should allow illegal products to be advertised?

So are you equating someone asking a question in a forum to advertising? I think that's a little off the mark in all honesty. If an established member is asking for direction, help or information on a given product, whether its OEM, fake or official, I don't think that means we are permitting the advertisment of illegal products.

The more important question is not about MacRumors allowing members to ask questions, but rather have you contacted eBay and discussed with them, why they are permitting this? If so what was their response, I would very much like know.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

So are you equating someone asking a question in a forum to advertising? I think that's a little off the mark in all honesty. If an established member is asking for direction, help or information on a given product, whether its OEM, fake or official, I don't think that means we are permitting the advertisment of illegal products.

The more important question is not about MacRumors allowing members to ask questions, but rather have you contacted eBay and discussed with them, why they are permitting this? If so what was their response, I would very much like know.

I was only seeking confirmation I wasn’t trying to offend this forum. It’s just the discussion of fake products on other forums is banned due to previous libel cases being brought against them. Most notably watchuseek and brands like Rolex. eBay do remove listings for counterfeit products and the links provided would fall under that if reported.

If it’s not frowned upon here then I have my answer. The member asking the question was obviously fine too. Apologies for my comments here, i’ll get my coat.

 

[maflynn]

I wasn’t trying to offend this forum.

No offense taken, but I think you equated discussion of a product as promoting the product which isn't really the case imo.

It’s just the discussion of fake products on other forums is banned due to previous libel cases being brought against them.

What other forums?

Most notably watchuseek and brands like Rolex. eBay do remove listings for counterfeit products and the links provided would fall under that if reported.

That's because eBay is a selling agent. Here's eBay's policy:

Items that bear a company's official brand name or logo can be listed as long as the products were lawfully made by, for, or with the consent of that company.

We don't allow replicas, counterfeit items, or unauthorized copies to be listed on eBay. Unauthorized copies may include things that are bootlegged, illegally duplicated, or pirated. These kinds of things may infringe on someone's copyright or trademark

The difference is that eBay is profiting from sales and so they could be held liable, where as a discussion forum asking a question about a given product isn't guilty of anything afaik. If you know of a statue or law that prohibits discussion of counterfeit products, please let us know

If it’s not frowned upon here then I have my answer. The member asking the question was obviously fine too. Apologies for my comments here, i’ll get my coat.

What's against the rules is promoting products, not discussing them. No need to leave, its an honest question.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

What other forums?

I mentioned a forum in the last post, ‘Watchuseek’. Even discussion of fakes is not allowed as it creates tension and deemed as recommending or promotion. I know some of the big watch manufacturers have warned Watchuseek about the discussion of counterfeits and Ernie issued a statement asking for members not to post about them. Previously they’d allowed ‘Replicas’ or ‘fakes’ to have their own threads and that got very abusive. I’ve known that rule in other places too over the years.

If MR are fine with it then I guess so am I.

 

[maflynn]

I mentioned a forum in the last post, ‘Watchuseek’.

Oh, I didn't realize that was the forum, I thought it was related to ebay pulling the counterfeits off.

 

[annk]

I mentioned a forum in the last post, ‘Watchuseek’. Even discussion of fakes is not allowed as it creates tension and deemed as recommending or promotion. I know some of the big watch manufacturers have warned Watchuseek about the discussion of counterfeits and Ernie issued a statement asking for members not to post about them. Previously they’d allowed ‘Replicas’ or ‘fakes’ to have their own threads and that got very abusive. I’ve known that rule in other places too over the years.

If MR are fine with it then I guess so am I.

As long as a discussion seems to be just that - a discussion among bonafine forum users - and no user appears to be actively promoting a counterfeit brand, the discussion is fine. If you have any doubt, though, it doesn't hurt to send a report. We don't mind checking them out, even when there turns out not to be a violation.

 

[mcdj]

If a discussion contains links to or even photos of counterfeit goods, it’s helping keep the interest up. Even if someone is not outright promoting their own goods, a link to a Chinese eBay auction or Amazon knockoff product page is indirect promotion, and is helping put money into the pockets of criminals.

If no one knew about fake goods or where to buy them, then there would be no fake goods, period. And the designers, marketers, and manufacturers of legitimate goods, and their families who count on the jobs and income from legitimate goods, would be grateful.

 

[annk]

If a discussion contains links to or even photos of counterfeit goods, it’s helping keep the interest up. Even if someone is not outright promoting their own goods, a link to a Chinese eBay auction or Amazon knockoff product page is indirect promotion, and is helping put money into the pockets of criminals.

If no one knew about fake goods or where to buy them, then there would be no fake goods, period. And the designers, marketers, and manufacturers of legitimate goods, and their families who count on the jobs and income from legitimate goods, would be grateful.

I don't disagree that counterfeit goods is a problem, but I'm not so certain that a real discussion will necessarily encourage interest in those goods. It can be argued that a real discussion can dissuade users from using knock-offs over products by Apple, Samsung etc.

As far as the rules here go, we distinguish between genuine discussion among bonafide users and promotion (which can of course be disguised as genuine discussion, but we've become adept at determining which is which through the years). Occasionally genuine discussion will include a link or image. If that link or image is necessary and integral to the discussion, it's allowed.