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Why does nobody restart their Macs?

I find that the only time my wife's windoze machine is well behaved is WHEN it has crashed! otherwise it is a big Dell wind machine that runs loud and dislikes it's own first party software!

and yes I do restart once in a while. I have too many years with Win machines and it just is a bad habit I cannot break. I run the scripts too to repair permissions and all that. and I put "her" to sleep too.
 
What people continuously forget, is that the relevance of rebooting is lost if you turn your computer off every night. Uptime bragging is just another way of saying that you're an environmental criminal and don't care about energy use. If you don't need to use the computer in your sleep - turn the damn thing off!
 
ebouwman said:
From what i've heard, the hibernate or sleep (not sure which one, or maybe both:rolleyes:) puts everything thats in the RAM onto the HD so that when it wakes up it puts all of that back onto the RAM. As opposed to apples sleep where items in the RAM are kept there but everything else shut off.

Would this be why the HD is "thrashing"?

I allways find that with the PC i have it's the least responsive after its restarted (if you don't include when it crashes:p )
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Sleep mode should technically be the same as the Mac's sleep - i.e. it should wake instantaneously. However, I only get this behaviour with XP when I close all apps before sleeping, which kinda defeats the point of using sleep! Otherwise, when it wakes, it still takes an age to get back to usefulness (oh, Outlook, when will you get around to repainting your window!)

Hibernate is the same as OS X's safe-sleep. However, there's a progress bar which appears during the resume process. Now, surely, after that the RAM's been restored? So why is the HD thrashing about even when the desktop's appeared? Hmmm.

OS X's implementation of 'hibernation' or suspend-to-disk (safe sleep) is much better thought out. Upon sleep, the machine dumps RAM to disk, but remains in the standard sleep mode. Upon resume, the machine resumes from sleep and ignores the 'just-in-case' RAM dump on the HD. However, should power fail or the battery be removed, it'll resume from the dump. So, 'hibernate' mode is basically invisible to the user.

wazgilbert said:
What people continuously forget, is that the relevance of rebooting is lost if you turn your computer off every night. Uptime bragging is just another way of saying that you're an environmental criminal and don't care about energy use. If you don't need to use the computer in your sleep - turn the damn thing off!
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Uptime bragging is pointless, unless you're trying to run a highly-available server. Also, with the energy conservation settings available, I don't see the point in leaving a machine fully-on and idle. However, sleep mode provides genuine usefulness. It suits me to be able to resume from where I was instantly. I know exactly what I had been working on. Even simple things -- the cursor's still on the same line of code in the same module that I was working on -- saves a lot of annoyance. If I need to leave the machine doing something time-consuming, I'll use a tool such as Pause to ensure the machine's put to sleep when done.
 
what are you guys talking about. my windows workstation only gets restarted when i really have to, which is four or five times a year.
same thing for the mp
 
i dont think it actually saves a whole lot of power turning off rather than putting it to sleep, as on my iBook G4 it uses up about 4% of the battery charge to switch off and then turn it back on. but if i leave it in sleep mode all night it will only lose 2-3%
 
There just isn't a need to reboot. It's sorta like...

If you woke up every morning and your hair was already neat and in place, why would you still brush/comb it?
 
IJ Reilly said:
There should be a law against analogies like this.
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:D

I never understand the "no need to" restarting and shutting down their computer thing. When I open a 500+ MB file in photoshop, everything slows down, even after I'm finished with the document and quit photoshop. A restart makes everything fast again.

I also dont get the "I put my laptop to sleep and when I took it out of my bag, it was on." thing. Shut it down and your computer won't "accidentally" turn on and you won't have a problem. It's like shutting down a computer will break it or something. :confused:
 
wazgilbert said:
What people continuously forget, is that the relevance of rebooting is lost if you turn your computer off every night. Uptime bragging is just another way of saying that you're an environmental criminal and don't care about energy use. If you don't need to use the computer in your sleep - turn the damn thing off!
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I'm with you here mate :)

Can't seen the point in leaving the machine on if it's not actually doing anything useful. (and I run my maintenance scripts at the appropriate time when I've got the machine on, just before I switch it off).
Turning it on, and waiting for it to boot isn't exactly time consuming on the Mac compared to Windows.... and even then on Windows when I'm at work, boot up time can be filled with other useful tasks like getting a cup of tea (or drink of choice)
 
I think it rather sad how much trouble some mac users will go to advoid just restarting their computer to fix a simple problem.

A while ago a friend of mine was having trouble having his mac see his iPod. He was going though all these different things trying to fix it and no luck. Both me and another friend told him after he spent 10 mins trying to figure it out to just restart his mac and the problem will be fixed he responds was "No this is not windows." and quote rude at that as well. He spends I think another day working on it before it breaks down and calls apple care. less than 5 mins into him talking with apple care he got his answer to the problem. RESTART his mac.
He did not like the "I told you so" that he rightfully deserved for how he reacted to our advice. Plus we rub it in a little that instead of getting frustated for hours on end it could of been fix in 10 mins.

Maybe that is one thing I like about the fact I came from the windows world when I use my mac. The little tricks I learned with windows and getting things to work a surpising large number of them work with dealing with OSX.

Things mac users need to rememeber is a lot of problems can be solved with a simple restart of ones computer. A lot of the time just something gets hung up or something is messed up a little and chance are it will never happen again. A simple restart would fix it and you would never see it again. Instead of spending hours trying to fix the problem just restart the computer and see if that does it. I have a general rule on any computer I work on trying to fix (Windows or OSX) is if I have not figure out what the problem was in 10-15 mins I will restart the computer and see if that removes the issue. If that does not work then yeah I go in and spend the time tracking it down but if a simple restart is all is it is going to take then yeah I will do it.

Lastly there are things that only a restart will fix on OSX. Over time the Ram becomes fragmented, Memory leaks start adding up even small ones add up over time, the swap files started getting a little to large, ect. All those things can be fix with a simple restarted.

And I hate the school PCs I am on right now. The complete lack of a spell checker is driving me nuts.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
I think it rather sad how much trouble some mac users will go to advoid just restarting their computer to fix a simple problem.

A while ago a friend of mine was having trouble having his mac see his iPod. He was going though all these different things trying to fix it and no luck. Both me and another friend told him after he spent 10 mins trying to figure it out to just restart his mac and the problem will be fixed he responds was "No this is not windows." and quote rude at that as well. He spends I think another day working on it before it breaks down and calls apple care. less than 5 mins into him talking with apple care he got his answer to the problem. RESTART his mac.
He did not like the "I told you so" that he rightfully deserved for how he reacted to our advice. Plus we rub it in a little that instead of getting frustated for hours on end it could of been fix in 10 mins.
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Yes, it's much more practical to restart in a situation like this. But I understand his point of view. A really good, stable operating system should never get itself into a position where a restart is necessary to fix a problem like this. Unfortunately, as much as Mac OS X is better than Windows, it does not come close to this goal of absolute stability. But when you've had enough of the Apple-flavored koolaid, it can be extremely frustrating when something happens that shatters your (erroneous) belief that Macs are infallible. ;)

Things mac users need to rememeber is a lot of problems can be solved with a simple restart of ones computer. A lot of the time just something gets hung up or something is messed up a little and chance are it will never happen again. A simple restart would fix it and you would never see it again. Instead of spending hours trying to fix the problem just restart the computer and see if that does it. I have a general rule on any computer I work on trying to fix (Windows or OSX) is if I have not figure out what the problem was in 10-15 mins I will restart the computer and see if that removes the issue. If that does not work then yeah I go in and spend the time tracking it down but if a simple restart is all is it is going to take then yeah I will do it.
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As someone who writes software and spends a lot of effort on trying to produce good, stable designs, having a problem go away just because of a restart is extremely frustrating to me. There's obviously a bug there, and if possible, it ought to be fixed. Fixing it could very well improve stability in other areas of the program. I usually try my best to reproduce and fully characterize problems so that I can report them to Apple. If people like me didn't do this, then everyone else would continue to have these stupid issues and have to constantly restart their computers.

Maybe it's because I remember a time when restarting was not the answer to every little problem. Today's commercial software is so complex that it's impossible to be absolutely bug free, but a number of factors contribute to make it much less stable than it could (or should) be. If you take a step back and look at it, doesn't it seem absolutely ridiculous that everyone simply expects computers to crash or encounter bugs on a routine basis? That it's no big deal when it happens? If your television or your car stopped working on a daily or weekly basis so you had to restart it, you'd want your money back, right?

As a fan of Apple products, I want to believe that their operating system is the most stable in the world. It's not, and not by a long shot. I also want to believe that their engineers and management are smart enough to design a system that correctly handles any situation that can occur, but they are not (hey Finder, if a networked drive goes away, just handle it gracefully instead of waiting forever!).

Lastly there are things that only a restart will fix on OSX. Over time the Ram becomes fragmented, Memory leaks start adding up even small ones add up over time, the swap files started getting a little to large, ect. All those things can be fix with a simple restarted.
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You could argue that a better operating system design would make all of these non-issues. Here's to Leopard and beyond. ;)
 
heehee said:
:D

I never understand the "no need to" restarting and shutting down their computer thing. When I open a 500+ MB file in photoshop, everything slows down, even after I'm finished with the document and quit photoshop. A restart makes everything fast again.

I also dont get the "I put my laptop to sleep and when I took it out of my bag, it was on." thing. Shut it down and your computer won't "accidentally" turn on and you won't have a problem. It's like shutting down a computer will break it or something. :confused:
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I've opened many large files in Photoshop and FCP, but have never had things remain slow when the files are closed. I simply don't want to wait for my computer to boot up, connect to wi-fi, connect to servers every time I sit down at my desk. Mail and my FTP programs never close. Neither does Adium. My point is not that restarting is bad, my point is that it is better sometimes to just leave the computer on. Sure, if your computer slows down (which it shouldn't), restart if that fixes it. I have nothing at all against restarting if there is a reason to do so.

As for the laptops....starting up Mac OS and then XP in parallels takes a while when you just want a quick calculation in MATLAB. When it sleeps, it takes about 2 seconds to come up (and MATLAB is already open). Again, it's just a time/convenience thing for me.
 
I run Adobe CS2 heavily each and every day in my business. I generally have at least 8-10 apps open all day. I find everything runs fine and the only time I restart is when an update requires it (usually once a week or so). 6gb ram helps, obviously!!
 
PYR0M310N said:
I have noticed something recently whilst going through the macrumours forum.

everybody seems to have a phobia of restarting their macs when they have a problem. most issues i have are solved by restarting. so i was wondering if there is some reason why people seem to like doing it
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Convenience, instant gratification, call it what you like.

I've picked up the lazy habit from Macs now. I almost never shut down my Windows machines either, just send them to sleep when not in use and they get rebooted when they crash or when Microsoft updates / App installs need a reboot. Since the Macs crash more often but Windows needs more reboot updates, it seems to average out to about the same.
 
What what?

My Intel Macs GCOD (Grey curtain of death) about once every two (lots of use) to 4 weeks (current use). I've had one BSOD since October cumulatively among the machines I use the most - Dell Precision 490, XPS 710's, XPS 700, XPS M1710, Latitude D620 and HP nx9420's. The XPS 710H2C's have replaced the 700/710's recently so it's too early to make any comments about their reliability but I've been using them the same and games crashes aside, they're equally reliable - I can sleep them in whatever state and they come back up fine.

This is of course achieved if you're dealing with a machine on a par with a current Mac - i.e. a Core (2) Duo or a Xeon 51xx machine - tested and delivered as a whole, not some creaking PC or a backyard assembly job by someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
 
Since I put the 2Gb in my Mac (gonna take it out tomorrow), I get BSODs every night, and about 2-4 GCODs every week. All because of bad ram. I also have it set to shut off every morning at 2 am so my music doesn't keep playing all night. I would set it to sleep after 2 hrs, but then it wakes me up when it goes to sleep, locking up, and making the current song go ch, ch, ch, ch..., forcing me to manually shut it down and interrupt my sleep.
 
Sesshi said:
What what?

My Intel Macs GCOD (Grey curtain of death) about once every two (lots of use) to 4 weeks (current use).
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you're doing something wrong and I cant believe you actually work on a machine that gives you kernel panics (not grey curtain of death).

kernel panics are not the same as crashing, IMO. maybe people think otherwise, but a crash to me is an app (even the finder) locking up, going "beachball of death" on me, and needing to be force quit.

honestly, if you get GCOD, its you, the hardware, or your software, not macs on the whole. and on a forum like MR, its odd you should say something so blatantly biased.
 
Sesshi said:
My Intel Macs GCOD (Grey curtain of death) about once every two (lots of use) to 4 weeks (current use).
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This isn't normal. I've not had one kernal panic on my Blackbook since I got it three months ago. I've had them in the past on my G5, but they have become nonexistent. I don't know if you can blame it on being a Rev A machine, OS bugs, or what, but it has been fixed through software updates.

Sdashiki said:
you're doing something wrong and I cant believe you actually work on a machine that gives you kernel panics (not grey curtain of death).
...
honestly, if you get GCOD, its you, the hardware, or your software, not macs on the whole. and on a forum like MR, its odd you should say something so blatantly biased.
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Gee, perhaps he's simply stating his experience? His post is not biased whatsoever. How can you suggest the user is at fault for receiving a kernel panic? If he is at fault, then Apple hasn't done a very good job writing their OS. Obviously something is wrong with the machine (maybe bad RAM) or the installation.

Sesshi: Have you tried running the hardware test?
 
i restart every week or so since memory becomes a novelty by then. i sometimes restart if i'm having a major problem. it takes me about 5 minutes to get back up to speed. i usually restart after a software update from apple.

i sometimes shut it down if i have to restart late at night and start it up the next morning.
 
Question 1: If the computer is sleeping during the night, will bittorent clients like Transmission still run and download throughout the night?

Question 2: Should I leave the MagSafe charger connected to my MBP while its sleeping? A friend told me its better to charge only when the battery is almost empty, although I've currently had it plugged in everytime I've used the computer.


Thanks in advance for your help.
 
Sdashiki said:
you're doing something wrong and I cant believe you actually work on a machine that gives you kernel panics (not grey curtain of death).

kernel panics are not the same as crashing, IMO. maybe people think otherwise, but a crash to me is an app (even the finder) locking up, going "beachball of death" on me, and needing to be force quit.

honestly, if you get GCOD, its you, the hardware, or your software, not macs on the whole. and on a forum like MR, its odd you should say something so blatantly biased.
Click to expand...

No, I don't work on a machine that gives me kernel panics. I work on two Macbook Pros (the most) and three Pros (which do more specific stuff) that gives me kernel panics. The frequency and susceptibility varies from machine to machine, but all of them have fallen prey to GCOD's to a level of frequency which I would, given the behaviour of my Windows machines over the last year, consider excessive.

Yes, like in Windows GCOD's are very frequently hardware issues - but I have had GCOD's on almost brand new machines. My latest MBP, the 15" 2.33 C2D gave me a GCOD before I'd really started putting on the bulk of my apps. And certainly on the MBP's we aren't talking fancy apps or fancy add-ons. I tell you where I get the most GCOD's by far - plugging and unplugging external storage, and external (Apple) monitors. Something that one does rather a lot on laptops destined for use as transportable desktops. And the reasons for the GCOD's aren't limited to just those instances.

KP's aside, there's also the occasional beachballs of death going on too, and Finder lockups aren't totally uncommon. More common than an Explorer crash for example - something I had a lot more on some previous Windows machines with the crappy prev-gen P4's / Xeons, but just don't get anywhere near as much since I switched to Athlon FX / Opteron and (even less) now the Core / 51xx Xeon CPU's.

I'm typing this on the main machine I use for my 'frivolous stuff' now, the Dell XPS 710 H2C. Despite running a Core 2 Quad at 20% over the marked speed of the chip (out of the factory), and running two 8800GTX's, I have a system that hasn't BSOD'd on me since delivery. And the only times it has hung are in games, especially the notorious BF2. Exactly the same experience extends to the previous XPS 700 and 710 systems.

I don't care if Windows crashes more on your three-year old Dell running probably the worst CPU that Intel ever produced. That is irrelevant. If you're going to compare and contrast, compare your Macbook Pro with an HP nx9420. If you're going to compare and contrast, compare your Mac Pro with a Dell Precision 690. But the kicker? An overclocked Core Quad running SLI on the newest GPU out there in Windows is more reliable than a Mac Pro with a single X1900 running OS X. That is my experience.
 
JSub said:
Question 1: If the computer is sleeping during the night, will bittorent clients like Transmission still run and download throughout the night?

Question 2: Should I leave the MagSafe charger connected to my MBP while its sleeping? A friend told me its better to charge only when the battery is almost empty, although I've currently had it plugged in everytime I've used the computer.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Click to expand...


1. No. It's asleep.

2. Yes. You should cycle your battery every now and again, but constantly running it down and recharging is not that great an idea.
 
I shut my Mac down and disconnect the power every night before I go to bed.

Don't know if that is right or wrong, but it saves electricity and noise pollution in my house.

I have been doing this for 3 years now and have not had any trouble.
 
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