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glitch44

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 28, 2006
1,116
148
Why doesn't the AirPort Extreme have QoS (Quality of Service)?

This seems like a basic thing that most routers offer now because of VOIP. If not as a basic setting, at least as a buried, advanced setting that people can tinker with if they have to.
 

glitch44

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 28, 2006
1,116
148
Why should it have it?

If you use VOIP (Voice Over Internet Protocol) on a network, the voice connection can have delays/ echoes/ break up if another connection sucks up the bandwidth. QoS gives priority to the VOIP traffic (or whichever traffic you chose) over something of less importance, like surfing, gaming, etc. It's a pretty standard feature in most routers.
 

ZilogZ80

macrumors 6502a
Aug 5, 2010
551
0
Because anyone who needs QoS shouldn't really be using Apple networking products in the first place.

Very true. Airport Extreme is a great bit of kit for your home network, but for only slightly more money you can get a proper business-class router with a lot more features e.g. Draytek.
 

glitch44

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 28, 2006
1,116
148
Because anyone who needs QoS shouldn't really be using Apple networking products in the first place.

Can you explain the logic behind this statement? Is this "It's not a bug, it's a feature" thinking?

I have a home network of 2 Apple computers, 1 VOIP device, and a Roku box. I shouldn't need a business class router just to prioritize the MAC address traffic of one box over the other. It's not even a hardware fix, it's just a change in firmware.
 

MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,709
69
USA
Can you explain the logic behind this statement? Is this "It's not a bug, it's a feature" thinking?

I have a home network of 2 Apple computers, 1 VOIP device, and a Roku box. I shouldn't need a business class router just to prioritize the MAC address traffic of one box over the other. It's not even a hardware fix, it's just a change in firmware.
It appears that you demands are driven by your imagination rather than you needs. What makes you think you need to prioritize anything? Are you trying to run everything on the lowest tier DSL? All of your devices each simultaneously going full bore cannot swamp an Airport Extreme.
 

b-rad g

macrumors 6502a
Jun 29, 2010
895
1
I use my MagicJack hooked to my Mini with a Airport Extreme and an Express and call quality is near perfect. No echoes, static or anything.
 

glitch44

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 28, 2006
1,116
148
It appears that you demands are driven by your imagination rather than you needs. What makes you think you need to prioritize anything? Are you trying to run everything on the lowest tier DSL? All of your devices each simultaneously going full bore cannot swamp an Airport Extreme.

If by "imagination" you mean "I've actually experienced this", then yes. My connection is 23 down/ 3 up and I'm using the G.711u codec through a Linksys/Cisco PAP2T. Without QoS, drop outs are introduced into the VOIP connection as latency is crucial.

Do you run VOIP on an airport extreme?
 
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Terrador

macrumors regular
Aug 22, 2008
130
0
What about those who don't use VoIP? I could really use QoS on my router right now to delegate bandwidth to my devices on the network. For example, if I'm playing Xbox Live and my wife decides to upload 500MB worth of pictures to facebook (not uncommon, believe it or not) it automatically turns my connection to absolute CRAP because for some reason her picture upload takes priority over my connection.

I usually get about 12 Mbps down and 1Mbps up with my connection, it would be awesome if I could RESERVE some of that for my Xbox or other volatile connections so that any other requests on the network wouldnt "steal" bandwidth from it.
 

MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,709
69
USA
If by "imagination" you mean "I've actually experienced this", then yes. My connection is 23 down/ 3 up and I'm using the G.711u codec through a Linksys/Cisco PAP2T. Without QoS, drop outs are introduced into the VOIP connection as latency is crucial.

Do you run VOIP on an airport extreme?
23 what? 3 what? Whatever it is means someone who knows what they are doing diagnoses the problem. It is truly amazing the number of "engineers" on this forum who prescribe remedies for networking maladies that they have no clue about.
 

miles01110

macrumors Core
Jul 24, 2006
19,260
36
The Ivory Tower (I'm not coming down)
Can you explain the logic behind this statement? Is this "It's not a bug, it's a feature" thinking?

I have a home network of 2 Apple computers, 1 VOIP device, and a Roku box. I shouldn't need a business class router just to prioritize the MAC address traffic of one box over the other. It's not even a hardware fix, it's just a change in firmware.

Apple devices in general are geared to the lowest common denominator. Apple is kind enough to make the decision for you how your network should behave. If you disagree, you should not buy Apple networking equipment. The normal user does not even know what QoS stands for, much less why they'd need it.
 

glitch44

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 28, 2006
1,116
148
23 what? 3 what? Whatever it is means someone who knows what they are doing diagnoses the problem. It is truly amazing the number of "engineers" on this forum who prescribe remedies for networking maladies that they have no clue about.

23 Mbps (2.88 MB/s) download, 3 Mbps (0.38 MB/s) upload. I thought Mbps was the standard unit used when discussing bandwidth of home connections, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Never claimed I was an engineer or an expert. However I have had trouble with an airport extreme that's been solved by moving to an older, non-Apple wireless-G router that has QoS. And wireless-N routers comparable to the airport extreme (like the Netgear WNDR3700 and the D-Link DIR-655) do have QoS built into the stock firmware, so it's clearly something that's useful to some consumers.

You never answered my question - do you have any experience with VOIP or anything constructive to add? I'm not sure why, but you seem to be going out of your way to be rather rude and condescending. If you're an expert and have anything to add, I'd love to get your help.
 
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glitch44

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 28, 2006
1,116
148
Apple devices in general are geared to the lowest common denominator. Apple is kind enough to make the decision for you how your network should behave. If you disagree, you should not buy Apple networking equipment. The normal user does not even know what QoS stands for, much less why they'd need it.

True, but I'd argue the normal user doesn't know what WPA2 is or why it's better than WEP. I'm sure there's an Apple user friendly way to implement QoS or at least have it buried in an advanced setting.
 

trip1ex

macrumors 68030
Jan 10, 2008
2,834
1,401
yeah was wondering if this would help reduce latency for gaming if the family has a few Netflix streams going on at same time while wife is surfing/facebooking.

Not sure my connection is being affected or not. Sometimes it seems like i'm a step behind.

But actually not currently using my AEBS anyway. Too lazy to attach it to my FIOS router which works fine. FIOS probably has QoS on it. I guess I need to dig up the login/passwd.
 

KritterMan

macrumors newbie
Mar 18, 2011
1
0
Vote +1 for QOS on Airport Extreme

I was unable to use Ooma VOIP behind an Apple Airport Extreme. It was UN-USE-ABLE as I experienced significant delay and distortion. Luckily I had a Linksys router sitting around, was able to load up DD-WRT, enable QOS, and now my Ooma works like a champ. My internet connection tests at 20+ Mb Down and 1.5+ Mb Up with very low latency. For whatever reason, the prioritization helps. Unfotunately I now have an Airport Express behind the Linksys which has introduced other challenges such as AirPlay not working consistently. (I'm not double-nating) Adding QOS to the Apple Airport Extreme would really make things easier for me! :(
 

glitch44

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 28, 2006
1,116
148
I was unable to use Ooma VOIP behind an Apple Airport Extreme. It was UN-USE-ABLE as I experienced significant delay and distortion. Luckily I had a Linksys router sitting around, was able to load up DD-WRT, enable QOS, and now my Ooma works like a champ. My internet connection tests at 20+ Mb Down and 1.5+ Mb Up with very low latency. For whatever reason, the prioritization helps. Unfotunately I now have an Airport Express behind the Linksys which has introduced other challenges such as AirPlay not working consistently. (I'm not double-nating) Adding QOS to the Apple Airport Extreme would really make things easier for me! :(

I'm curious-- did you try putting the Ooma in front of the Airport Extreme so it handles QoS and putting the Airport into bridge mode? I've read elsewhere people having success with that, although I wondered if they took a performance hit or lost features in bridge mode (AFAIK you can't have a guess network in bridge mode).
 

dyn

macrumors 68030
Aug 8, 2009
2,708
387
.nl
If by "imagination" you mean "I've actually experienced this", then yes. My connection is 23 down/ 3 up and I'm using the G.711u codec through a Linksys/Cisco PAP2T. Without QoS, drop outs are introduced into the VOIP connection as latency is crucial.
Since that PAP2T has numerous issues it is most likely this one is acting up. Using normal VoIP phones will give you better performance. Most other VoIP issues are being caused by slow internet connections, misconfigurations, using wireless (latency too high, slow connections, etc.), problems with the telco, hardware defect, etc. QoS will not resolve any of these problems although it can make the situation a little bit better with certain slow internet connections.

Do you run VOIP on an airport extreme?
On a slower device: the Linksys WRT54GL and I've used it with dd-wrt and tomato (which is what I'm currently using). There were no issues with 3 phones and 1 fax when streaming audio and surfing the web in a business setting. I've had it with two connections: 20 Mbit adsl which unfortunately does not go past the 12 Mbit downstream (and about 800~1000 kbit upstream) and later on a 10 Mbit glass fibre connection (10 up AND down).

Users did not notice any differences. The only thing they complained about was 1 phone not working properly (it was broken and replaced) and the fax (fax with VoIP is troublesome). I once used QoS and it had a very negative effect on VoIP and the connection speed. The device was simply too slow causing network slowdowns which in turn caused problems with VoIP and anything else.

People who need QoS are people with large and complex networks and/or very slow internet connections (do not overlook upload speed!). If you want to use QoS you also need a very fast device since QoS will have a very big performance hit on the device. You also have to have some networking knowledge since you need to configure QoS. If you don't have good knowledge you can achieve the exact opposite: things becoming even slower. None of these things can be found in the average consumer home which is why it is in professional gear and not in most consumer gear.
 

kolax

macrumors G3
Mar 20, 2007
9,181
115
I'm also wishing Apple would provide QoS to the Airport Extreme.

Some of the responses have annoyed me in this thread. QoS allows you to divide bandwidth. If you are the sole user of your WiFi, then you have no problem. But if you live with other people who use the same WiFi, then the best way to allow everyone reliable internet is to use QoS.

My flatmate downloads and uploads stuff as much as I do. Trouble is, if one of us is doing that, it hogs all the bandwidth. QoS would allow me to divide the available bandwidth between us equally, so no matter what my flatmate is doing, my internet speeds are unaffected.

I don't see why it is a big deal for Apple to include this. It isn't a "business only" feature at all, and many households would benefit from fair bandwidth sharing of devices.
 

Weaselboy

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 23, 2005
33,981
15,274
California
23 Mbps (2.88 MB/s) download, 3 Mbps (0.38 MB/s) upload. I thought Mbps was the standard unit used when discussing bandwidth of home connections, but maybe I'm mistaken.

You are not mistaken... everybody in the thread knew exactly what you meant.
 

PeckhamBog

macrumors 6502
Nov 28, 2007
272
2
London
Sorry for coming into this thread as a 'near no knowledge' user; is QoS a hardware, firmware, or software feature?
 
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